Dubnyk explains resurgence

oobga

Tier 2 Fan
Aug 1, 2003
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3 good years? lol. His only year that could be considered any good was the lockout year, and even then he found ways to burn us when we were in the playoff hunt. You either have a selective memory, or you're literally one of the only people that would possibly say he had 3 good years as an Oiler.

I've never been one to lay all the blame on goalies, but I know that's very normal for a lot of fans. Lots of arguments over the years on that topic :)

Statistically he finished top 25 (24th and 22nd to be precise) in sav% 2 years on awful tank teams and he was 14th in 12/13. I don't buy the soft goal perception like it only applied to Dubs. All goalies let in stinkers, that's hockey, there are infinite ways a play can go down and make a goalie look foolish. Pick a goalie and watch the goals they let in on nhl.com, you will see many stinkers. Consistency over time is what is important and that is better to go by than selective memory of a bad goal here or there.
 

Tw0Shoes

Registered User
Mar 15, 2007
1,485
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3 good years? lol. His only year that could be considered any good was the lockout year, and even then he found ways to burn us when we were in the playoff hunt. You either have a selective memory, or you're literally one of the only people that would possibly say he had 3 good years as an Oiler.

2010-11 sv% .916
11-12 sv% .914
12-13 sv% .921
 

Lay Z Boy GM

Registered User
Sep 8, 2010
5,638
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Wow lots of people writing him off. I'll admit I was glad we traded him, even though I supported him for a while. The way I see it now is he's actually legit, he's figured out how to fix his major flaw which was dropping too early. He's also had good D in front of him in Minny and Arizona. The guy got screwed by Eakins and also Chabot IMO.
 

K1984

Registered User
Feb 7, 2008
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I've never been one to lay all the blame on goalies, but I know that's very normal for a lot of fans. Lots of arguments over the years on that topic :)

Statistically he finished top 25 (24th and 22nd to be precise) in sav% 2 years on awful tank teams and he was 14th in 12/13. I don't buy the soft goal perception like it only applied to Dubs. All goalies let in stinkers, that's hockey, there are infinite ways a play can go down and make a goalie look foolish. Pick a goalie and watch the goals they let in on nhl.com, you will see many stinkers. Consistency over time is what is important and that is better to go by than selective memory of a bad goal here or there.

Letting in stinkers is one thing, (Grant Fuhr did it on a normal basis), but letting them in when it's a one goal game or in a critical moment is a completely different story. Dubnyk was an ace at that. Trotting out save % numbers to justify that he is a good goalie is like saying that Nicklas Backstrom is better than Jonathan Toews because he has more points. Doesn't tell anything close to the full story.

The guy was complete trash last season, quite possibly the worst goaltender in the NHL. Bad enough in Nashville (gassed multi-goal leads in both games he played for them) that they dealt him and retained salary. Bad enough that he went to Hamilton and sucked there too. The guy had 2 different teams willing to pay him just to not have him on their team. Using hindsight now is very convenient.
 

Mr Positive

Cap Crunch Incoming
Nov 20, 2013
36,499
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Wonder if he would sign in Edm....only 30 spots for a starter....and not many teams need one.....MacT probably burnt that bridge already tho
and Hall burnt that bridge with his comments after Dubnyk was gone.
 

AJGass4

Registered User
Aug 19, 2011
954
0
My god, it's funny. We all wanted him gone and now we are all sad.

He was so bad for us last year. I get we were all around bad, but he lost us a ton of games all on his own.

So I am happy for him, but he did not play good for us.
 

oobga

Tier 2 Fan
Aug 1, 2003
23,795
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Letting in stinkers is one thing, (Grant Fuhr did it on a normal basis), but letting them in when it's a one goal game or in a critical moment is a completely different story. Dubnyk was an ace at that. Trotting out save % numbers to justify that he is a good goalie is like saying that Nicklas Backstrom is better than Jonathan Toews because he has more points. Doesn't tell anything close to the full story.

The guy was complete trash last season, quite possibly the worst goaltender in the NHL. Bad enough in Nashville (gassed multi-goal leads in both games he played for them) that they dealt him and retained salary. Bad enough that he went to Hamilton and sucked there too. The guy had 2 different teams willing to pay him just to not have him on their team. Using hindsight now is very convenient.

I'm not using hindsight at all. I was pretty adamant last year that the main culprit was Eakins and his terrible systems which has gone on to tank more than 1 other goalies sav %, even after adjusting it from the original swarm that no goalie on earth could have stood a chance behind. We've learned since that Dubs struggled with equipment changes and was distracted by a new kid at home as well. He also let stubbornness creep into his personality as the season went terrible and wanted no part of the goalie coach in Nashville wanting to fix his game and by the time he went to Montreal he was just looking for a way to end his season and ended up going back home early to be with his family.

Last season was a disaster for him, everything that went wrong for him basically did, many of which were out of his control. But, in the end it was 1 bad season, out of 4 in his career that he played a good amount of games. And he's recovered from it now, in a way that could have happened with him start part of the Oilers org, especially if Eakins was never hired to start with. Players go through crap in their career and have bad years and Dubs was one of them. He was never for a sure a lost cause though, obviously not looking at him this year. But he sure was a convenient scapegoat for MacT to buy Eakins more time to make 2 other goalies have the worst runs of hockey in their careers.
 
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McDNicks17

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Jul 1, 2010
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He really wasn't a scapegoat though. He was downright awful last season. He single-handedly lost his fair share of games.

He made a major transformation away from this organization. It's very unlikely that Dubnyk would be playing like he is if he stayed with the Oilers. We know he was really committed to learn from Burke. Would he have attended Valiquette's goalie camp if he was still with the Oilers? Who knows?
 

oobga

Tier 2 Fan
Aug 1, 2003
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He really wasn't a scapegoat though. He was downright awful last season. He single-handedly lost his fair share of games.

He made a major transformation away from this organization. It's very unlikely that Dubnyk would be playing like he is if he stayed with the Oilers. We know he was really committed to learn from Burke. Would he have attended Valiquette's goalie camp if he was still with the Oilers? Who knows?

His stats with Arizona were worse than his 12/13 season with us though, so it's not like Burke took him to levels of performance he never was before. Took him a while in Minny to crack the .920 mark he set back in 12/13 and he's kept running with it.

I bet if we just worked with him and decide we're gonna commit to a guy we've developed over half a decade, he likely looks at ways to improve his game last summer. I'm pretty sure I read that the new goalie coach we hired (after Chabot kept his job probably a year+ longer than he should have) is a believer in the same tracking methods.

MacT definitely blamed the season on goaltending and completely ignored Eakins' stupid gameplan and it's contributions to the debacle. So yeah, he was a scapegoat. MacT and Eakins were very fortunate that Scrivens had a hot run when he joined the team to help support the claim, but then Scrivens was under .900 sav% the last month of 13/14 and we all know how the 14/15 season went.
 

Summary

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Oct 13, 2009
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Letting in stinkers is one thing, (Grant Fuhr did it on a normal basis), but letting them in when it's a one goal game or in a critical moment is a completely different story. Dubnyk was an ace at that. Trotting out save % numbers to justify that he is a good goalie is like saying that Nicklas Backstrom is better than Jonathan Toews because he has more points. Doesn't tell anything close to the full story.

The guy was complete trash last season, quite possibly the worst goaltender in the NHL. Bad enough in Nashville (gassed multi-goal leads in both games he played for them) that they dealt him and retained salary. Bad enough that he went to Hamilton and sucked there too. The guy had 2 different teams willing to pay him just to not have him on their team. Using hindsight now is very convenient.

That's just flawed thinking or flat out ignorance. We're to believe that somehow it's not that the other team is better, it's that this goalie lets in goals that are worse. No one earns an important goal anymore, not since Fuhr's day has anyone simply earned a goal in a close game.
 

Summary

Registered User
Oct 13, 2009
658
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He really wasn't a scapegoat though. He was downright awful last season. He single-handedly lost his fair share of games.

He made a major transformation away from this organization. It's very unlikely that Dubnyk would be playing like he is if he stayed with the Oilers. We know he was really committed to learn from Burke. Would he have attended Valiquette's goalie camp if he was still with the Oilers? Who knows?

If we had traded Yakupov three weeks ago...
 

McDNicks17

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His stats with Arizona were worse than his 12/13 season with us though, so it's not like Burke took him to levels of performance he never was before. Took him a while in Minny to crack the .920 mark he set back in 12/13 and he's kept running with it.

I bet if we just worked with him and decide we're gonna commit to a guy we've developed over half a decade, he likely looks at ways to improve his game last summer. I'm pretty sure I read that the new goalie coach we hired (after Chabot kept his job probably a year+ longer than he should have) is a believer in the same tracking methods.

MacT definitely blamed the season on goaltending and completely ignored Eakins' stupid gameplan and it's contributions to the debacle. So yeah, he was a scapegoat. MacT and Eakins were very fortunate that Scrivens had a hot run when he joined the team to help support the claim, but then Scrivens was under .900 sav% the last month of 13/14 and we all know how the 14/15 season went.

Dubnyk loved Chabot. I highly doubt he gets fired if Dubnyk stays.

If we had traded Yakupov three weeks ago...

I don't see how that's even remotely comparable.
 

oobga

Tier 2 Fan
Aug 1, 2003
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Dubnyk loved Chabot. I highly doubt he gets fired if Dubnyk stays.



I don't see how that's even remotely comparable.

Scrivens liked him a lot too from the sound of it. Getting the sense that Chabot was an Eakins-type. Able to get some key players on his side (like how Eakins managed to have Hall in his corner to bypass Ference and talk to MacT about keeping Eakins, and just in general how Eakins was practically Ference's twin off the ice), but little substance behind his coaching. Dubs was really in no position to not be open to a goalie coach change last year. Would definitely have been a a more constructive option than laying the blame of the lost season on him and casting him off.
 

K1984

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Feb 7, 2008
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That's just flawed thinking or flat out ignorance. We're to believe that somehow it's not that the other team is better, it's that this goalie lets in goals that are worse. No one earns an important goal anymore, not since Fuhr's day has anyone simply earned a goal in a close game.

Right. The goalie should never be at fault for abysmal play. Am I ingnorant, or is your memory too short to remember Dubnyk's below minor league play across 3 organizations last season?
 

bucks_oil

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Aug 25, 2005
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Right. The goalie should never be at fault for abysmal play. Am I ingnorant, or is your memory too short to remember Dubnyk's below minor league play across 3 organizations last season?

I don't think anyone here is arguing that Dubnyk played well last year. I think people are saying that a season of abysmal play, after several seasons of solid play on a last-place team is not a reason to flush the toilet.

I was not a huge Dubnyk fan, even when he was playing well, but even I could see that there were some solid tools there and getting him to the next level was going to be done in his head.

It's incredibly terrible for goalies to play on teams that are horrendous defensively. Anyone who has played the position knows that. Just as you forwards/D come to expect a goalie to make certain saves, we goalies expect you to protect us from catastrophic breakdowns. When you see your D/forwards making the same fundamental mistakes, game in, game out, it gets a lot harder to bail them out in the milliseconds after the disappointing mistake is made.

When a goalie let's in a stinker you guys all go "what the ****" and skate to the bench where you talk it over with your linemates/coach and get back on the ice for your next shift with fresh mindset.

When you D or forwards make a terrible, stupid or lazy defensive play the goalie might also say "what the faa.....", but the puck is in the back of the net before you can even finish the thought.

There is no room for mental error with yourself OR with your reaction to your teammates play as a goalie. That's why it is a harder mental position to play.

Translate that to a bottom place team and how do you think the soul gets beaten down. Good on Dubnyk it took 3 seasons for him to break down. And good on him for recovering so quickly.
 

Summary

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Oct 13, 2009
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I don't see how that's even remotely comparable.

By all means keep telling yourself that, but no goalie will ever perform well in the "system" Eakins ran. So it should be no surprise that Dubnyk took a while to recover after that. Just surprising that he's found such a high level
 

oobga

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Aug 1, 2003
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By all means keep telling yourself that, but no goalie will ever perform well in the "system" Eakins ran. So it should be no surprise that Dubnyk took a while to recover after that. Just surprising that he's found such a high level

Yeah, I figured he would come back after he had the off-season to reset, but I never expected this. It's like MacT spite gave him super powers or something :)

Dubs and Yak were probably the biggest victims of Eakins coaching. Dubs got a megadose of the original swarm and his confidence just tanked into oblivion. He wasted his opportunity to try to salvage his season on other teams for sure and that costed him a shot at a bigger money contract for this year, but oh well, he let last season die, went back to his family early and got his crap together, good for him.

Yak, we all know what happened there and no doubt MacT would have traded him if he wasn't a recent 1st overall pick. Yak just kept getting less effective until Eakins was finally gone and it still took him over a month to start getting some confidence back. He's still doesn't have the swagger he had in 12/13, but it should come eventually. Similar situations, big highs for both guys in 12/13 and continuously falling lows with their time under Eakins. Just one guy MacT wasn't allowed to trade.
 

Summary

Registered User
Oct 13, 2009
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Right. The goalie should never be at fault for abysmal play. Am I ingnorant, or is your memory too short to remember Dubnyk's below minor league play across 3 organizations last season?

Yes, you are ignorant. It was a dig at that myth. Coincidentaly only the goalies on teams that simply outscore opponents are the ones that don't let in "bad goals".
 

K1984

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Feb 7, 2008
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Yes, you are ignorant. It was a dig at that myth. Coincidentaly only the goalies on teams that simply outscore opponents are the ones that don't let in "bad goals".

Its such a shame that the Oilers, Predators, Canadiens, and Hamilton Bulldogs (yes, he sucked there too) couldn't recognize this.

Is Scrivens a starter in disguise on this team as well? Fasth? How are we supposed to know under this theory? Absolving goalies of blame for garbage play because the team should simply "score more goals" is absolutely rediculous.
 

Halibut

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Jul 24, 2010
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Dubnyk had problems when he played here there's no questioning that but we hung on to him for several years because we did see something in him. This organization was unable to develop him into what he's become and he's looking like a top end goaltender. That's the big problem, we had a piece we desperately need and this team couldnt develop the natural talent into something. We held onto him, failed to develop him and eventually gave him away for next to nothing.

It's not about whether we should have held onto Dubnyk or not it's about this team failing to improve itself. It's about trying to develop a player for almost a decade and failing. It's about turning a 1st round pick into a 4th line grinder, no disrespect to Hendricks but I'd rather have a number one goaltender and all it took was finding the right goalie coach.
 

McDeathbyCheerios*

Guest
Its such a shame that the Oilers, Predators, Canadiens, and Hamilton Bulldogs (yes, he sucked there too) couldn't recognize this.

Is Scrivens a starter in disguise on this team as well? Fasth? How are we supposed to know under this theory? Absolving goalies of blame for garbage play because the team should simply "score more goals" is absolutely rediculous.
You can only tell by watching the goalie play. If they let in the odd bad goal and the rest of the goals are clean goals cause by the team letting a guy into a prime scoring position then you probably have a good goalie in a ****** situation.

Scrivens and Fasth are pure back up goalies. They show flashes of great but can't handle a bunch of starts.

Watching Dubnyks play you could tell he was a good goalie who was struggling and having some confidence issues. He would make a ton of great saves but would eat in some stinkers from far for dumb reasons. I had always thought that if he could focus and gain some confidence he would stop letting in bad goals and be good, which he did. However that would never happen here.

What a young struggling team needs is a solid consistent goaltender who already has a bunch of confidence who can come in swinging
 

TheRebuild

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Jun 12, 2014
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Play behind a stifling, uncreative, defensively minded trapping hockey team. That's about as fun to watch as paint dry.

check.
 

oobga

Tier 2 Fan
Aug 1, 2003
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Dubnyk had problems when he played here there's no questioning that but we hung on to him for several years because we did see something in him. This organization was unable to develop him into what he's become and he's looking like a top end goaltender. That's the big problem, we had a piece we desperately need and this team couldnt develop the natural talent into something. We held onto him, failed to develop him and eventually gave him away for next to nothing.

It's not about whether we should have held onto Dubnyk or not it's about this team failing to improve itself. It's about trying to develop a player for almost a decade and failing. It's about turning a 1st round pick into a 4th line grinder, no disrespect to Hendricks but I'd rather have a number one goaltender and all it took was finding the right goalie coach.

I agree with this looking at the big picture. Really, Dubs days with the Oilers were done as soon as MacT was hired. He made it clear right from the start he did not like Dubnyk and there was no effort put into helping Dubs improve his game or turn it around when it was going south. Goal #1 for MacT in the 13/14 season very quickly became figuring out how to work around Eakins and isolate him from blame and Dubs was the first piece of low hanging fruit available to MacT to do that. Whoever our goalie was to start the 13/14 season, they were doomed because of all of MacT's blunders in his first months as GM.

The whole sequence of events is just another black eye for the Oilers org and Lowe's reign as POHO. In the end, no matter how you look at it, the Oilers failed to identify what Dubs was capable of and failed to develop him properly, like you said. Dubs is not the first talent we've squandered during a long run of terrible management and development, and he definitely will not be the last.
 
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