Player Discussion Duncan Keith

[Oilhawks]

Yup, so 3 of 4 listed, are soft and expensive. Wonder why are team d sucks. Miserable fail, from management. Fire Holland real quick.

Trade everyone for coke machines, sounds brilliant

 

[SaltNPeca]

...
At this point its reminding me of when the Oilers had Jacques Plante in net and he contractually would only play home games if he was ever in the lineup at all.

One of the more interesting things I've read today (read his wikipedia), thanks lol

 

[Forgot About Drai]

View attachment 500732

I mean is this a surprise to anyone? he legit was one of the worst dmen in the league last year by a lot of metrics. Pretty easy too improve on that on a better team* and playing a reduced role.

Regardless, if Keith is on our top 4 then we are not a contending team imo + whatever value he is giving us is not worth the cap hit + assets. He's been a lot better then I thought he would be and honestly I would love to have him as #5 who can fill into the #4 D role at a reduced cap hit, but the best course of action for the Oil would be if he retired next season. Though I doubt that will happen.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Needs to be mentioned that Keith isn't just here for his stat line. He's here to add a dimension of stability in the room and on the bench and a bit of leadership that can be missing from a still somewhat young leadership core. To wit Keith was showing up in post game availabilities during the losing string. made a lot of good comments. He's been supportive of the struggling Koskinen and also helped raise a need to support the struggling goalies. Keith is more involved in that, on the ice than any of our D, making sure to tap pads after a save, to talk to the goalies etc. The Oilers as a team under duress have often been guilty of not doing these little things to support each other. Maturity is needed on the bench and Keith knows what it takes. I don't like the contract terms but part of his worth is what he brings to a room in stability.

Keith, if you watch Saturdays game was more involved than anybody in keeping Koskinen in the fight and reassuring him on ice. Keith also supported the goaltending in comments and set the tone for Drai to do the same in the post game availability.

Last season I think it possible this team would have not pulled out this game. Keith is reminding that regardless of performances and stats you have to keep supporting whatever goalie you have on the ice. You have to.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Needs to be mentioned that Keith isn't just here for his stat line. He's here to add a dimension of stability in the room and on the bench and a bit of leadership that can be missing from a still somewhat young leadership core. To wit Keith was showing up in post game availabilities during the losing string. made a lot of good comments. He's been supportive of the struggling Koskinen and also helped raise a need to support the struggling goalies. Keith is more involved in that, on the ice than any of our D, making sure to tap pads after a save, to talk to the goalies etc. The Oilers as a team under duress have often been guilty of not doing these little things to support each other. Maturity is needed on the bench and Keith knows what it takes. I don't like the contract terms but part of his worth is what he brings to a room in stability.

Keith, if you watch Saturdays game was more involved than anybody in keeping Koskinen in the fight and reassuring him on ice. Keith also supported the goaltending in comments and set the tone for Drai to do the same in the post game availability.

Last season I think it possible this team would have not pulled out this game. Keith is reminding that regardless of performances and stats you have to keep supporting whatever goalie you have on the ice. You have to.

Great post

 

[bucks_oil]

Needs to be mentioned that Keith isn't just here for his stat line. He's here to add a dimension of stability in the room and on the bench and a bit of leadership that can be missing from a still somewhat young leadership core. To wit Keith was showing up in post game availabilities during the losing string. made a lot of good comments. He's been supportive of the struggling Koskinen and also helped raise a need to support the struggling goalies. Keith is more involved in that, on the ice than any of our D, making sure to tap pads after a save, to talk to the goalies etc. The Oilers as a team under duress have often been guilty of not doing these little things to support each other. Maturity is needed on the bench and Keith knows what it takes. I don't like the contract terms but part of his worth is what he brings to a room in stability.

Keith, if you watch Saturdays game was more involved than anybody in keeping Koskinen in the fight and reassuring him on ice. Keith also supported the goaltending in comments and set the tone for Drai to do the same in the post game availability.

Last season I think it possible this team would have not pulled out this game. Keith is reminding that regardless of performances and stats you have to keep supporting whatever goalie you have on the ice. You have to.

Agree.

And if we can manage to add some players at the deadline and gain back some ground (can you believe we are only at game 37 and are chasing teams that have played 43 games!), then he can be a big value in a 7 game series, where we have recently not shown an ability to close the book on one game and bring a new narrative in the next.

I was a big supporter of Keith's this summer. It hasn't worked out wonderfully so far, but that doesn't mean it can't still.

Kane, Chiarot and a young goalie... that could make us a contender within a month. Honestly.

Kane McD Kassian
Hyman Drai Yama
FOEGELE Nuge Pulju EDIT: Forgot Foegele!
Shore/Holloway McLeod Scevior

Nurse Bouchard
Chariot Barrie
Keith Ceci

Young Goalie
Koski-Smith

 

[Drivesaitl]

Agree.

And if we can manage to add some players at the deadline and gain back some ground (can you believe we are only at game 37 and are chasing teams that have played 43 games!), then he can be a big value in a 7 game series, where we have recently not shown an ability to close the book on one game and bring a new narrative in the next.

I was a big supporter of Keith's this summer. It hasn't worked out wonderfully so far, but that doesn't mean it can't still.

Kane, Chiarot and a young goalie... that could make us a contender within a month. Honestly.

Kane McD Kassian
Hyman Drai Yama
Holloway Nuge Pulju
Shore McLeod Scevior

Nurse Bouchard
Chariot Barrie
Keith Ceci

Young Goalie
Koski-Smith

It takes time for a new player to become part of a leadership core on a new club. Duncan Keith is probably wise enough to have taken his time doing that, and he's an astute guy. Keith knows what kind of alphas Leon, Connor, Nurse, even Smith are. So that he's settled into leadership here slowly. Very wise.

Of note, the oft regarded best leader in hockey, Messier, made several mistakes in Vancouver including trying to be the leader in that room far too quick. He notes that in his Biography book, that it was his biggest learning and biggest failure, and years later has a better view on all his mistakes in Vancouver. he didn't have the room. He tried to be lead the room before he even had the room.

Won't be until playoffs and the stretch that we see more benefit and Keith is a money player. Whenever the games get more important he does.

 

[bucks_oil]

It takes time for a new player to become part of a leadership core on a new club. Duncan Keith is probably wise enough to have taken his time doing that, and he's an astute guy. Keith knows what kind of alphas Leon, Connor, Nurse, even Smith are. So that he's settled into leadership here slowly. Very wise.

Of note, the oft regarded best leader in hockey, Messier, made several mistakes in Vancouver including trying to be the leader in that room far too quick. He notes that in his Biography book, that it was his biggest learning and biggest failure, and years later has a better view on all his mistakes in Vancouver. he didn't have the room. He tried to be lead the room before he even had the room.

Won't be until playoffs and the stretch that we see more benefit and Keith is a money player. Whenever the games get more important he does.

Agree with you... it's a common mistake. The other thing Keith has to be careful with is his approach to leadership likely can't be what it was before... his on ice play isn't the leadership force it once was. I agree with you though... if we can salvage this season, that in itself will be a huge lesson for the room and I have no doubts Keith will have played a role.

Question for you though... have you come around on this? I thought you were quite opposed to Keith?

 

[Drivesaitl]

Agree with you... it's a common mistake. The other thing Keith has to be careful with is his approach to leadership likely can't be what it was before... his on ice play isn't the leadership force it once was. I agree with you though... if we can salvage this season, that in itself will be a huge lesson for the room and I have no doubts Keith will have played a role.

Question for you though... have you come around on this? I thought you were quite opposed to Keith?

I was against the contract initially. I came around on it in days as soon as we found out Larsson was not going to be here. I've been on the fence at times. I mean I know what Keith can do, but also worried about the age, mileage and such.

That said we all know he was good enough to play a hand in beating the Oilers just 2 seasons ago. I still think he's got some money on him in bigger moments.

Boil it down this way. If we make the playoffs there will have been value in the season and Keiths addition. If we for some reason miss out on the playoffs then it was a moonshot for naught. If that makes any sense. Realizing that a lot of things are gambles. In the NHL, and in hockey, there are rarely certainties so all you can do is play bets.

I can see the rationale after the Jets or Hawks series that we needed a calmer leader in the room with the experience and knowledge of what it takes. Plus obviously Keith is a quantum better decision in that regard than Ference ever was.

 

[bone]

An interesting tidbit I came across today. Duncan Keith hasn't allowed a GA when on the ice 5-on5 unless Ceci also was on the ice since November 21st (about 66 minutes). Not sure it means a lot but interesting.

Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

He's also had 0 GA with Barrie in 50 minutes together overall this season.

 

[bucks_oil]

An interesting tidbit I came across today. Duncan Keith hasn't allowed a GA when on the ice 5-on5 unless Ceci also was on the ice since November 21st (about 66 minutes). Not sure it means a lot but interesting.

Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

He's also had 0 GA with Barrie in 50 minutes together overall this season.

I'd really like to see more of Keith Bouchard, he'd be a great mentor for the kid.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Only thing that really comes to mind for me with him is.

He's not as good as I was hoping and he's been better than I feared?

I guess that's average or meh... or in the end.. ok.

He's certainly better than most of the fanbase thought he was going to be.

 

[bone]

I'd really like to see more of Keith Bouchard, he'd be a great mentor for the kid.

Everyone was scared about it because of the struggles with Boqvist last year, but maybe. Outside of the one game vs. Chicago where they somehow gave up both goals against in a 5-2 win, the pair has been decent in the limited 55 minutes sample size.

Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

 

[ManofSteel55]

I'd really like to see more of Keith Bouchard, he'd be a great mentor for the kid.

Me too. Nurse - Ceci, Keith - Bouchard, trade Barrie, keep Russell as#7, fire Koekoek to the taxi squad, and somehow find a new bottom pair. Should be easy for Kenny, right?

 

[ManofSteel55]

The one thing I've been waiting for is the anti - andy/rono and jfresh crowd to post a card showing Keith is good. I imagine his card is perfectly acceptable but I haven't seen it yet.

That would be a hilarious post given how much stock some people put into those cards. I wouldn't say I am anti-jfresh, but I do think his stats are misunderstood and misused by many who use them, so it would be amusing to see that.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Yup, so 3 of 4 listed, are soft and expensive. Wonder why are team d sucks. Miserable fail, from management. Fire Holland real quick.

Yep, too many of the same type. Barrie, Keith and Bouchard are all puck movers, and basically only puck movers. Nurse is a banger, and a great offensive defenseman, but he isn't a shut down guy. Russell is versatile but not good at anything aside from blocking shots. Koekoek has been disappointing. Ceci has been surprisingly solid but isn't a banger either. No toughness on that backend aside from our #1, and the only guys with quality defensive play don't have the reputation as being good defensively (Nurse, Ceci). Holland needs at least one shut down banger here. I wonder if Niemelainen would have stayed in the lineup if he didn't get hurt. He looked good to me in those few games.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Needs to be mentioned that Keith isn't just here for his stat line. He's here to add a dimension of stability in the room and on the bench and a bit of leadership that can be missing from a still somewhat young leadership core. To wit Keith was showing up in post game availabilities during the losing string. made a lot of good comments. He's been supportive of the struggling Koskinen and also helped raise a need to support the struggling goalies. Keith is more involved in that, on the ice than any of our D, making sure to tap pads after a save, to talk to the goalies etc. The Oilers as a team under duress have often been guilty of not doing these little things to support each other. Maturity is needed on the bench and Keith knows what it takes. I don't like the contract terms but part of his worth is what he brings to a room in stability.

Keith, if you watch Saturdays game was more involved than anybody in keeping Koskinen in the fight and reassuring him on ice. Keith also supported the goaltending in comments and set the tone for Drai to do the same in the post game availability.

Last season I think it possible this team would have not pulled out this game. Keith is reminding that regardless of performances and stats you have to keep supporting whatever goalie you have on the ice. You have to.

Nailed it. After a horribad week of 'challenging' media avails it was not a surprise the organization opted to put veteran Keith out to calm the waters along with Nurse who was excellent as well. Keith's a glue guy to help stabilize and support this organization's growth through a dynamic young core of elite players.

It bares mentioning that the raw data of his Chicago numbers reflect his elevated time on ice with an inexperienced d-corp; a trusted veteran who was moved around with a variety of young partners; and frankly, a very poor team results. He's reset reasonably well on this Oilers team. He can get caught on occasion where a 27 year old Keith's skating could and would mitigate mistakes that his current age might not. But will agree rumours of Mr. Keith's demise are greatly exaggerated.

 

[Czechboy]

That would be a hilarious post given how much stock some people put into those cards. I wouldn't say I am anti-jfresh, but I do think his stats are misunderstood and misused by many who use them, so it would be amusing to see that.

I'm 50-50 on a lot of those stats.. I like the cards and find they are usually pretty close to reality. But every so often someone will share a fancy stats tweet and I always want to see the first 20 on the list in whatever category that is.

Eg. there were some fancy stats last year that seemed to indicated Caleb was better than Nurse... you know, i struggled with those.lol

 

[nturn06]

We need defenceman that can ram opposing players through the glass. Keith is a creampuff.

We need D-men who know how to play defence....

As for "can ram opponents", that is useless unless the player plays like they care.... Just look at Kassian, he can ram opponents but he won't.

 

[nturn06]

Needs to be mentioned that Keith isn't just here for his stat line. He's here to add a dimension of stability in the room and on the bench and a bit of leadership that can be missing from a still somewhat young leadership core. To wit Keith was showing up in post game availabilities during the losing string. made a lot of good comments. He's been supportive of the struggling Koskinen and also helped raise a need to support the struggling goalies. Keith is more involved in that, on the ice than any of our D, making sure to tap pads after a save, to talk to the goalies etc. The Oilers as a team under duress have often been guilty of not doing these little things to support each other. Maturity is needed on the bench and Keith knows what it takes. I don't like the contract terms but part of his worth is what he brings to a room in stability.

Keith, if you watch Saturdays game was more involved than anybody in keeping Koskinen in the fight and reassuring him on ice. Keith also supported the goaltending in comments and set the tone for Drai to do the same in the post game availability.

Last season I think it possible this team would have not pulled out this game. Keith is reminding that regardless of performances and stats you have to keep supporting whatever goalie you have on the ice. You have to.

IMO, it is much more than that, I think Keith can be a great mentor for Bouchard and Broberg....

I remember when the Oilers signed Adam Oates, and everyone hated him for not putting up points.... But after his half season with the Oilers all our young Centers rocked in the FO circle, and that was huge during the 2006 run. If Keith can have that type of impact on the younguns, that would be huge.

 

[bucks_oil]

Nailed it. After a horribad week of 'challenging' media avails it was not a surprise the organization opted to put veteran Keith out to calm the waters along with Nurse who was excellent as well. Keith's a glue guy to help stabilize and support this organization's growth through a dynamic young core of elite players.

It bares mentioning that the raw data of his Chicago numbers reflect his elevated time on ice with an inexperienced d-corp; a trusted veteran who was moved around with a variety of young partners; and frankly, a very poor team results. He's reset reasonably well on this Oilers team. He can get caught on occasion where a 27 year old Keith's skating could and would mitigate mistakes that his current age might not. But will agree rumours of Mr. Keith's demise are greatly exaggerated.

I somehow resonated with this. Once Ol’ Man Keith realizes he’s lost a step the same HoF decision making will do him well…. He’s just gotta face up honestly to Father Time and play within his means….

Play within your means… you know what to do… a solid lesson on any beer league team I’ve ever won with, lol. If your 13the round guy knows he sucks, but cares enough to just get the puck out…. Well, that man is a winner in my books

 

[Drivesaitl]

A follow up to my post last week. Oilers won their 2nd game in a row last night and last night Koski saved potentially not only the season, but one Connor McDavid, who has a brutal puck giveaway or two in the game and Koski made some big stops. There in the third period, as Koski skates to the bench during a break, is Connor looking at Koski, acknowledging him, saying thank you, and patting him, and saying it post game too. Connor wasn't doing that, the team wasn't doing that enough with players, and with struggling players, and know that is there, and its spreading through the team that especially in adversity you have to be supporting each other. Drai had had already made the comments on Koski last week and supported him and went out of his way to do that. Now it was Connors turn.

I firmly believe, because I saw ample indications of it, that this message came from a veteran Duncan Keith who knows a few things about winning. hehe.

Pulju. Lagesson, Yakupov, others have complained about the Oilers being not always a comfortable team to play with, or to struggle in. McD is very mercenary (he wants success so bad it hurts) but this means he can be sharp tongued with others, occasionally point fingers. Keith, Drai, they offer kinder leadership. I don't have a read on what Darnell is like in this respect. But Keith being here I think its tipped the balance between tough love and accepting love. Nuge is a pretty balanced soul. Seems very relaxed, guys would like playing with him. He's in control and level minded. So I'm sure Nuge is supportive of all.

Koski is your goalie, you have to accept him, you have to make him feel part of things. Its too hard a mountain for anybody to climb if your goalie thinks that each time they let in a goal that theres going to be distancing. The team is again becoming a team.

 

[ManofSteel55]

I'm 50-50 on a lot of those stats.. I like the cards and find they are usually pretty close to reality. But every so often someone will share a fancy stats tweet and I always want to see the first 20 on the list in whatever category that is.

Eg. there were some fancy stats last year that seemed to indicated Caleb was better than Nurse... you know, i struggled with those.lol

There are fancy stats out there that imply that Nurse is just an overall bad defenseman. He's no Norris contender, but I struggle with people trying to tell me that Nurse is awful as well.

 

[Wretched Oil]

This reminds me, were they booing Keith in Van because he didn't choose them?

 

[Drivesaitl]

That would be a hilarious post given how much stock some people put into those cards. I wouldn't say I am anti-jfresh, but I do think his stats are misunderstood and misused by many who use them, so it would be amusing to see that.

The trouble also is how those are arranged to be one look cheat cards on players, and the users tend to use them way. But its dishonest both ways. Dishonest to post those as if they are some kind of substantiation of players play or worth, and the consumers that want the easy quick (lazy) one glance analysis.

its like deriving your opinions from twitter. If you do that you fail to have view, to have vision.

"Seen him good" has a lot of critics but I'm definitely geared to deriving my own opinions whether it be in sports or other endeavor. I evaluate first, the n I seek out some information to see if theres something else to be gleaned.

Analytics of any kind (thus far) in hockey should be about giving another look, another glimpse. It shouldn't be seen as overriding more obvious views on players that are gained from watching. To wit when some dumb infographic has someone like Nurse being less than a routine rook D, its pretty clear distortion. I'll heed actually watching Nurse play and turn countless rushes over and come up with the puck. He's owning right now. I don't need any analytics to tell me that.