Injury Report: Dustin Byfuglien (Warning in OP)

[Jetfaninflorida]

Based on that timeline though no real official LOA would ever have been granted right. Despite what was reported to the media that would mean that the team just waited the maximum allowed time before denying his request for leave and putting him under suspension.

The way the times line up here looks very compelling but the fact that we haven't heard anything from the player / agent denying the events as they've been portrayed by the media so far has me less convinced.

The bolded question is key. Was he actually granted the LOA as publically stated by the Jets, or did they just run out the clock and suspend him?

By stating in the press that they gave him an LOA, he could certainly make the case that his request was granted.

See how tricky these things can be.

 

[cbcwpg]

The bolded question is key. Was he actually granted the LOA as publically stated by the Jets, or did they just run out the clock and suspend him?

By stating in the press that they gave him an LOA, he could certainly make the case that his request was granted.

See how tricky these things can be.

What's tricky to me is...

I searched thru the CBA and the only reference that I could find to a LOA or the word "absent" in the CBA is to do with training camps. There does not seem to be any mention of a LOA or "absent" during the regular season.

So, just wondering, did Buff's LOA during training camp have to become a suspension once the regular season starts? But then, what does it really mean when a player takes a LOA during the season for say a family matter? Is a LOA during the season just something agreed upon between the player and the team? Or is the implied rules for training camp just assumed to carry over into the season?

Just find it strange ( again, maybe I missed it ) that there is no mention of a LOA during the season in the CBA.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

I went back and re-read Chevys statement to the press. He never called it a leave of absence, he referred to personal time. It was uniformly reported in the press as an LOA, but may never have been one.

"I met with Buff (Thursday) and we had some conversations, and in the conversations he indicated that he needed some personal time," Jets general manager Kevin Cheveldayoff said. "We certainly granted it. Dustin is a big part of our family here. There's always an open policy for discussions. We always care about people of our family. One thing I will say, health-wise everything is good for him and his family. But again, from our standpoint, we support Dustin and look forward to the resolution."


Is there anything in the CBA about 'personal time'?

Apparently there was a tweet from the team with the announcement. Does anyone have that to see if they called it an LOA or not?

FOUND IT: It was announced on Twitter as a personal leave of absence by the winnipeg jets twitter feed. He was granted an LOA on or before the 13th. At least the Jets claimed that he had been granted an LOA.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

 

[BatVader]

I went back and re-read Chevys statement to the press. He never called it a leave of absence, he referred to personal time. It was uniformly reported in the press as an LOA, but may never have been one.

"I met with Buff (Thursday) and we had some conversations, and in the conversations he indicated that he needed some personal time," Jets general manager Kevin Cheveldayoff said. "We certainly granted it. Dustin is a big part of our family here. There's always an open policy for discussions. We always care about people of our family. One thing I will say, health-wise everything is good for him and his family. But again, from our standpoint, we support Dustin and look forward to the resolution."


Is there anything in the CBA about 'personal time'?

Apparently there was a tweet from the team with the announcement. Does anyone have that to see if they called it an LOA or not?

FOUND IT: It was announced on Twitter as a personal leave of absence by the winnipeg jets twitter feed. He was granted an LOA on or before the 13th. At least the Jets claimed that he had been granted an LOA.

Have you not read this post from Arthur Fonzarelli????

This is why (b) (4) makes much more sense as the timeline perfectly coincides with what occurred in the media releases.

Buff came to camp, asked for a LOA and was informed this had to be done in writing within 5 days. This all begins first thing in the morning at camp and is released to the media by 10am.
View attachment 281205

5 days ends and takes us to the 18th. The act of Buff's writing is leaked to the media and Bob MacKenzie addresses the topic that very morning exactly 5 days to the hour (within 24 minutes to be precise) of when this all began on Friday the 13th.
View attachment 281207

The club now has 48 hours to respond and likely do so immediately causing the "cure period" to begin on the 19th giving Byfuglien until the 21st to "cure". He appeals to Maurice on the 20th who attempts to mediateView attachment 281209

Nothing comes of it. The cure period is already 24 hours in and ends on the 21st with Buff suspended.
View attachment 281211

Thanks to rotoworld for their work capturing the NHL's daily transactions, making this easy to describe visually.

https://www.rotoworld.com/hockey/nhl/player/23671/dustin-byfuglien/news

 

[mouser]

What's tricky to me is...

I searched thru the CBA and the only reference that I could find to a LOA or the word "absent" in the CBA is to do with training camps. There does not seem to be any mention of a LOA or "absent" during the regular season.

So, just wondering, did Buff's LOA during training camp have to become a suspension once the regular season starts? But then, what does it really mean when a player takes a LOA during the season for say a family matter? Is a LOA during the season just something agreed upon between the player and the team? Or is the implied rules for training camp just assumed to carry over into the season?

Just find it strange ( again, maybe I missed it ) that there is no mention of a LOA during the season in the CBA.

Permission to be absent during training camp does not automatically expire and require the player to be suspended when the regular season starts. The CBA doesn’t explain it as explicitly as it could, but does include illustrations where the player has permission to be absent and doesn’t return until well into the regular season without a suspension.

It’s possible Winnipeg granted a limited permission to Buff to be absent from training camp up until such and such date. It’s also possible there was some sort of verbal representation or expectation by one party or the other over the absence that wasn’t formally documented and implemented.

Players taking time off for family matters is covered under 16.12 “Non-Roster Player”. Teams can get the roster slot back but the player isn’t remove from the cap. Functionally the same as IR without the minimum days/games missed requirement.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

Based on that timeline though no real official LOA would ever have been granted right. Despite what was reported to the media that would mean that the team just waited the maximum allowed time before denying his request for leave and putting him under suspension.

The way the times line up here looks very compelling but the fact that we haven't heard anything from the player / agent denying the events as they've been portrayed by the media so far has me less convinced.

If it this went down as I have suggested it was Buff that dragged it out the full five days. All accounts are the first mention Buff makes for a LOA occurs on the morning of the 13th.

-Buff is then told he 5 days to present a written request.
-Once he does (the 18th) the team must respond yes or no within 48 hours. The team likely says no on the 19th
-Once told no, Buff has an additional 48 hours to report or face suspension. He is suspended on the 21st.

 

[JetsUK]

Some great research here.

What’s the skinny on how all this might shake out now?

 

[Guardian17]

 

[Analyst365]

"he believes", "but he’s heard rumors", "he doesn’t know for sure".

Great stuff.

 

[Larabee]

Not a Friedman fan. He’s so pro Leafs

 

[Larabee]

Jets should not be cap strapped with Buff’s situation. They need to play the LTIR game with cap relief. Buff could easily go on LTIR for the rest of the year.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

If it this went down as I have suggested it was Buff that dragged it out the full five days. All accounts are the first mention Buff makes for a LOA occurs on the morning of the 13th.

-Buff is then told he 5 days to present a written request.
-Once he does (the 18th) the team must respond yes or no within 48 hours. The team likely says no on the 19th
-Once told no, Buff has an additional 48 hours to report or face suspension. He is suspended on the 21st.

Fonzi. If I am reading this correctly, this credible theory suggests that Buf was never granted the LOA. That's what you are suggesting here, correct?

 

[Whileee]

Fonzi. If I am reading this correctly, this credible theory suggests that Buf was never granted the LOA. That's what you are suggesting here, correct?

Jets simply didn't have the cap space to put Buff on an LOA and replace him in the lineup. They could have put him on LTIR but he would need to report to camp, get evaluated, and then placed on injury reserve. He didn't ever report to the Jets.

 

[Tommigun]

I remember how this went down very clearly.
Buff was given a LOA. Enough time passed and he was suspended. A LOA doesn’t last for an eternity.

 

[Jet]

Not a Friedman fan. He’s so pro Leafs

He knows where his bread is buttered.

 

[Jet]

I am all for Dustin Byfuglien taking the time he needs to sort out whatever the issue is. I am also not going to pass judgement before I actually know what's going on. However, it's pretty clear now that he did not 'retire' as if he did, none of this would at all be germaine.

If we missed out on Faulk because of this nonsense I will be pretty angry with Byfuglien if it turns out to be his doing for this whole mess.

Imagine what Faulk would do for our top 4? It would push Poolman out of the top 4 and take 20+ minutes away from our glut of bottom pair guys, giving them more favorable matchups.

Poolman has struggled, but I find it very hard to fault a guy who was in the AHL last year now expected to play the best matchups on a nightly basis. That's a lot of pressure and way too much to expect of him.

 

[scelaton]

I am all for Dustin Byfuglien taking the time he needs to sort out whatever the issue is. I am also not going to pass judgement before I actually know what's going on. However, it's pretty clear now that he did not 'retire' as if he did, none of this would at all be germaine.

If we missed out on Faulk because of this nonsense I will be pretty angry with Byfuglien if it turns out to be his doing for this whole mess.

Imagine what Faulk would do for our top 4? It would push Poolman out of the top 4 and take 20+ minutes away from our glut of bottom pair guys, giving them more favorable matchups.

Poolman has struggled, but I find it very hard to fault a guy who was in the AHL last year now expected to play the best matchups on a nightly basis. That's a lot of pressure and way too much to expect of him.

I like the first bold better than the the second.
It's pretty clear that Buff made some errors in judgement/communication, needs time to sort things out and there will be some negative consequences to the team for that.
In the big picture, however, respecting Buff's overall contribution to the team and making sure he is honoured as an integral part of Jets 2.0 history is the most important thing. All the other stuff is noise and will be forgotten in the fullness of time.

 

[Jet]

I like the first bold better than the the second.
It's pretty clear that Buff made some errors in judgement/communication, needs time to sort things out and there will be some negative consequences to the team for that.

In the big picture, however, respecting Buff's overall contribution to the team and making sure he is a respected part of Jets history is the most important thing. All the other stuff is noise and will be forgotten in the fullness of time.

I don't deny that - but Buff has always shown himself to be 'selfish'. He played very selfishly in the first 5 or so seasons of Jets 2.0 and I berated him endlessly for that (I'm sure you remember ). However, he seemed to take a team first approach the past few seasons and became the player the Jets really needed him to be.

Again, I am not going to judge Buff right now because I don't really know what happened. However, if he was being selfish and it handcuffed the team all season, I will be pissed. I think it will tarnish his legend with the Jets somewhat.

 

[Ukkosenjumala]

I don't know if getting Buff back at this point is even beneficial long term, the new defence core and the upcoming prospects are having to learn to swim fast and having to assume more responsibility is propably beneficial for their psyche and development. We're looking at a guy who's 34 and heavy set, with injuries who's missed alot of time and the inevitability of his retirement or decline is propably in the not-so distant future.

 

[scelaton]

I don't deny that - but Buff has always shown himself to be 'selfish'. He played very selfishly in the first 5 or so seasons of Jets 2.0 and I berated him endlessly for that (I'm sure you remember ). However, he seemed to take a team first approach the past few seasons and became the player the Jets really needed him to be.

Again, I am not going to judge Buff right now because I don't really know what happened. However, if he was being selfish and it handcuffed the team all season, I will be pissed. I think it will tarnish his legend with the Jets somewhat.

I do remember
I'd describe Buff more as a 'free spirit' than selfish--no question there is an element of the latter in the former.
People are attracted to the Buffs of the world and their individualism, but they can cause no end of havoc for the same reason.

 

[Jets 31]

I don't know if getting Buff back at this point is even beneficial long term, the new defence core and the upcoming prospects are having to learn to swim fast and having to assume more responsibility is propably beneficial for their psyche and development. We're looking at a guy who's 34 and heavy set, with injuries who's missed alot of time and the inevitability of his retirement or decline is propably in the not-so distant future.

Even with all those flaws he would be one of our best defenseman if he returned to the lineup . Just having Buff dressed and on the bench teams would think twice about taking runs at our star players . I just want this resolved , the sooner the better .

 

[Ukkosenjumala]

Even with all those flaws he would be one of our best defenseman if he returned to the lineup . Just having Buff dressed and on the bench teams would think twice about taking runs at our star players . I just want this resolved , the sooner the better .

Yeah I agree he's still the best or one of the best on the team and he lifts everyone's mojo on the team. Just talking long term, having the younger guys carry a bigger load for the team is going to improve them and if not, expose them. You wouldn't see Pionk or Morrisey on the PP if Buff was on the team for example so they're gaining experience right now that they wouldn't otherwise.

 

[Jets 31]

Yeah I agree he's still the best or one of the best on the team and he lifts everyone's mojo on the team. Just talking long term, having the younger guys carry a bigger load for the team is going to improve them and if not, expose them. You wouldn't see Pionk or Morrisey on the PP if Buff was on the team for example so they're gaining experience right now that they wouldn't otherwise.

Very true , glass half full i guess .

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

Fonzi. If I am reading this correctly, this credible theory suggests that Buf was never granted the LOA. That's what you are suggesting here, correct?

In a manner of speaking and for legal reasons it could be perceived as such.

I'm certain Dustin was permitted to be briefly absent but the CBA provides timeframes for both the team and player to follow.

In all likelihood Chevy has a strong understanding of the CBA & Dustin must have put some level of research into this before walking in the door and dropping this on the organization.

But for a LOA to be granted immediately upon his request, before the lawyers & capologist could be spoken to on the matter seems illogical.

Only time will tell if the team formally gave him a LOA or whether the term was loosely used when speaking with the media in an attempt to underscore the matter at hand.