Friedman: Ducks and Trevor Zegras ''likely'' to agree to a bridge deal

[Peasy]

Those point totals came in much lower scoring seasons. Now damn near every well paid forward can hit a PPG. Yet Zegras can't, so what makes those players his comparables? Laine and Debrincat were much better goal scorers, Meier and Tkachuk are the ideal power forward types, and Petersson is flat out better.

This. I've never understood the hype this league has for Zegras. He's good for a few tiktok clips, but as far as actual production he has no business being mentioned with the true stars of the league.

3.02 goals per game average in 2019 to 3.18 goals per game average last year.

Crazy difference. That equals a whopping 13 more goals per team on average...And for a team that was 2nd last in the league in GF last year, it would equal even less.

 

[Panthaz89]

While he may not be good enough for the money the amount he brings in sales will most likely justify it to the GM/Owner.

 

[Crazy8oooo]

Is that right, did I really clearly say "it's not a negotiation"? Here's an honest question for you.

What is the difference between "it's not a negotiation" and "this is not a negotiation between equal parties." Which you helpfully bolded which implies you read the full sentence.

Do these two sentences mean the same thing or not, esp when taken in the context of the overall point of the paragraph? Yes or no.

Good luck figuring this out

At one point you didn't even remember what you even wrote...You replied with, "Also, I never said "an RFA doesn't get to make a counter offer or negotiate." MMC quoted you before you suddenly edited it and admitted you made a mistake and did in fact say it.

As for the bolded above...The main point that you attempted to object to originally was that Zegras couldn't make a counter offer...you claimed he couldn't due to being an RFA and that it isn't a negotiation between equal parties. (so yes, you did say it wasn't a negotiation even though that wasn't the point of the original argument) You continue to move the goal posts....Instead of admitting you are wrong about him not being able to make a counter offer, you're switching up what the argument even begun as. (That he couldn't make a counter offer) You've been moving the goal posts ever since I called you out on it and now you're just trying to gas light me and it's not going to work. Feel free to continue denying what you've said, but it's all documented in the thread. I will not respond to you any further...

 

[PainForShane]

As for the bolded above...The main point that you attempted to object to originally was that Zegras couldn't make a counter offer...you claimed he couldn't due to being an RFA and that it isn't a negotiation between equal parties. (so yes, you did say it wasn't a negotiation even though that wasn't the point of the original argument) You continue to move the goal posts....Instead of admitting you are wrong about him not being able to make a counter offer, you're switching up what the argument even begun as. (That he couldn't make a counter offer) You've been moving the goal posts ever since I called you out on it and now you're just trying to gas light me and it's not going to work. Feel free to continue denying what you've said, but it's all documented in the thread. I will not respond to you any further...

No, that's not even close either of the main points I repeatedly made.

Thx

 

[SlafCaufield]

lol the longer this goes, the more realistic it is that Zegras ends up with the Habs,

you just know Caufield is in his ear right now

 

[12ozPapa]

lol the longer this goes, the more realistic it is that Zegras ends up with the Habs,

you just know Caufield is in his ear right now

Didn’t know Verbeek was no longer the GM and Zegras was no longer an RFA. Wild.

 

[A1LeafNation]

PV trying to cut costs on all fronts.

 

[Osakahaus]

This. I've never understood the hype this league has for Zegras. He's good for a few tiktok clips, but as far as actual production he has no business being mentioned with the true stars of the league.

I've called him a poor mans Barzal and he's really just that. Barzal is very good, skates fast, and dishes the puck well. Zegras is a weaker version but skates much better. Zegras also suffers from playing no defense and looks so stupid when he's forced to play in his own end. The guy is good but the NHL will die on this weird hill that he's the next superstar over someone in Ottawa like Norris or Sanderson.

 

[Leonardo87]

Leo has made me cope with the Zegras hold out.

 

[Ducks DVM]

I've called him a poor mans Barzal and he's really just that. Barzal is very good, skates fast, and dishes the puck well. Zegras is a weaker version but skates much better. Zegras also suffers from playing no defense and looks so stupid when he's forced to play in his own end. The guy is good but the NHL will die on this weird hill that he's the next superstar over someone in Ottawa like Norris or Sanderson.

Yzerman was -58 his first 3 years in the league. You can teach a player to play defense, you can’t teach a player to do what Zegras does.

Am I implying Zegras is the next Yzerman? No. Am I implying that everyone insisting that Zegras is what he is and absolutely cannot improve are speaking nonsense? Yes.

Am I agreeing that Zegras should be paid top dollar because he WILL reach superstar status offensively and/or defensively? Also no, keeping the team salary structure under control is more important. Am I agreeing that after a bridge deal that he could be good enough to break the bank? Yes, and an extra couple million to him when/if he’s actually earned it is a much lower penalty than potentially having to also overpay 3-5 other guys in a couple years IMO.

 

[Jimmybarndoor2]

Yzerman was -58 his first 3 years in the league. You can teach a player to play defense, you can’t teach a player to do what Zegras does.

Am I implying Zegras is the next Yzerman? No. Am I implying that everyone insisting that Zegras is what he is and absolutely cannot improve are speaking nonsense? Yes.

Am I agreeing that Zegras should be paid top dollar because he WILL reach superstar status offensively and/or defensively? Also no, keeping the team salary structure under control is more important. Am I agreeing that after a bridge deal that he could be good enough to break the bank? Yes, and an extra couple million to him when/if he’s actually earned it is a much lower penalty than potentially having to also overpay 3-5 other guys in a couple years IMO.

Don’t disagree with that
Saying he’s not worth 5 million per year to the ducks
And some posters saying he’s very valuable as a trade asset seems to be a contradiction

 

[cheesymc]

lol the longer this goes, the more realistic it is that Zegras ends up with the Habs,

you just know Caufield is in his ear right now

Dream on, he would be a Ranger… or join his buddy Hughes on the Devils.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I've called him a poor mans Barzal and he's really just that. Barzal is very good, skates fast, and dishes the puck well. Zegras is a weaker version but skates much better. Zegras also suffers from playing no defense and looks so stupid when he's forced to play in his own end. The guy is good but the NHL will die on this weird hill that he's the next superstar over someone in Ottawa like Norris or Sanderson.

Everyone looked stupid in Eakins system…. Don’t think his defense is as bad as people want to make it out to be…. But it’s an easy target for the zegras haters.

He’ll be a dynamic offensive player in the nhl for a long while and his defense won’t be as much of an issue when the roster around him is better.

He gets media/league love because his personality is much more interesting to casual fans than guys like Mcdavid matthews eichel and Hughes

 

[12ozPapa]

Everyone looked stupid in Eakins system…. Don’t think his defense is as bad as people want to make it out to be…. But it’s an easy target for the zegras haters.

He’ll be a dynamic offensive player in the nhl for a long while and his defense won’t be as much of an issue when the roster around him is better.

He gets media/league love because his personality is much more interesting to casual fans than guys like Mcdavid matthews eichel and Hughes

I really don’t see the comparison to Barzal at all, to be honest

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I really don’t see the comparison to Barzal at all, to be honest

I didn’t claim that… and I don’t really agree with it… in some plays sure they look similar

 

[PainForShane]

Everyone looked stupid in Eakins system…. Don’t think his defense is as bad as people want to make it out to be…. But it’s an easy target for the zegras haters.

He’ll be a dynamic offensive player in the nhl for a long while and his defense won’t be as much of an issue when the roster around him is better.

He gets media/league love because his personality is much more interesting to casual fans than guys like Mcdavid matthews eichel and Hughes

I'd argue hard it's more his Michigan goals than his personality. His personality doesn't hurt though esp compared with other players.

Either way your overall point is a good one, far more casual fans know who Zegras is (and will choose to watch him play) compared to players who are objectively better but not as much of a highlight reel. He's probably a top 5 draw in the league at this point, especially when you consider casual fans make up most of the ticket sales esp in a non-traditional mkt like Anaheim.

All that to say he's easily worth more than the 4x3 lowball offer that is being widely reported. And I don't even like the guy

 

[12ozPapa]

I didn’t claim that… and I don’t really agree with it… in some plays sure they look similar

Oh I know, sorry, I meant to reply to the original post

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I'd argue hard it's more his Michigan goals than his personality. His personality doesn't hurt though esp compared with other players.

Either way your overall point is a good one, far more casual fans know who Zegras is (and will choose to watch him play) compared to players who are objectively better but not as much of a highlight reel. He's probably a top 5 draw in the league at this point, especially when you consider casual fans make up most of the ticket sales esp in a non-traditional mkt like Anaheim.

All that to say he's easily worth more than the 4x3 lowball offer that is being widely reported. And I don't even like the guy

The way I put it on ducks boards
If the ducks are going under 5 on bridge deal…. Then ducks are in wrong

If zegras is asking for over 6.5 on Bridge than zegras is wrong… if he wants to sign over 6.5 he needs to give us 7-8 years

Somewhere between 5-6.5 over 2-3 years is a fair contract from both side

As far as potential goes /shrug he’s been on some pretty awful teams offensively and defensively…. But hes put up 2 solid seasons. I just wonder if PV has a diff image for the roster and zegras doesn’t fit that image

 

[dracom]

I've called him a poor mans Barzal and he's really just that. Barzal is very good, skates fast, and dishes the puck well. Zegras is a weaker version but skates much better. Zegras also suffers from playing no defense and looks so stupid when he's forced to play in his own end. The guy is good but the NHL will die on this weird hill that he's the next superstar over someone in Ottawa like Norris or Sanderson.

no one has ever said he's the next superstar. seems like people think any player getting some media attention is supposed to be a superstar.

 

[Neutrinos]

I'm not really sure what the problem is

8 million per for 8 years should be satisfactory for both sides

 

[John Mandalorian]

lol the longer this goes, the more realistic it is that Zegras ends up with the Habs,

you just know Caufield is in his ear right now

They’re both going to South Beach.

 

[PainForShane]

The way I put it on ducks boards
If the ducks are going under 5 on bridge deal…. Then ducks are in wrong

If zegras is asking for over 6.5 on Bridge than zegras is wrong… if he wants to sign over 6.5 he needs to give us 7-8 years

Somewhere between 5-6.5 over 2-3 years is a fair contract from both side

As far as potential goes /shrug he’s been on some pretty awful teams offensively and defensively…. But hes put up 2 solid seasons. I just wonder if PV has a diff image for the roster and zegras doesn’t fit that image

100% agree with everything you said, imo 5.5-6m AAV for a bridge is what I would expect / is reasonable, our numbers almost exactly match up. Which is kind of funny because I'm so low on the guy and I'm guessing you're not, yet we still came up with exactly the same salary figure.

Re: the bolded, this is a longer conversation see below. Would love to hear your thoughts / perspective, I'm just a neutral here.

***

Based on how Pat Verbeek played, I can't imagine he would've spent a high pick on a player like Zegras, I just don't see it. So, not enough info either way, but I'm with you maybe Verbeek might prefer to have a grittier two-way guy if he could. Like if the Caps offered a package based around Ryan Leonard+ would Verbeek really say no? Obvi that probably doesn't make sense for the Caps (at least not until they can see what Backstrom can do post-injury) but you get the idea.

Anyway if Verbeek is maybe looking to move on, a lowball offer followed by a trade would be a way for first time GM PV to tell his upper mgmt some version of "hey, I tried, he just didn't want to sign" while also making the team grittier / tougher to play against. We can all see that's what he's trying to do anyway with acquisitions like Vatrano, Gudas, Lyabushkin, Robert Hagg etc. Not saying this is definitely what's Verbeek is thinking (who knows) but definitely agree that it's possible. What do you think?

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

100% agree with everything you said, imo 5.5-6m AAV for a bridge is what I would expect / is reasonable, our numbers almost exactly match up. Which is kind of funny because I'm so low on the guy and I'm guessing you're not, yet we still came up with exactly the same salary figure.

Re: the bolded, this is a longer conversation see below. Would love to hear your thoughts / perspective, I'm just a neutral here.

***

Based on how Pat Verbeek played, I can't imagine he would've spent a high pick on a player like Zegras, I just don't see it. So, not enough info either way, but I'm with you maybe Verbeek might prefer to have a grittier two-way guy if he could. Like if the Caps offered a package based around Ryan Leonard+ would Verbeek really say no? Obvi that probably doesn't make sense for the Caps (at least not until they can see what Backstrom can do post-injury) but you get the idea.

Anyway if Verbeek is maybe looking to move on, a lowball offer followed by a trade would be a way for first time GM PV to tell his upper mgmt some version of "hey, I tried, he just didn't want to sign" while also making the team grittier / tougher to play against. We can all see that's what he's trying to do anyway with acquisitions like Vatrano, Gudas, Lyabushkin, Robert Hagg etc. Not saying this is definitely what's Verbeek is thinking (who knows) but definitely agree that it's possible. What do you think?

Honestly no clue…. But most of what you said is correct…. And the situation does make you wonder how PV sees zegras (or drysdale for that matter) going forward.

He didn’t draft either player…. So he def doesn’t have any bond to them. But I guess we’ll find out more as the situation moves forward

 

[Chips]

I really don’t see the comparison to Barzal at all, to be honest

Yea points production so far is basically the main comparable. Not necessarily play style but they both have their own strengths


Zegras did look a little better away from puck in his first season than his second, idk if that’s development or discouragement with the team on the ice and not trying as hard

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

I feel like hf has a bunch of creeps that approach trade proposals like they approach women.


Hey, Zegras, you'd be so happy here we can offer you the world.

Ducks fans: we don't want a late 1st, f***ing Joel Armia and you're 15th ra ked prospect.

Hab fan: well f*** you Zegras sucks and no one wants him. You're fat and ugly and not as skilled as you think