Player Discussion Duncan Keith

[harpoon]

Sorry, not sure what your point is. Don’t believe I said everyone in the world is following restrictions to the letter of the law.

My point is that not everyone is doing the excellent job you are doing. And kudos to you, but all you had to do was watch the last Oiler game to see that many many vaccinated people think getting a shot is the end of their responsibility to the community. So when you say stuff like ‘what more can we do’ ... while it may be accurate for you, there is more that some folks can do. Like put your damn mask on for one.

 

[bellagiobob]

My point is that not everyone is doing the excellent job you are doing. And kudos to you, but all you had to do was watch the last Oiler game to see that many many vaccinated people think getting a shot is the end of their responsibility to the community. So when you say stuff like ‘what more can we do’ ... while it may be accurate for you, there is more that some folks can do. Like put your damn mask on for one.

I don’t disagree. But at some point, and maybe we are pretty much at that point, the average Joe is going to say I got my shots, I did the restrictions, I’m likely not going to get sick, and I’ve done my part for long enough to help those who won’t get vaccinated, but if they won’t help themselves, then screw it. Not saying it’s right or wrong, but think that’s where we are or are headed to.

 

[redgrant]

Good for you but you can still get sick rather easily indoors. I personally have no desire to be indoors outside of shopping and in my own home.



Well we'll see how many covid cases there will be in the NHL with all of the players vaccinated. There is bound to be some.

Yes there are bound to be some same as if every player got a flu shot. Imagine if there were no covid protocols at all. We'd have entire teams missing months because they could not ice a roster.

Again the NHL is a private business. If you work in some jobs you get drug tested, some jobs require credit checks. If you have decided to die on the no vaccination molehill like Zac rinaldo and miss out thousands of dollars before your career ends... Well I hope it was worth it.

 

[AnInjuredJasonZucker]

So, can the Oilers name their Masterton nominee early?

 

[doulos]

You make no sense

I fit right in here then.

 

[Stoneman89]

It wasn’t and isn’t about the spread of the disease. It’s about the outcome. And the fact is that unvaccinated people are proven to have worse outcomes than those who are vaccinated. I implore everybody to look at the statistics on the gov of Alberta website of vaxed vs unvaxed in the hospital and ICU. The unfortunate reality is that unvaccinated people are crippling the hospitals and the health care system, which is why we have all these restrictions.

You have to think about the effect of the spread, not just the spread.

Amen, brother, preach it.

 

[Stoneman89]

For sure and that’s a problem but he unvaccinated are a small minority at this point.

And that is truly the crux of the matter and a very scary thing, because that small minority absolutely overwhelms and dominates our hospitalizations and ICU beds, to the point we haven't had a regular operation scheduled for 3 weeks so far, and have had to call in the army and specialized people from other provinces to help out.
Trust me, if scads of people weren't in the hospital because of this, no one would really are much about the spread. Both parties can spread the virus, it's common knowledge, although evidence does exist that the potential for spread amoungst the unvaxed is greater than if you are vaccinated. And both parties can get sick, but the capacity to have a severe result if far greater if you are unvaccinated, as proven repeatedly by our hospitalization numbers for unvaxed going up daily.

 

[Stoneman89]

Good for you but you can still get sick rather easily indoors. I personally have no desire to be indoors outside of shopping and in my own home.



Well we'll see how many covid cases there will be in the NHL with all of the players vaccinated. There is bound to be some.

Sure there will be. But the point is how severe the result will be for them.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Sure there will be. But the point is how severe the result will be for them.

This is true, however how is that changed by getting the virus from a vaccinated or unvaccinated person? The only potential difference is the viral load that they may come into contact with but that also depends on at what point they are exposed to the ill person.

 

[Snipes45]

And that is truly the crux of the matter and a very scary thing, because that small minority absolutely overwhelms and dominates our hospitalizations and ICU beds, to the point we haven't had a regular operation scheduled for 3 weeks so far, and have had to call in the army and specialized people from other provinces to help out.
Trust me, if scads of people weren't in the hospital because of this, no one would really are much about the spread. Both parties can spread the virus, it's common knowledge, although evidence does exist that the potential for spread amoungst the unvaxed is greater than if you are vaccinated. And both parties can get sick, but the capacity to have a severe result if far greater if you are unvaccinated, as proven repeatedly by our hospitalization numbers for unvaxed going up daily.

The ICU part pi**es me off. We live in a society where people don't really think something is important unless it happens to them or people close to them.

I have two family members who have had their cancer surgeries delayed 2-3 weeks because these braindead twits are hogging everything in the hospitals.

I read a stat on Twitter in AB. 150-160 people went to the ICU that were 40 years old or less in the last 3/4 months. Besides 1 person, everybody was unvaccinated....

 

[Panda Bear]

I thought this was going to be about Duncan Keith, not a reminder of how f***ing stupid the "my rights" brigade are.

 

[Stoneman89]

This is true, however how is that changed by getting the virus from a vaccinated or unvaccinated person? The only potential difference is the viral load that they may come into contact with but that also depends on at what point they are exposed to the ill person.

Not sure where this discussion is going, to be honest. Again, vaccinated people can infect other people, including other vaccinated people. It is a fact however, that if you are vaccinated, the chances of infecting others, or catching the virus are diminished, but shit can still happen. And even though these are well conditioned young athletes, there certainly is a possibility of some of them (likely any unvaccinated ones) having a severe result, which does no good for the team, or the league. So, to keep going, it's best to have the best prevention available (vaccines) and do their best to follow best practices, like proper hygeine and social distance, where they can.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Not sure where this discussion is going, to be honest. Again, vaccinated people can infect other people, including other vaccinated people. It is a fact however, that if you are vaccinated, the chances of infecting others, or catching the virus are diminished, but shit can still happen. And even though these are well conditioned young athletes, there certainly is a possibility of some of them (likely any unvaccinated ones) having a severe result, which does no good for the team, or the league. So, to keep going, it's best to have the best prevention available (vaccines) and do their best to follow best practices, like proper hygeine and social distance, where they can.

I'm just saying that the vaccinated can still get the virus from the vaccinated. IMO the best part about the vaccine is that it most likely lessens your individual risk of severe illness. The spreading part of the virus still happens when vaccinated, it just lessens the period that the virus has to infect others. IMO having antiviral drugs that can successfully treat the virus maybe our best way out of this pandemic unless we can find vaccines that stop the ability to spread the virus.

 

[Stoneman89]

For what it's worth (and hopefully this discussion shifts back soon to praising and trashing Duncan Keith for his hockey playing talents), this is how I think it shakes down.

The vax fence sitters eventually get the vax so they can once again participate and gain access to public events. The rest of the militant ones won't, and will continue to clog the hospital and ICU beds, until enough of the unlucky ones get sick and die, and we reach the fabled herd immunity, whatever that is. But before we get there, the virus will also take it's share (directly or indirectly) of vaccinated folks, who either have existing co-morbidities, or are unable to access the hospital care they desperately need to survive, as well as those suffering from other non-life threatening but much needed surgeries or treatments. And we will all have to deal with further possible restrictions, shutdowns, etc. The timeline to reach the finish line, and finally have most of the restrictions open up long term, will depend on how quickly we get to herd immunity by slowing this thing down and reversing it, either through vaccinations or the rest just flat out catching the virus. Up to us.

 

[McTonyBrar]

I fit right in here then.

Buddy you sound like such a child. Like me. Seriously. Why are you an Oiler fan?

 

[Stoneman89]

I'm just saying that the vaccinated can still get the virus from the vaccinated. IMO the best part about the vaccine is that it likely lessens your risk of severe illness. The spreading part of the virus still happens when vaccinated, it just lessens the period that the virus has to infect others. IMO having antiviral drugs that can successfully treat the virus maybe our best way out of this pandemic unless we can find vaccines that stop the ability to spread the virus.

I'm not sure why you're mentioning the bolded repeatedly. This is pretty much common knowledge at this point, and I have never argued it. And to this point, there have not been any anti-viral drugs that can conclusively treat the virus successfully. Until that occurs, the vaccinations are the best way right now to drastically reduce severe outcomes, and right now, that is the most important thing. This thing will likely run it's course, and there will be many, many more people getting infected. On it's own, not a big deal. Just like the flu, which usually takes the weak, and everyone else gets through it after a couple days in bed. If that's what this was, the interest and actions would be far less. It's the amount of severe outcomes in the hospitals that is the huge concern, and it's getting more desperate by the day here in Alberta. We can't sit around and wait for anti-viral drugs to arrive.

 

[Stoneman89]

The ICU part pi**es me off. We live in a society where people don't really think something is important unless it happens to them or people close to them.

I have two family members who have had their cancer surgeries delayed 2-3 weeks because these braindead twits are hogging everything in the hospitals.

I read a stat on Twitter in AB. 150-160 people went to the ICU that were 40 years old or less in the last 3/4 months. Besides 1 person, everybody was unvaccinated....

I have a relative that works in a major hospital in the ICU ward. She tells of unvaxed people lying on their deathbeds, begging for the shot. Another case of a woman who refused a ventilator because she said they kill people (if you can believe it). But as I've been told, if you get to the point of needing that ventilator, you probably don't have a good chance of surviving anyhow, so it's the last, faint hope for the lucky ones. Absolute shit show in there, with the relative working some 16 hour shifts. Not to mention the current telephone abuse and threats to the hospital staff from the militant ones. I guess since they can't block ambulance entries or shout down people going to work, they've gone to the cowardly anonymous route.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I'm not sure why you're mentioning the bolded repeatedly. This is pretty much common knowledge at this point, and I have never argued it. And to this point, there have not been any anti-viral drugs that can conclusively treat the virus successfully. Until that occurs, the vaccinations are the best way right now to drastically reduce severe outcomes, and right now, that is the most important thing. This thing will likely run it's course, and there will be many, many more people getting infected. On it's own, not a big deal. Just like the flu, which usually takes the weak, and everyone else gets through it after a couple days in bed. If that's what this was, the interest and actions would be far less. It's the amount of severe outcomes in the hospitals that is the huge concern, and it's getting more desperate by the day here in Alberta. We can't sit around and wait for anti-viral drugs to arrive.

Because people that are ripping on Keith for getting others ill potentially. Be mad at him because he might take medical resources that are spread thin IF he didn't get vaccinated, but saying that Archie or Keith would get everyone sick is just wrong IMO.

I agree that as of this moment the vaccines are the best bet that we have and people should very seriously look at getting them if they haven't already. I am just saying that from what I see, I don't believe that we will be out of this until we have antiviral drugs that take this thing down early or better vaccines. For now we still need to be careful and keep hoping for brighter days ahead.

 

[Stoneman89]

Because people that are ripping on Keith for getting others ill potentially. Be mad at him because he might take medical resources that are spread thin IF he didn't get vaccinated, but saying that Archie or Keith would get everyone sick is just wrong IMO.

I agree that as of this moment the vaccines are the best bet that we have and people should very seriously look at getting them if they haven't already. I am just saying that from what I see, I don't believe that we will be out of this until we have antiviral drugs that take this thing down early or better vaccines. For now we still need to be careful and keep hoping for brighter days ahead.

Yah, I wasn't really referring to Keith or Archie, but the NHL is trying to do the best to prevent spread, and having possible severe results, in addition to possible cancellation of games, or even part of the season.

Not sure hope is a really good option, when there are vaccines available. But I guess, I HOPE we get enough people vaccinated, or enough spread happens (and quickly, but unfortunately with a cost) that we can get to some semblance of long term normalcy.

 

[Mr Positive]

Keith is an ideal covid role model at this time. All the people who were quickly sold on getting the vaccine and are passionate about everyone getting are just white noise to those hesitant to get vaccinated. Keith is someone who had misgivings but changed his mind about getting it. That's the exact kind of person we should be giving nothing but praise to

 

[Stoneman89]

Keith is an ideal covid role model at this time. All the people who were quickly sold on getting the vaccine and are passionate about everyone getting are just white noise to those hesitant to get vaccinated. Keith is someone who had misgivings but changed his mind about getting it. That's the exact kind of person we should be giving nothing but praise to

Not true at all. The only reason he got vaccinated is so that he could continue with his hockey career. His misgivings over taking it remain. At least that's what he appeared to say in the article, unless you have other info I am unaware of.

 

[Mr Positive]

Not true at all. The only reason he got vaccinated is so that he could continue with his hockey career. His misgivings over taking it remain. At least that's what he appeared to say in the article, unless you have other info I am unaware of.

I dont think his motives matter. The point is that he got the shot. For the people hesitant, that's what it's going to be like. It's not that they are going to be suddenly convinced of the science. They are going to get it to get on with their life.

 

[bellagiobob]

Keith is an ideal covid role model at this time. All the people who were quickly sold on getting the vaccine and are passionate about everyone getting are just white noise to those hesitant to get vaccinated. Keith is someone who had misgivings but changed his mind about getting it. That's the exact kind of person we should be giving nothing but praise to

Not sure if role model is the term I’d use. Was dragged kicking and screaming to get the shot, and only did it very relevantly for his employment. A vaccine hesitant role model for me would be someone who took the time to study the science, realized it was legit, and got the jab.

 

[Mr Positive]

Not sure if role model is the term I’d use. Was dragged kicking and screaming to get the shot, and only did it very relevantly for his employment. A vaccine hesitant role model for me would be someone who took the time to study the science, realized it was legit, and got the jab.

If you approach them by saying their science is just wrong you'll get nowhere. Keith's example is better for vaccine hesitant people: that even if taking the vaccine isnt what you want, it's not a huge deal if it means getting on with your life.

I tried to convince people of the science. It just doesnt work. They have an emotional resistance

 

[GhostfaceWu]

Not sure if role model is the term I’d use. Was dragged kicking and screaming to get the shot, and only did it very relevantly for his employment. A vaccine hesitant role model for me would be someone who took the time to study the science, realized it was legit, and got the jab.

Yeah need to get all those 18 year olds out there to really study the science before getting the vaccine.