GDT: Ducks at Sharks 03/20/2014, 7:30pm.

[Grave]

He's excellent defensively.

However, he is slightly over-rated. I watch the Kings quite a bit, and they are my 2nd favorite team. Kopitar is awesome, but he's not a top-5 player consistently. He has spurts of top-5 play, but he just doesn't do it consistently enough to truly be a top-5 player. I'd put him as a top-15 forward maybe.

Gaborik is just going to end up hurt, and he sucks defensively. Doughty is fantastic, but again, he's not super consistent. He's prone to long stretch of mediocre play. Which is again why I can't say he's the best d-man in the NHL. He is top-5 though, top-10 at worst.

A lot of that is splitting hairs, but in the end my original point still stands. The difference in skill between the Kings and Sharks is not big enough to likely be the deciding factor. It will come down to will and luck. Who wants it more, and who gets the bounces.

 

[Juxtaposer]

he is pretty much a 60-70 point player. which even in the new dead puck era we are going through is not even remotely close to a top 5 player. i don't care how good defensively he is (he is not that good to make up the ground in his offensive game).

With due respect, I think he is that good defensively.

 

[do0glas]

Kopitar is a great player. But we have three players who smoke him at ES. Btw kopitar spends most of his time with a top 5 scorer and a top 10 winger. *

I don't see gaborik changing that.

What I do see is that a kopitar line would likely out possess a couture line for instance. Something we should be ready for.

*=not my opinion

 

[Barrie22]

With due respect, I think he is that good defensively.

He isn't even as good as toews and toews isn't even a top 5 player in the nhl.

He isn't even top 5 in the west let alone in the league. Toews, getzlaf, marleau, thornton, hossa. Are all players i would take over kopitar in the west. That doesn't even involve kane, sharp.

And then you have crosby, malkin, ovechkin, stamkos, tavares in the east. Then there are the kessels, bergeron, giroux.

Kopitar is barely a top 10 player let alone a top 5 player.

 

[Zeroz]

Butt check vid, close up. T'was a hard hit.
https://mediacru.sh/58_wqjm7FnLB

 

[Barrie22]

Butt check vid, close up. T'was a hard hit.
https://mediacru.sh/58_wqjm7FnLB

It was a turning point to the game, but he is lucky he didn't get a hitting from behind or boarding penalty on that hit.

Guess him hitting like a new comer to the world of hitting makes it look like they just ran into each other instead of burns planting him hard.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Kopitar is so overrated.

 

[FeedingFrenzy]

Something else I just looked up... people here talk about how we get no offense from our blue line and how that is bad news for the playoffs etc etc.

Kings defensemen: 20 goals, 118 points
Sharks defensemen: 29 goals, 137 points

If we're so screwed, then what are they? They're entire system which allows them to be so stout defensively is also not conducive to offensive production. Put on top of that that their forward depth in terms of skill and scoring is no where close to the Sharks... I really don't get it

Put on top of that that if they hadn't been screwed with the BS over the boards penalty in game 2 they would have beat LA in 5 games last year. Without Torres. Without Nieto (or Hertl if he's back). Without the improvements from Braun and Demers. Without the likes of Pavelski and Burns and others having career years...

I really don't want to argue back and forth comparing LA and SJ though. If/when we meet them in the playoffs there'll be plenty of time for that when it comes around. It's a waste of time and energy right now.

How dare you make a point

That is the problem. YOU think that Kopitar is a top 5 player. YOU think Doughty is the best defenseman. YOU think Williams is a top 10 winger. Etc Etc.
I think Kopitar is amazing defensively but lacks on the offensive upside compared to other contenders' top line centers. I think Doughty might be the most purely talented Dman in the league, but he also plays softer minutes than a lot of the other top Dmen. And as someone on twitter pointed out to me... he plays a ton of PP minutes and yet has almost the same number of even strength points as Vlasic does. I completely disagree on Williams (though he does always seem to hurt the Sharks so maybe if he got to play all 82 games against us lol). I think Muzzin plays super soft minutes on top of being propped up by playing next to Doughty and is in fact overrated by the stats community (which I consider myself a part of). I think their young guys are good and an upgrade for them. I like them a lot... but they're not producing points either right now. I see lots of holes, especially offensively.

The reason you can't see it is because you refuse to accept that your opinion is not the be all end all. You look at those players and you see the skills or potential. But you have to also look at the actual results and production and those things don't necessarily support everything you believe. Which is fine as I was saying. You're entitled to believe what you want. And maybe all that potential based on what you see as superior talent comes out in the playoffs and beats down all opposition. It could happen. But what could also happen is you could be wrong. And the fact that you can't acknowledge that you might be wrong, that you can't even bring yourself to see any point that contradicts your own is why I find your statements arrogant and presumptuous. You assume that your evaluation of the players or team is the only correct way to see it and you dismiss any differing view.

As far as LA being 'unstoppable' since the break... I really just don't know what you're seeing. Yes they look better and are scoring more since the break. But they've also played mostly abysmal defensive and possession teams.

Colorado (27th FF%, 14th GAA)
Calgary - twice (26th FF%, 25th GAA)
Carolina (25th FF%, 19th GAA)
Montreal - without Price (21st FF%, 10th GAA)
Winnipeg (18th FF%, 21st GAA)
Edmonton (28th FF%, 28th GAA)
Toronto (29th FF%, 26th GAA)
Anaheim (16th FF%, 7th GAA)
Phoenix (17th FF%, 17th GAA)
Washington (22nd FF%, 22nd GAA)

It's nice for them that they've been scoring more. And it will probably give them some confidence they had lost when they went through that major drought. But they haven't faced a single team in the top half of the league possession wise since the break. And in the only 2 games facing a top 10 defense, the opponent was missing their top goalie (Price) and LA still only scored 2 goals or LA only scored 1 goal and lost (Anaheim).

So no. I absolutely do not see what you see. In fact I think you are letting your admiration of some of their excellent individual players (and they have several top players) cloud your perception of the team as a whole. And conversely are underrating the Sharks because we are so familiar with them that we sometimes see the flaws way more strongly than the assets.

[Mod]

There are a handful of posters on here who think they professional scouts or great hockey minds while the rest are just fools. Stats are the end all be all and the human factor never comes into play for these people.

I do enjoy your posts, keep up the good work

 

[hohosaregood]

You guys are nuts. It's Dwight King and Trevor Lewis that gets it done for the kings. Ain't no thing without Dwight King. Lewis >>>>>> Kopitar. King>>>>>>>>>>>Doughty. Nolan>>Quick.

 

[Juxtaposer]

He isn't even as good as toews and toews isn't even a top 5 player in the nhl.

He isn't even top 5 in the west let alone in the league. Toews, getzlaf, marleau, thornton, hossa. Are all players i would take over kopitar in the west. That doesn't even involve kane, sharp.

And then you have crosby, malkin, ovechkin, stamkos, tavares in the east. Then there are the kessels, bergeron, giroux.

Kopitar is barely a top 10 player let alone a top 5 player.

Kopitar is absolutely better defensively than Toews. Toews is the overrated one. And seriously, Hossa over Kopitar?

 

[Barrie22]

Kopitar is absolutely better defensively than Toews. Toews is the overrated one. And seriously, Hossa over Kopitar?

You are the one over rating players, you are the one that said kopitar is a top 5 player in the league. So you are saying he is better then crosby, ovechkin, stamkos, tavares, malkin.

Kopitar just does not take over games on the score sheet like the best players in the league. In his near 600 games in the league, he has only 31 games where he has put up 3+ points in a game. And only 3 times has he ever gotten 4 points or more.

For him to be even remotely close to being top 5 he would have to be so dominant defensively ( we both know he is no where close to that level) that he just blows every other player out of the water when he is on the ice.

I can be wrong on the line, but wasn't it kopitars line that was absolutely destroyed last year in the playoffs against thornton?

 

[Mafoofoo]

I can be wrong on the line, but wasn't it kopitars line that was absolutely destroyed last year in the playoffs against thornton?

No that was the Booze brothers line that was being murdered by Thorntons line. Kopitar was ******** all over Coutures line until Jumbo came in and put a stop to that.

 

[Evincar]

I agree that Kopitar has been better than Toews defensively this season.

Kopitar GA/60

On 1.44
Off 1.87

Toews GA/60

On 2.32
Off 2.01

I dont agree that LA is unbeatable, especially when they wont get home ice in the playoffs in the 1st round.

 

[Juxtaposer]

For him to be even remotely close to being top 5 he would have to be so dominant defensively ( we both know he is no where close to that level) that he just blows every other player out of the water when he is on the ice.

He is that dominant defensively. I'll answer the rest of your post later.

 

[Felys]

There was no dive. He hit him hard. You can see it on his face when he hit him.

I think it was the lumber sale that did it for me. Guess it doesn't help that I think Perry is a skilled player with no class. He really has no business doing the things he does.

 

[hohosaregood]

He is that dominant defensively. I'll answer the rest of your post later.

While I also think that Kopitar is better than Toews, I disagree with the general sentiment of your argument.

 

[Juxtaposer]

While I also think that Kopitar is better than Toews, I disagree with the general sentiment of your argument.

Why?

 

[Gene Parmesan]

I think it was the lumber sale that did it for me. Guess it doesn't help that I think Perry is a skilled player with no class. He really has no business doing the things he does.

That's what makes him effective. He's a skilled player but gets under your skin with antics and then scores a back breaking goal.