Friedman: Ducks and Trevor Zegras ''likely'' to agree to a bridge deal

[centipede2233]

Meier…was never considered a great contract, but at least made it to 30 goals.
Pettersen was essentially PPG, not a comparable.
Tkachuk was essentially PPG and hit 34 goals, not a comparable.
Laine had scored 36/44/30 goals, not a comparable.
Debrincat scored 41G, not a comparable.

40 goals scorers get paid more than 23 goal scorers. PPG players get paid more than 0.8PPG players. 30 goals players get paid more than 23 goal players. The salary cap has gone up exactly 1M since 2019-20, there’s zero reason to be applying much inflation to an RFA bridge contract.

It’s this type of reasoning and facts that has me fed up and just doesn’t belong here. You’re making way too much sense and I am not gonna take it any longer!

 

[Peasy]

Meier…was never considered a great contract, but at least made it to 30 goals.
Pettersen was essentially PPG, not a comparable.
Tkachuk was essentially PPG and hit 34 goals, not a comparable.
Laine had scored 36/44/30 goals, not a comparable.
Debrincat scored 41G, not a comparable.

40 goals scorers get paid more than 23 goal scorers. PPG players get paid more than 0.8PPG players. 30 goals players get paid more than 23 goal players. The salary cap has gone up exactly 1M since 2019-20, there’s zero reason to be applying much inflation to an RFA bridge contract.

Never said he should get as much as those players, just simply that he doesnt deserve 2m+ less like others in here were saying. Also, all those players except maybe Pettersson had much better talent surrounding them. They would fall in the 3-4 range in their teams for points. Look at what Debrincat just did without Kane lol. Zegras has been #1 and then 2 for the ducks in scoring (2nd in ppg both seasons). I just find it crazy people are acting like 6x3 is some awful contract for what hes done so far.

If people think he should be signing for 4x3 then theyre going to be extremely disappointed whenever he does sign.

Also, the cap has gone up 2m since 2019, and while that hasnt lead to more money being dished out overall, the top players in the league (which you can argue Zegras falls in this category, hes easily a top 6 player) have still continued to take a bigger slice of the pie while your middle of the line up players lose the most.

Also, if these are all such terrible comparisons for him, which ones would you suggest people use? (bridge comparables, theyre obviously not doing long term)

Edit: another one:

Kucherov, 4.76m (6.5% of cap) x 3, highest was 66p in 77 games (but 30g). That would be 5.5mx3 today based on cap hit %.

5.5-6x3 seems like completely fair value to me based on what hes done in his situation.

Obviously a fan wants every contract to be a steal, but for it to be a steal you need 1 of 2 things. You either need the player to want to take a discount and be okay with being slightly underpaid, or you need the player to completely break out and reach a new level after signing a long term deal.

 

[Crazy8oooo]

Ha, that's funny.

The BATNA is the single most important thing to keep in mind / determine before entering negotiations. If you actually understand the idea, it's beyond laughable that you would choose not to care.

EDIT: I did say "an RFA doesn't get to make a counter offer" and that was a mistake. What I should've said was something around the RFA's counter offer not having leverage or weight behind it, which looking back at my post seems very much implied based on the argument.

In the meantime, I have no desire nor is it my responsibility to fix your ignorance about this. My point is a compound point around leverage and the stupidity of unnecessarily creating an adverse negotiation if you want your star player to stick around, seems like you apparently are either unwilling or unable to understand, again this is not my problem or responsibility to fix.

To everyone else, in negotiation BATNA stands for "best alternative to a negotiated agreement" and is inarguably the most important consideration when determining leverage in any negotiation. The wikipedia page is pretty decent and imo worth a quick look if you're curious about basic negotiation theory.

Best alternative to a negotiated agreement - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Good, glad you finally admitted you were wrong. You moving the goal posts has nothing to do with that or my rebuttal to your original response.

 

[PainForShane]

Good, glad you finally admitted you were wrong. You moving the goal posts has nothing to do with that or my rebuttal to your original response.

You clearly have trouble understanding words and context.

Better luck next time

 

[Osakahaus]

Clearly Anaheim doesn't want to keep him or Drysdale, but they can spend money on Strome and Killorn

Make it make sense

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Clearly Anaheim doesn't want to keep him or Drysdale, but they can spend money on Strome and Killorn

Make it make sense

The fact that you omit the most important facts (age, contract status, RFA vs UFA, etc.) makes it seem like you don't understand how NHL contracts work.

 

[McDonald19]

Clearly Anaheim doesn't want to keep him or Drysdale, but they can spend money on Strome and Killorn

Make it make sense

Overpaying for UFAs and playing hardball with our RFAs. That’s how we roll.

 

[Osakahaus]

The fact that you omit the most important facts (age, contract status, RFA vs UFA, etc.) makes it seem like you don't understand how NHL contracts work.

they have so much cap space. This is a non-issue that Anaheim is making an issue. I understand RFA status but come on. You can't find a way to give Drysdale or Zegras a very fair shake?

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

they have so much cap space. This is a non-issue that Anaheim is making an issue. I understand RFA status but come on. You can't find a way to give Drysdale or Zegras a very fair shake?

Not an ANA defender, but I can see a situation where it would make sense to hold firm here. It could set a bad precedent when you're trying to lay the foundations of your long term core.

We also don't know what these players are asking for -- could be out of whack with what he thinks he'll end up being able to afford to pay the other (better) stars on the team.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Not an ANA defender, but I can see a situation where it would make sense to hold firm here. It could set a bad precedent when you're trying to lay the foundations of your long term core.

We also don't know what these players are asking for -- could be out of whack with what he thinks he'll end up being able to afford to pay the other (better) stars on the team.

Yea people jumping to conclusions…. There’s obviously risk potential in this…. But it does set a precedent for guys like mctavish carlsson Mintyukov etc.

Pretty sure our offer for terry started at 3.5 mil also, and I think we got a pretty fair contract with him.

Zegras and his agent arnt in the wrong for wanting more either, just negotiations. My biggest issue is that zegras and drysdale have the most to gain from cronin so it l disappointed they are missing this time

 

[Peasy]

“It doesn’t sound optimistic.. The team doesn't seem like they're gonna budge, the players don't seem like they're gonna budge. Someone told me that Anaheim is just risking something here. I would be very careful if I was the Ducks…Verbeek is tough. On some level he manages like he played.. and I’m not sure you can do that. Sometimes you need to bend more than you would like to to get players on your team to buy into what you’re selling. I just wonder if he’s just not interested in doing that”

39:40

Would be a shame if Zegras' and Drysdale's years are derailed because of these contract negotiations.

Nylander was awful when he came back mid season in December after his hold out.

 

[Crazy8oooo]

And yes, a 3 year deal of, say 5.5 to 6 would be completely reasonable. A lowball offer of 4x3 (that Verbeek is holding to past the start of training camp) is not even close. Keep in mind Z is an RFA so he doesn't get to make a counter-offer, this is not a negotiation between equal parties. Put another way, Ducks have all the leverage here bc Zegras doesn't have a BATNA (I'd encourage you to look the word up if you don't know what it means).
You clearly have trouble understanding words and context.

You clearly have trouble understanding words and context.

Oh, I understood perfectly. You clearly said he doesn’t get to make a counter offer and it’s not a negotiation.

Yet, you continue trying to defend it even after realizing you made a mistake. lol

 

[CrazyDuck4u]

Overpaying for UFAs and playing hardball with our RFAs. That’s how we roll.

Its about setting a precedent to the upcoming RFAS..

 

[PainForShane]

Oh, I understood perfectly. You clearly said he doesn’t get to make a counter offer and it’s not a negotiation.

Yet, you continue trying to defend it even after realizing you made a mistake. lol

Is that right, did I really clearly say "it's not a negotiation"? Here's an honest question for you.

What is the difference between "it's not a negotiation" and "this is not a negotiation between equal parties." Which you helpfully bolded which implies you read the full sentence.

Do these two sentences mean the same thing or not, esp when taken in the context of the overall point of the paragraph? Yes or no.

Good luck figuring this out

 

[Osakahaus]

Its about setting a precedent to the upcoming RFAS..

And if the Ducks aren't able to pay Zegras then why bother?

 

[CrazyDuck4u]

And if the Ducks aren't able to pay Zegras then why bother?

You don't get it do you? Can they pay him? Yes.. Should they pay him? Well that's up to the management.. As of right now.. Zegras brings in young fans with his stylish plays... But PV knows that doesn't win you cups...This has everything to do with The agent trying to capitalize on his agents fame . More money for Z.. More money for him.. PV is a tough negotiator.. He is offering him a prove it deal...Z thinks he is proved enough.. There is the problem right there.. The worth of the player..

 

[PainForShane]

Not an ANA defender, but I can see a situation where it would make sense to hold firm here. It could set a bad precedent when you're trying to lay the foundations of your long term core.

We also don't know what these players are asking for -- could be out of whack with what he thinks he'll end up being able to afford to pay the other (better) stars on the team.

This is all true, but imo the question is where do you hold firm. If you're holding firm at 4x3 (which is reportedly what Verbeek is doing here), that is a different thing than holding firm at 5.5 or 6m x 3, which seems to me like fair value, or close to it at least. Some ppl in this thread think 4x3 seems fair, if Verbeek agrees this standoff might go on for quite a while. And it might not, still early and all it takes is one phone call anyway.

That said, it doesn't help that Verbeek just gave a 33 year old Gudas an identical 4x3, which even included some no trade protection. Yes there is a difference between RFA / UFA but Zegras' camp must be looking at that and wondering wtf is going on. Who is more important to your future Radko Gudas or Zegras you know?

Overpaying for UFAs and playing hardball with your core RFAs is what's happening here, seems like a weird way to go about things for a team that's still rebuilding

 

[Osakahaus]

You don't get it do you? Can they pay him? Yes.. Should they pay him? Well that's up to the management.. As of right now.. Zegras brings in young fans with his stylish plays... But PV knows that doesn't win you cups...This has everything to do with The agent trying to capitalize on his agents fame . More money for Z.. More money for him.. PV is a tough negotiator.. He is offering him a prove it deal...Z thinks he is proved enough.. There is the problem right there.. The worth of the player..

PV is going to realize that the Ducks NEED to keep him, and they should get him signed ASAP or its another long season in Anaheim.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

This is all true, but imo the question is where do you hold firm. If you're holding firm at 4x3 (which is reportedly what Verbeek is doing here), that is a different thing than holding firm at 5.5 or 6m x 3, which seems to me like fair value, or close to it at least. Some ppl in this thread think 4x3 seems fair, if Verbeek agrees this standoff might go on for quite a while. And it might not, still early and all it takes is one phone call anyway.

That said, it doesn't help that Verbeek just gave a 33 year old Gudas an identical 4x3, which also included some no trade protection. Yes there is a difference between RFA / UFA but Zegras' camp must be looking at that and wondering wtf is going on. Who is more important to your future Radko Gudas or Zegras you know?

Overpaying for UFAs and playing hardball with your core RFAs is what's happening here, seems like a weird way to go about things for a team that's still rebuilding

There is such little reporting on what position either side has dug into that I personally wouldn't jump to any of the handful of conclusions that you're jumping to here. There are so many potential scenarios!

 

[PainForShane]

There is such little reporting on what position either side has dug into that I personally wouldn't jump to any of the handful of conclusions that you're jumping to here. There are so many potential scenarios!

Fair point. This all just seems silly though, and also completely unnecessary. From Verbeek's perspective, it's a bridge and you have cap space, within reason who cares. Hope the Ducks are able to figure something out here fairly soon

 

[Golden_Jet]

I want to be clear. I don't think the Ducks would be walking away. They would just have to accept signing it. After the one year deal and correct me if I am wrong because I am not well versed in arbitration rules. I believe Zegras will be able to enter arbitration and point towards is Qualifying Offer etc.

(Just to get a contract and an appropriate salary for his talents)

There very few teams that could offer sheet him, with the cap room.

 

[McDonald19]

Its about setting a precedent to the upcoming RFAS..

Yeah, I know. Was just trying to be funny.

 

[RationalExpectations]

Yea people jumping to conclusions…. There’s obviously risk potential in this…. But it does set a precedent for guys like mctavish carlsson Mintyukov etc.

Pretty sure our offer for terry started at 3.5 mil also, and I think we got a pretty fair contract with him.

Zegras and his agent arnt in the wrong for wanting more either, just negotiations. My biggest issue is that zegras and drysdale have the most to gain from cronin so it l disappointed they are missing this time

On the one hand I respect Verbeek for not setting precedents like Dubas did, on the other I don t get paying Killorn 6.3m which is the Tavares version of the contract.

 

[Ace]

Its about setting a precedent to the upcoming RFAS..

The only precedent it sets is young players wanting out to any of 31 organizations that will pay them the going rates.

 

[JKG33]

Meier 6mx4. Best season was 66p 78 games, signed 2019
Pettersson 7.35mx3, Best season was 66p 68 games, signed 2021
M Tkachuk 7mx3, Best season was 77p 80 games, signed 2019
Laine 6.75mx2, Best season was 70p 82 games, signed 2019
Debrincat 6.4mx3, Best season was 76p 82 games, signed 2019

I dont see how Zegras should be getting 2m+ less than these guys, basically 4 years later.

Those point totals came in much lower scoring seasons. Now damn near every well paid forward can hit a PPG. Yet Zegras can't, so what makes those players his comparables? Laine and Debrincat were much better goal scorers, Meier and Tkachuk are the ideal power forward types, and Petersson is flat out better.

Meier…was never considered a great contract, but at least made it to 30 goals.
Pettersen was essentially PPG, not a comparable.
Tkachuk was essentially PPG and hit 34 goals, not a comparable.
Laine had scored 36/44/30 goals, not a comparable.
Debrincat scored 41G, not a comparable.

40 goals scorers get paid more than 23 goal scorers. PPG players get paid more than 0.8PPG players. 30 goals players get paid more than 23 goal players. The salary cap has gone up exactly 1M since 2019-20, there’s zero reason to be applying much inflation to an RFA bridge contract.

This. I've never understood the hype this league has for Zegras. He's good for a few tiktok clips, but as far as actual production he has no business being mentioned with the true stars of the league.