GDT: Ducks @ Arizona | 6:00

[PhoenyX]

I'm all for trying Bieksa with Stoner. I know it sounds like at train wreck on paper, but Bieksa can't possibly be any worse than he is right now. Plus, he'll be playing fewer minutes against weaker competition. And who knows, Bieksa might actually benefit from playing with a guy who knows how to play a simple game. It will also free up Vatanen to play in the top 4 where he absolutely belongs.

 

[Ducks DVM]

The media thrived on click bait before it even existed.

Or rather, before it existed in internet form.

I've had people, in print, say literally the exact opposite of what I told them on a recorded conversation. And there's nothing you can do about it.

Some of it is malicious, but some of it is just pure stupidity and a lack of willingness to educate themselves on something too though.

 

[Sojourn]

I've had people, in print, say literally the exact opposite of what I told them on a recorded conversation. And there's nothing you can do about it.

Some of it is malicious, but some of it is just pure stupidity and a lack of willingness to educate themselves on something too though.

That's exactly why I'd like to hear the question Getzlaf was responding to.

It could have been a frustrated response from a player who is having a frustrating season... or it could be the media being the media.

 

[Nurmagomedov]

That's not a smart thing to say regardless of what the question is.

 

[Ducks DVM]

I'm all for trying Bieksa with Stoner. I know it sounds like at train wreck on paper, but Bieksa can't possibly be any worse than he is right now. Plus, he'll be playing fewer minutes against weaker competition. And who knows, Bieksa might actually benefit from playing with a guy who knows how to play a simple game. It will also free up Vatanen to play in the top 4 where he absolutely belongs.

I'm about here as well. The question though is what do the additional minutes on the young players do to them? Can they handle them? Can they handle them over the entire season? It's not as simple as "cut Bieksa's minutes". Our defense was once again built on a soft sandy foundation of hope.

 

[Sojourn]

You have ideas?

I've only heard you complain about Bieska the last 3 weeks. Guess it's easy for your ideas to stand alone when they're so obvious. How brave of you.

Since you edited...

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=106126943&postcount=224

This is back in the off-season, when we acquired him.

I think a lot of us are uncomfortable with the idea of Bieksa as a top pairing guy. I certainly am, at any rate. The impression I have of Bieksa is that he can play some pretty good minutes, but he can't handle the responsibilities.

I spent a fair bit of the off-season arguing that Bieksa, in a top pairing role, is a bad idea. Your convenient recall needs work.

How about this?

On paper, I think we're worse defensively than we were heading into the playoffs. It's a little bit different, I think, if you look at the start of last season. Having Despres instead of Lovejoy, for example, when we know how underwhelming Lovejoy was, is noteworthy. But we're also minus Beauchemin now, who was one half of, what was, our top D pairing for the majority of the season. I'm not really confident in Bieksa's ability to replace him, and we don't know how he'd do with Lindholm. That seems like a wash, at best, but it could very easily(and more likely) be a downgrade

The X-factor is, in my opinion, our young D. What do we get from Lindholm? Vatanen? Fowler? Those three could, possibly, help bring our defense above what it was, but I certainly don't think there is any guarantee of that. We need the Fowler we saw in the playoffs, and we need to see continued improvement from Lindholm and Vatanen, for us to be improved there, I think.

or this?

No, Bieksa is simply taller. Height is not the same as size. Shea Theodore is 6'1". Are you going to say he's "bigger" than Beauchemin? In hockey, size is also mass. As in, muscle mass. You can be pedantic, and say that Bieksa is bigger, simply because he's taller, but where it actually matters Beauchemin is the stronger player. He's bigger. He isn't taller, but he's bigger.



You mean the analysis that suggests Beauchemin is better defensively? That Beauchemin was relied on more heavily in defensive situations, and did well in those situations. At least in Anaheim. Bieksa, on the other hand, looks as if he was used less heavily, and hasn't been as good with the opportunities.



A big part of it? He was 5th, amongst their defensemen, in SH TOI. That puts him just behind Luca Sbisa, for the record. I'm certain Bieksa was a part of it, but a big part of it? The evidence doesn't really play that out. In fact, the last year Bieksa was top 2 in shorthanded TOI on his team for defensemen was 2011-2012.

So, while your argument regarding the difference in SH ice time is statistically true, it's also misleading and inaccurate. All you need to do is look a little deeper, and you'd see that Bieksa was not as heavily used for Vancouver as Beauchemin was for Anaheim. That does matter, when you're trying to make points about goals against, and the like. Hockey is a team sport, and Bieksa was a 2nd unit PK'er, on a superior PK'ing team, while Beauchemin was a 1st unit PK'er, on a fairly average PK'er team. That doesn't necessarily place one player over the other, but I'd have a difficult time labeling Bieksa as a better penalty killer when he was used in a lesser role on a better penalty killing team. Not only were Bieksa's responsibilities less, but hockey is a team sport, and players will benefit, or suffer, from team issues. Special teams are a team issue.

And this?

Did you just completely ignore what I said about Bieksa being 5th in PK TOI for Vancouver D? You're going to focus on those 20 seconds, aren't you? And just ignore the fact that Bieksa played less penalty kill minutes than Luca Sbisa? Or that Hamhuis, Edler, and Tanev also had more PK minutes? No, I don't think the 20 seconds a game insinuates a much bigger role. However, I do think Beauchemin being 1st in PK time in Anaheim, and Bieksa being 5th in Vancouver insinuates a bigger role.

I don't watch Vancouver closely. I do watch them. I do think Bieksa is a pretty solid PK'er, as a 2nd unit guy, a good one, certainly, but a 2nd unit guy. I'm not confident he can replace Beauchemin as a 1st unit guy, and I'm certainly not confident he is as good as Beauchemin defensively overall, whether it's at even strength or on the penalty kill. Wasn't that your original argument? That Bieksa is better? Yes, I do disagree with you. I think Bieksa skates better, but I don't think he's as good defensively, and I think he's much more prone to mental mistakes than Beauchemin(which is especially noteworthy, since Beauchemin was known for those). He's not a guy who I have any faith in as a top pairing guy, and that's exactly the role Beauchemin was relied on. Maybe not a great top pairing guy, but in terms of responsibilities you'd be hard pressed to find a guy who was relied on more than Beauchemin, and more consistently. Do I think Bieksa can replace that? No. No, I don't. Anaheim is going to need to make up that difference elsewhere, and as I said before, I suspect it will be with our younger D: Vatanen, Lindholm, Fowler, and Despres. Bieksa is a downgrade.

Did I imagine Bieksa would be this bad? No. I'm not sure anyone here did. Imagine my surprise.

This is why your arguments are so shallow. All you need to do is dig a little deeper to find out how flawed they are.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Bieksa has to be taken out of the lineup, I don't know how this GM, his scouts, and this coaching staff cannot see how awful he is how many more games are they willing to lose to not admit this mistake? Seriously we'd probably be about 2 wins better with Holzer in his place.

Murray still has yet to take any accountability for his horrible moves....hagelin and bieksa, two total wastes of cap room.

 

[The Duck Knight]

get bieksa out of the lineup and you'll see immediate improvement, he is constantly in the middle of goals against they've got to cut the cord on this guy before it's too late he is that bad.

Exactly. This team is fragile enough mentally as it is. They don't need Bieksa out there bleeding goals when they fold if they go down 1 or 2 in quick succession.

 

[DaDucks*]

See last 3 weeks

 

[Getzmonster]

Again I'd want to know what question he was answering.

Context, what a concept.

Is it that tough to think that some AZ reporter took something Getz said out of context to make it look inflammatory? Are people this clueless, or just this eager to rage at the captain?


Show me the full Q and A and then we can determine Getzy's level of stupidity.

 

[70sSanO]

We are visiting our kids in Arizona and we usually go to a Ducks game when they are in town. First game I've gone to this year, and they look so much worse in person, especially Getzlaf and Bieksa. Hagelin gets a pass from me because he puts out more effort in one period than Getzlaf does in a week of games. To watch them play so undisciplined is so tough to watch. I cannot believe Boudreau is still there. All they do is dump and chase and reverse the puck. They are really a bad team. My only hope is to remember how bad the Kings looked in 2012 before Sutter showed up. I spent my last $$$ on this team until they do something.

John

 

[George Binks]

I didn't like hockey anyway...

None of us do

 

[Sojourn]

See last 3 weeks

He's definitely had a rough night. Bieksa too.

4th game of the season.

Every shot of Bieksa's gets blocked.

3rd game of the season.

Bieksa seems to struggle with the transition backwards to forwards. At least on the right side. Not sure about the left.

This one will be, 7th? I think?

Bieksa is not a smart player.

Give it up, dude. The *****ing has gotten progressively worse, because Bieksa hasn't improved. More and more, it's impossible to shrug this off as beginning of the season rust.

I didn't get to see any of the pre-season games.

This one you'll love though -

Bieksa reminds me so much of Sbisa, with that casual "I don't give a ****, I'm awesome." attitude.

Your favorite player. Better than Fowler, right? History is not kind to your arguments.

Anyway, moving on. I'm sure everyone is tired of this crap.

 

[Sojourn]

None of us do

I'd like it a lot more if our local team started playing.

 

[George Binks]

I'd like it a lot more if our local team started playing.

Bring back the Bullfrogs!!!

 

[DaDucks*]

Lol I said all you have been doing has been bagging on Bieska, guess it's been longer than 3 weeks. No original ideas

 

[Sojourn]

Bring back the Bullfrogs!!!

I used to enjoy going to the Ice Dogs games too.

 

[Fighter]

We will, lotta garbage in our division

You sure? We got beaten by the Oilers and three times by the Yotes, nuff said.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

Here's some context for you...

Getzlaf was talking about his team’s lack of energy throughout the lineup when a reporter noted that there was no real atmosphere in the arena to help the Ducks’ energy level at the onset.

“Yeah. It’s hard when you come into a building and it’s dead,†Getzlaf said.

“Nothing against the fans. It’s hard to fill a big building like this and have people in it to build your energy so you have to do it yourself. You have to be ready when you step out on the ice and I thought we came out flat.â€

He was disappointed the Arizona fans didn't help the visiting team get up for the game.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

I used to enjoy going to the Ice Dogs games too.

Yeah, the good old days. Dollar beers.

 

[Sojourn]

Lol I said all you have been doing has been bagging on Bieska, guess it's been longer than 3 weeks. No original ideas

If you want original, go read a book. I'm not trying to be creative. I'm discussing what I think works, and what doesn't. Typically, the things that work? Already thought of, and known.

If originality is saying a player is bad because someone else ****ed up, or that Bieksa is a better offensive option, then your idea of original is just an idea that no one else thought up because it's terrible. You could design a tire that is shaped like a pyramid. It would be original. That doesn't mean it's good.

Enjoy your Giza tires. I'll be discussing what makes sense.

 

[Sean Garrity]

I used to enjoy going to the Ice Dogs games too.

Still rock my blue Ice Dogs as my dark jersey for when I play hockey! It gets a lot of compliments.

 

[Bender66]

Bring back the Bullfrogs!!!

Let's roll a 2nd line of Savo Mitrovic and Victor Gervais. Can't be worse than black holes that Kesler and Silv are right now.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Here's some context for you...




He was disappointed the Arizona fans didn't help the visiting team get up for the game.

So, we are ripping on him for agreeing with the reporter, who actually advanced the idea.

Bad Getzlaf! BAD!!!

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

Here's some context for you...




He was disappointed the Arizona fans didn't help the visiting team get up for the game.

You're pretty willing to read into it.

"We didn't have any energy."

"Well, the building was dead, wasn't it?"

"Yeah, that didn't help."

Mod edit