GDT: Ducks @ Sabres 11/2/2013 4:00PM PST

[Fallenity]

Have to echo some of the sentiments already stated here, it does kind of put a downer on everything after a good Ducks win and everybody is arguing over how crappy the team or a player or some line is.

If they win, then they're playing good enough for me. We should be ecstatic that even with all the injuries, this team manages to contend every night. But instead of talking about how well for example DSP has played since coming up or even with three of our top 6 defenders being young as hell, they manage to play solid night after night. But no, we focus on the fact that Fowler is a minus for the season or Beauchemin is not repeating his Norris play from last season or Palmieri is not scoring every night. Vow is us indeed.

 

[Ducksgo*]

Just to clear things up, I made that comment when Sojourn gushed about Magnus in a very Ducksgo kind of way. It was a joke.

I'm done with all this Fowler talk. I'd rather search for the end of the internet than go down that road any more.

But here are the reasons our defense hasn't been as bad as most of us expected...

Fowler continues to improve his defense
Allen looks like a different guy this year
Lovejoy continues to play above the 6/7 label he came here with
Lindholm has played like a solid top 4 D man as a rookie
Beach hasn't been too bad coming back early
Sami hasn't been a disaster

Did I miss anything?

To your first sentence? The road is long and hard brethren. I got trade forums trolling with Etem trades. Guy put up two goals for our win last night AND I knew that **** was going to happen. Anytime Etem makes a damn play or score we got ******** around the corner.

 

[Sojourn]

Cam Fowler is garbage.

PLAYER|AGE|GP|ES TOI|ES GA on
Fowler Cam|21.332|15|16:38|8
Doughty Drew|23.329|15|19:02|14
Pietrangelo Alex|23.288|12|19:07|6
Ekman-Larsson Oliver|22.108|15|17:44|8

Didn't know that. Very cool. Good company to be in.

 

[mightyquack]

I actually thought Fowler was starting to look like he's turning a bit of a corner offensively the last 5 or 6 games, he wasn't getting the points till the last couple of games, but he was making plenty of nice plays that just couldn't be finished, difference being the last couple of games there's been finish on the plays.

He still needs to work on his offensive game, but he's hardly a disaster offensively.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

I actually thought Fowler was starting to look like he's turning a bit of a corner offensively the last 5 or 6 games, he wasn't getting the points till the last couple of games, but he was making plenty of nice plays that just couldn't be finished, difference being the last couple of games there's been finish on the plays.

He still needs to work on his offensive game, but he's hardly a disaster offensively.

Not a disaster, but not great. But his defense is first rate. His (and those with whom he shares the ice) inability to score is the reason he's a minus, not his D.

 

[AngelDuck]

Cam Fowler is garbage.

PLAYER|AGE|GP|ES TOI|ES GA on
Fowler Cam|21.332|15|16:38|8
Doughty Drew|23.329|15|19:02|14
Pietrangelo Alex|23.288|12|19:07|6
Ekman-Larsson Oliver|22.108|15|17:44|8

He's not as good as Pietrangelo! Trade him!

 

[DaDucks*]

Reading this page sure was fun.

Sojourn needing a Fowler obsession intervention was a real treat to read.

Like really there's a reason why I don't post around here as much as I used to and it's the same reason why I left the nightmare that Allducks became. The what have you done for me lately scapegoating after EVERY GAME is a real drag. And most of the time it's not even justified. Fowler is doing just fine for a defender his age.

EDIT: BTW, Fowler had four blocked shots against Buffalo. Must really not know how to play defense.

Pretty amazing how some people outside the conversation interpret debates.

I have no problem with Cams defense. It's been hard for me to watch beauch sacrifice his future with the club playing injured, to just toss him aside as being average this year and calling Cam the #1 set me off... Disrespectful...trust me I would have loved to have just enjoyed the W last night.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Pretty amazing how some people outside the conversation interpret debates.

I have no problem with Cams defense. It's been hard for me to watch beauch sacrifice his future with the club playing injured, to just toss him aside as being average this year and calling Cam the #1 set me off... Disrespectful...trust me I would have loved to have just enjoyed the W last night.

Beauchemin is slow, making mistakes, and last night alone had two failed clears that led directly to goals. He's playing #2 minutes with 2nd pairing match ups unless its on the PK or right at the end of a game. He's not playing well by his own standards or any other. That's not disrespectful, that's statistical reality. It's ironic how you keep bashing Fowler but complain about someone being disrespectful to another player. He's not an elite #1 by any means, but there's no question he's a better player this year.

 

[DaDucks*]

Beauchemin is slow, making mistakes, and last night alone had two failed clears that led directly to goals. He's playing #2 minutes with 2nd pairing match ups unless its on the PK or right at the end of a game. He's not playing well by his own standards or any other. That's not disrespectful, that's statistical reality. It's ironic how you keep bashing Fowler but complain about someone being disrespectful to another player. He's not an elite #1 by any means, but there's no question he's a better player this year.

Hmm you defended Jason Blake's shortcomings after his injuries, I'm surprised beauch doesn't warrant the same respect...

 

[Ducks DVM]

Hmm you defended Jason Blake's shortcomings after his injuries, I'm surprised beauch doesn't warrant the same respect...

I respect him for playing. However, I think he came back too soon, and that he's not currently the overall best guy on the team. If I had to pick one player making the most egregious turnovers on D, it's very clearly him in my mind (Lovejoy makes the most panic decisions and both rookies make rookie mistakes, but Beauchemin is the one making bad decisions and passes he should know better than). Defending Blake as not being complete trash =/= saying Beauchemin being slow and making atypical mental mistakes is still a #1D.

 

[DaDucks*]

I respect him for playing. However, I think he came back too soon, and that he's not currently the overall best guy on the team. If I had to pick one player making the most egregious turnovers on D, it's very clearly him in my mind (Lovejoy makes the most panic decisions and both rookies make rookie mistakes, but Beauchemin is the one making bad decisions and passes he should know better than). Defending Blake as not being complete trash =/= saying Beauchemin being slow and making atypical mental mistakes is still a #1D.

Ya, but he clearly came back because he thought the team needed him. I was the first to post that he needs to sit, I'm aware of his play not being the best because of his injury.

 

[HanSolo]

Pretty amazing how some people outside the conversation interpret debates.

I have no problem with Cams defense. It's been hard for me to watch beauch sacrifice his future with the club playing injured, to just toss him aside as being average this year and calling Cam the #1 set me off... Disrespectful...trust me I would have loved to have just enjoyed the W last night.

To echo a statement you've already heard, Cam has EARNED that spot. Boudreau is using him in all situations. 5 on 5 against top lines, first powerplay, first penalty kill, final minutes of the game...once again, it's strange to me that something like this could prevent you from enjoying the game. And trust me it's not just you...there's plenty of posters here who can't help but make a stink after every game.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Ya, but he clearly came back because he thought the team needed him. I was the first to post that he needs to sit, I'm aware of his play not being the best because of his injury.

Agreed, and that's commendable, and it is undoubtedly helping the team be where they are. But it doesn't mean he isn't playing poorly and cant be criticized for it and it doesn't mean that the guy who picked up his slack shouldn't get the credit for doing so.

 

[DaDucks*]

To echo a statement you've already heard, Cam has EARNED that spot. Boudreau is using him in all situations. 5 on 5 against top lines, first powerplay, first penalty kill, final minutes of the game...once again, it's strange to me that something like this could prevent you from enjoying the game. And trust me it's not just you...there's plenty of posters here who can't help but make a stink after every game.

Ok, but most of the posters criticize Cam for his offense...There's plenty of room for debate on that topic as well as his minuses that he seems to rack up throughout his career so far.....nobody's complaining about Cam's even strength minutes or pk time...

 

[HanSolo]

Was doing some research, just thought you guys would be interested in knowing that as a member of the Ducks, the great Scott Niedermayer was a -5 in his 371 games played with the team. Just goes to show you how useless that stat can be.

 

[DaDucks*]

But Cam isn't on pace for a career -5, nor is he on pace for Scotty's offensive numbers.... Not sure how you can compare a finished career vs a 4th year defensemen......

I'm sure if Cam was a career plus 20 or something, you guys would still deem the stat worthless....

Or not

 

[HanSolo]

But Cam isn't on pace for a career -5, nor is he on pace for Scotty's offensive numbers.... Not sure how you can compare a finished career vs a 4th year defensemen......

I'm sure if Cam was a career plus 20 or something, you guys would still deem the stat worthless....

Or not

Point out to me where I said that Cam is the next Scotty, and not the absurdness of a minus rating.

 

[rollingdux]

He hasn't scored yet? Well up till last night none of D had. He's not producing on the power play? Hello.... no one is.

I can't single him out in those two areas when the other players are doing the same.

Even strength & PK, Fowler's been much better defensively facing tough minutes & competition this season and lately looks to be getting more involved offensively.

 

[Sojourn]

Pretty amazing how some people outside the conversation interpret debates.

I have no problem with Cams defense. It's been hard for me to watch beauch sacrifice his future with the club playing injured, to just toss him aside as being average this year and calling Cam the #1 set me off... Disrespectful...trust me I would have loved to have just enjoyed the W last night.

I'm not sure how you can say you have no problem with his defense, when you constantly bring up his +/- statistic, or you say he isn't earning his 4 million dollar contract. That suggests, to me, that you do have a problem with it.

 

[DaDucks*]

He hasn't scored yet? Well up till last night none of D had. He's not producing on the power play? Hello.... no one is.

I can't single him out in those two areas when the other players are doing the same.

Even strength & PK, Fowler's been much better defensively facing tough minutes & competition this season and lately looks to be getting more involved offensively.

Cam hasn't scored in 50 plus games. That's the issue.

That's the issue.........part if that 4mil a year is for offense..

 

[DaDucks*]

I'm not sure how you can say you have no problem with his defense, when you constantly bring up his +/- statistic, or you say he isn't earning his 4 million dollar contract. That suggests, to me, that you do have a problem with it.

I bring up the plus minus because it's fascinating that more negative things happen than positive ones, (statistically) when he's on the ice...

I bring up the 4mil for his offensive woes

 

[Paul4587]

Not defending the +/- here, but Penner has been a terrific two-way guy on every line he has played. Of all the pleasant surprises so far this season, his play (and Perreault) is the one that stands out the most for me.

That wasn't criticism towards Penner, I was just pointing out that +/- is a flawed way to view someones contributions like many are with Fowler. He's -1 but is our best defensive player so far.

 

[Sojourn]

I bring up the plus minus because it's fascinating that more negative things happen than positive ones, (statistically) when he's on the ice...

I bring up the 4mil for his offensive woes

Then your understanding of +/- is horribly lacking, because that isn't what the statistic says at all.

And, even at his price tag, with the offensive issues, he's more than worth the salary he's getting. $4 million, for what Fowler is currently giving us, is a good deal.

 

[DaDucks*]

Then your understanding of +/- is horribly lacking, because that isn't what the statistic says at all.

And, even at his price tag, with the offensive issues, he's more than worth the salary he's getting. $4 million, for what Fowler is currently giving us, is a good deal.

My understand of the plus minus is as follows:
On the ice for a goal: goal thing

On the ice for a goal against: bad thing.

Or at least this is that I choose to believe. Keep it simple.

Number 1 team in scoring 5v5 with 3 total losses.

 

[Sojourn]

My understand of the plus minus is as follows:
On the ice for a goal: goal thing

On the ice for a goal against: bad thing.

Or at least this is that I choose to believe. Keep it simple.

Number 1 team in scoring 5v5 with 3 total losses.

And there it is.