Duncan Keith vs Scott Niedermayer

[Sensinitis]

who’s better at their peak? And who would you take for a playoff run?

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[sr edler]

Keith since he was the driving force during Hawks Cup runs. Nieds always had Stevens or Pronger, and in 2007 I think even Beauchemin logged more minutes.

 

[lawrence]

Neidermayer, the numbers he was able to post on a team that played strict defencie is truly unbelievable. He is literally in my point of view as good as Lidstrom, the difference was that Lidstrom was surrounded by a bunch hockey hall of famers, now it's not to say Neidermayer had a bunch of nobodies. the Devils at the time, also had highly skilled players, like Mogilny Sykora, Elias, Jason Arnot, but they literally invented the "Trap" and because of years of him playing on the New Jersey team dropped his stats, a bit, or you can say a lot. He never had the luxary of a strong fire power team like Keith had with Chicago, it's not to say Keith is bad, I think Keith is the best dman in this generation of hockey or this era, or this last 10 year era, whatever you want to call it, bar none.

 

[feffan]

Neidermayer, the numbers he was able to post on a team that played strict defencie is truly unbelievable. He is literally in my point of view as good as Lidstrom, the difference was that Lidstrom was surrounded by a bunch hockey hall of famers, now it's not to say Neidermayer had a bunch of nobodies. the Devils at the time, also had highly skilled players, like Mogilny Sykora, Elias, Jason Arnot, but they literally invented the "Trap" and because of years of him playing on the New Jersey team dropped his stats, a bit, or you can say a lot. He never had the luxary of a strong fire power team like Keith had with Chicago, it's not to say Keith is bad, I think Keith is the best dman in this generation of hockey or this era, or this last 10 year era, whatever you want to call it, bar none.

The Devils finished 4 times with the 2nd most goals in the leauge and 1 time with the most goals in the leauge during Niedermayers time there. It´s a myth that the Devils was a strict defensive minded team, even if they where it a few seasons mid 90´s. But the teams around the millenia where top of the leauge in offense. They only once during his time their finished beyond 20.

And the Devils from 92/93-03/04 have 3 0f the top 25 most GF by a team (most are from 92/93 season of course...). The same number of top 25 placements as the Red Wings and the Penguins. And there 00/01 team is the first of the millenia teams to show up.

The Trap was around since the 20´s when the Maple Leafs begun playing something like it. And ironically, as you mentioned Lidstrom, Bowman had the Red Wings play the Left Wing Lock. Wich is a much similar system invented by Czechoslovakia to battle the Soviets during the 60-70´s. None of the system are strictly a defensive system. It´s about regaining possession of the puck as effectively and without risk as possible. According to me the success of both the Devils and the Red Wings was because they got offensive great players to buy in to it and therefore also could do something with the possesion once gained. A trap team without offense could be the Florida Panthers trip to the Finals, but I got to admit I don´t completley remember what version they played...

To me Niedermayer is one of the more overrated players threw NHL history. He was outside a few seasons (3-4...) a top 10-30 defender in the leauge. But people seem to remember his peak and place his whole career on that level. To me Niedermayer until his Ducks days always was the player that with the tools he should have been better. His

To me Keith had the same peak, but was also a top 5-10 D during most seasons he wasn´t a Norris finalist. Add that Keith has the best playoff. To me even maybe the top 2. Also a much bigger role on his Cup teams. And Niedermayers Smythe is Prongers Smythe as I see it.

It ain´t that I can´t see people picking Niedermayer, because their careers are close but to me it´s still a clear win for Keith. And to be honest, I can´t see Niedermayer being much higher or even at all on an all time list than Zubov or Gonchar.

God damn I seem to hate Niedermayer when rereading my post before posting... Actually I think he was a treat to watch and a great player. Just that to me it´s frustrating that he´s ranked way over what he really accomplished as a player.

 

[Nick Hansen]

They're pretty equal, I'd assume, but give me Keith. I like his nastiness.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Scotty, hands down, not even close.

I don't think any Hawks fans should say Keith
because he is a Hawks player.

Niedermayers is one best d-man ever to play this sport
Keith is not. - even thou Keith has had a tremendous career -

 

[MXD]

Okay...
I don't want to write a long post.

But I need to be explained what those two players are doing in the same sentence before even considering comparing them.

 

[MXD]

Keith since he was the driving force during Hawks Cup runs. Neids always had Stevens or Pronger, and in 2007 I think even Beauchemin logged more minutes.

Beauchemin logged more minutes than both Pronger and Niedermayer.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Okay...
I don't want to write a long post.

But I need to be explained what those two players are doing in the same sentence before even considering comparing them.

For what it's worth they were drafted back to back in ATD2017, and went within 4 picks of each other in ATD2018.

 

[MXD]

For what it's worth they were drafted back to back in ATD2017, and went within 4 picks of each other in ATD2018.

I could also get in ATD 2019 and draft Mats Naslund with Paul Kariya still on the board.
That would say much more on me than on Naslund vs. Kariya.

(Not suggesting the Keith vs. Niedermayer gap = Kariya vs. Naslund gap)

 

[BenchBrawl]

I could also get in ATD 2019 and draft Mats Naslund with Paul Kariya still on the board.
That would say much more on me than on Naslund vs. Kariya.

(Not suggesting the Keith vs. Niedermayer gap = Kariya vs. Naslund gap)

I said for what it's worth.

 

[sr edler]

Okay...
I don't want to write a long post.

But I need to be explained what those two players are doing in the same sentence before even considering comparing them.

Now you're doing this hyperbole thing again and I'm not at all sure who you're preferring. I guess Keith since you put him first in post #10.

 

[tarheelhockey]

People are talking like Keith didn’t win two Norris trophies and a Smythe.

 

[Spirit of 67]

Duncan was great.

But this is Scott all day long.

 

[quoipourquoi]

I think if Scott Niedermayer played in a different city than New Jersey, he had the raw talent to become the generational bridge between Coffey and Karlsson as an offensive defenseman. Better Play-Doh, but Duncan Keith was shaped in the better mould.

 

[MXD]

Now you're doing this hyperbole thing again and I'm not at all sure who you're preferring. I guess Keith since you put him first in post #10.

It's mostly a thing of : one (Keith) is slightly but clearly better than the other (Niedermayer), to the point where I can't see why the comparison is being made in the first. It's not like, comparing, say, Earl Seibert and Borje Salming : I think of them is clearly better (Seibert), but it's not super obvious due to totally different eras, different career arcs and totally different game.

 

[sr edler]

It's mostly a thing of : one (Keith) is slightly but clearly better than the other (Niedermayer), to the point where I can't see why the comparison is being made in the first. It's not like, comparing, say, Earl Seibert and Borje Salming : I think of them is clearly better (Seibert), but it's not super obvious due to totally different eras, different career arcs and totally different game.

It's because Nieds was "held back".

 

[K Fleur]

It’s gotta be Keith right? Kind of close in regular season performance(even their I think Keith has the edge) but Keith was/is a much better playoff performer.

 

[Thenameless]

I like Niedermayer more (loved those end to end rushes), but I think Keith is better. On those New Jersey teams, it was always Stevens AND Niedermayer - Stevens came first. On the Ducks, it was Pronger AND Niedermayer - Pronger came first. On Chicago, it's Keith and Seabrook - Duncan Keith is the man.

I know that Niedermayer has won at every level, but that's more luck being on the right team at the right time. It's Duncan Keith here.

 

[quoipourquoi]

It's because Nieds was "held back".

I mean, he was. He and Lemaire had a not-very-secret feud over how he was used.

He isn't fond of the Devils' tight defensive system. He wants the freedom to rush into the offensive zone more often. Devil coach Jacques Lemaire, however, wishes he could wire the opposing team's blue line so it would give his defensemen a shock if they wandered into the offensive end.

I had no complaints in the first few years because I was just happy to be in the NHL, but as a few years went by, maybe around 1996 or '97, Lemaire was there and we were still playing the same way and I wanted more offensively, I felt I could contribute more, and I really sort of butted heads with him for a while.

He felt he could be a better offensive player if I would just let him go and not correct the defensive part of his game.

Lemaire wanted to use the Lamborghini to pick up groceries.

 

[tony d]

Niedermayer for me.

 

[GMR]

I've never thought much of Niedermayer in his own zone, so I'd have to say Keith.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

who’s better at their peak? And who would you take for a playoff run?

Keith for both questions.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

People are talking like Keith didn’t win two Norris trophies and a Smythe.

or like Niedermayer didnt spend his career next to Stevens and Pronger

 

[tarheelhockey]

or like Niedermayer didnt spend his career next to Stevens and Pronger

I don't disagree, but I don't think you can really use the teammate argument against him when the other guy is Duncan Keith.