Dubas vs. Dorion. Who is the better GM?

[jcs0218]

Dubas vs. Dorion.

Who is the better GM?

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[Diamonddog01]

They have both been awful up to this off-season, Dorian is suddenly putting on a clinic.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Dubas because he’s been decent for a while. Dorion has been pretty bad until last Thursday.

 

[King Karl]

I'm not going to vote because I don't have a good answer. Dorian has absolutely been killing so far this off-season, but this is the first time in a while that I'm not terrified about him trying to "make moves". Apart from some inflated contracts Dubas has done a pretty good job as far as I can tell, but then he decided that Matt Murray, who a lottery team figured wasn't a fit as their starter, could backstop a team with cup aspirations.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

Think it’s a bad time to ask after Dorian took Dubas’ lunch money.

Monké memory short

 

[abo9]

I've been very critical of Dorion the past few years, but also had a suspicion that he had an insanely low internal cap - potentially under the floor.

In retrospect, he's done some good move considering. Now that he's "free", he's killing it.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Dorion picks on Dubas. He knocks his textbooks out of his hands in the hallway, and shoves him in a locker. Dorion is the jock that Dubas has been trying to prove wrong with his poindexter approach to building a hockey team. But the jock wins every time. Always.

 

[robsenz]

I don't think it's fair to judge Dorion's past work with Eugene pulling the strings, that being said I don't think its fair to judge his recent moves, he still has some work to do, but the moves look to be a lot more focused now.

 

[Akrapovince]

Dubas by a country mile.

Dubas is extremely good at filling out his roster, I know he has the advantage of managing the Leafs but he’s assembled a good team.

Don’t give me that first round bullshit anymore, no one can look at the Toronto roster that they’ve iced the past couple of years and tell me they don’t have a good team.

The Stanley Cup playoffs are inherently flawed at figuring out how good your team is.

Toronto theoretically could have beaten 14 out of the 15 other teams but matched up against the one team they can’t beat in the first round.

Tampa theoretically could have only beaten 4 out of the 15 teams and win the cup but got matched against all 4 teams on the path to lord Stanley.

This is a scenario that could happen and it’s obviously exaggerated but the point is that it’s very flawed to just look at the playoffs to determine how goof a team is.

I’m not making excuses for them, yes at some point you have to get over that hump.

Dubas has assembled a stellar team in my opinion.

On the flip side, I don’t know if it’s correlation or causation but Dorion without EM seems to be making better moves. Let’s see what else he does, but Kyle’s body of work trumps his quite easily.

 

[Wallet Inspector]

Not voting, but in Dubas' defense, he's never made a trade as bad as Zibanejad+2nd for Brassard.

 

[Stamkos4life]

I bet if Dorian inherited a 105 point team with matthews, marner and Nylander that he'd have at least one series win by now.

 

[bobholly39]

It's definitely Dubas.

Dorion is a HORRIBLE GM. Worst in league, or close. Now in his defense, he seems to have done a few pretty good moves this off-season, so good for Sens fans, as it's about time. But he's done a ton of bad moves (and some hilariously bad moves) over the years, and usually just seems lost.

Dubas seems a lot more capable, and has done a good job in trades/UFA signings over the years. Obviously playoff wins aren't there - and it's always fun to make fun of the Leafs so i'm sure many will vote against him. But objectively, there's no question in my mind he's been the much, much better GM than Dorion so far.

 

[The90]

I bet if Dorian inherited a 105 point team with matthews, marner and Nylander that he'd have at least one series win by now.

Even if he did, you guys would still be here whining about it

 

[centipede2233]

Well, once you find out who is better between a dufas and a moron, you will then find your answer between dubas and dorion

 

[AvroArrow]

There is no such thing as a "neutral" fan when it comes to Toronto

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

There is no such thing as a "neutral" fan when it comes to Toronto

 

[francis246]

how can anyone say Dorion is a better GM with a straight face? He hasn't made Ottawa good lol. Im a leafs fan but not a Dubas fan. I don't understand the voting.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Dorion's come a long way from "we're a team", to the moves he's made in the past week.

Dubas' trajectory has kind of gone in the opposite direction, promoted as some sort of wunderkind GM, inheriting a stacked team but still seemingly incapable of getting past that first hurdle year after year.

 

[The90]

Dorion's come a long way from "we're a team", to the moves he's made in the past week.

Dubas' trajectory has kind of gone in the opposite direction, promoted as some sort of wunderkind GM, inheriting a stacked team but still seemingly incapable of getting past that first hurdle year after year.

Totally. That’s why Dorion had a 115 point team last year and Dubas is trending in the wrong direction. Good logic.

This alone is probably the only move I don’t understand quite as much by Dubas. 1 potentially bad move doesn’t mean we flip the gm from a bottom dweller and replace him with a 115 point GM.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Totally. That’s why Dorian had a 115 point team last year and Dubas is trending in the wrong direction. Good logic.

This alone is probably the only move I don’t understand quite as much by Dubas. 1 potentially bad move doesn’t mean we flip the gm from a bottom dweller and replace him with a 115 point GM.

Ok.

Would you say Dubas is looked at more favourably now, or back when he came in as the Leafs GM?

When he took over in 2017 or 2018, whenever it was, he was the hot-shot replacement to Lou, Shanny's pick to take the Leafs to the next level. He's accomplished nothing, or next to nothing if you want to start counting regular season accomplishments and say they matter.

And sure, I get it, Ottawa's been a tire fire for years, but at least with Melnyk gone, Sens fans have reason for optimism this summer. Dorion's had a good offseason so far and it'll be interesting to see what both teams do this summer.

If, by next spring, we're looking back at the season and neither team progressed past the first round, I don't think Dubas has a job. Dorion still might.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

The 2 D's are just a couple of boobs.

 

[The90]

Ok.

Would you say Dubas is looked at more favourably now, or back when he came in as the Leafs GM?

When he took over in 2017 or 2018, whenever it was, he was the hot-shot replacement to Lou, Shanny's pick to take the Leafs to the next level. He's accomplished nothing, or next to nothing if you want to start counting regular season accomplishments and say they matter.

And sure, I get it, Ottawa's been a tire fire for years, but at least with Melnyk gone, Sens fans have reason for optimism this summer. Dorion's had a good offseason so far and it'll be interesting to see what both teams do this summer.

If, by next spring, we're looking back at the season and neither team progressed past the first round, I don't think Dubas has a job. Dorion still might.

The only thing that the leafs don’t have that’s better when he took over is a playoff series win. They’ve literally improved in almost every area since he came to the leafs. They just had their best season in franchise history under Dubas.

You guys get all upset about the leafs and can’t see the forest from the trees.

But, for example:

He took:
Rielly Hainsey
Gardiner Zaitsev
Ozhiganov/ Borgman/ Polak

And in supposed cap hell, turned it into:
Rielly Sandin
Muzzin Brodie
Giordano Liljegren

Depth is better all over the roster. He’s found diamond cheap contracts all over the place. Spezza, Gio, Bunting, Kampf, Kase. And now has 1 possibly bad trade (which I don’t love. At all) and you guys are putting him behind Dorion because the latter made 2 good trades? Nice logic. The leafs were a 115 point team with <.900 goaltending for 7 of 8 months. Murray if anything is more of the same. The sky isn’t falling like you guys want it to. Silly thread.

 

[Dr Pepper]

The only thing that the leafs don’t have that’s better when he took over is a playoff series win. They’ve literally improved in almost every area since he came to the leafs. They just had their best season in franchise history under Dubas.

You guys get all upset about the leafs and can’t see the forest from the trees.

But, for example:

He took:
Rielly Hainsey
Gardiner Zaitsev
Ozhiganov/ Borgman/ Polak

And in supposed cap hell, turned it into:
Rielly Sandin
Muzzin Brodie
Giordano Liljegren

Depth is better all over the roster. He’s found diamond cheap contracts all over the place. Spezza, Gio, Bunting, Kampf, Kase. And now has 1 possibly bad trade (which I don’t love. At all) and you guys are putting him behind Dorion because the latter made 2 good trades? Nice logic. The leafs were a 115 point team with <.900 goaltending for 7 of 8 months. Murray if anything is more of the same. The sky isn’t falling like you guys want it to. Silly thread.

If the Leafs rack up 120 points next season, but then fall in the first round, did Dubas have an even better season?

And yes, you're right, the Leafs have done quite well in the regular season. Great individual performances by many Leafs players. I'm sure Dubas was elated to see Matthews clean up at the awards ceremony - before the league's attention returned to the Cup final, anyway.

Also, I never put him behind Dorion; I just said they're trending in opposite directions.

Dorion's had some rough years at the helm of the Sens, but things are looking up and he's making some great moves.

Dubas has had some shiny regular seasons with great individual numbers but he's won as many playoff series as Dorion has - and just got taken behind the woodshed on this Murray deal. And, like I mentioned earlier, if Dubas is once again unable to make any meaningful progress with the Leafs once the games actually matter, he's as good as gone.

 

[The90]

If the Leafs rack up 120 points next season, but then fall in the first round, did Dubas have an even better season?

And yes, you're right, the Leafs have done quite well in the regular season. Great individual performances by many Leafs players. I'm sure Dubas was elated to see Matthews clean up at the awards ceremony - before the league's attention returned to the Cup final, anyway.

Also, I never put him behind Dorion; I just said they're trending in opposite directions.

Dorion's had some rough years at the helm of the Sens, but things are looking up and he's making some great moves.

Dubas has had some shiny regular seasons with great individual numbers but he's won as many playoff series as Dorion has - and just got taken behind the woodshed on this Murray deal. And, like I mentioned earlier, if Dubas is once again unable to make any meaningful progress with the Leafs once the games actually matter, he's as good as gone.

He’s literally not trending in the opposite direction by any measure but this trade. That’s the point. His body of work has generally been good. I do think if they don’t make it out of the first round he’s gone. But I think he pushed his chips in on a group of guys that collectively haven’t gotten it done for 1 reason or another. I’d say the players are more at fault than he is at this point. He’s revamped the team completely to a structured solid team and they haven’t won. You don’t get to say he’s trending badly because of a single trade lol. It’s laughably short sighted

 

[Laphroaig]

Dorion was horrible while Melnyk was alive but he seems like a new man now. I need to give this some more time. Dubas has put together a good team but I believe the Tavares contract was a huge blunder. If they'd allocated that money elsewhere (defense) they may have already won a Cup.