TSN Radio Drive home yesterday w/ Brian Hayes + O-Dog

[WTFMAN99]

Since when is 55 points a good year for a #1 center?..That's a MEH year.

It doesn't appear that I labelled Kadri as a #1C. But across the league 55 pts would make someone a good player.

I think you'd be forcing a 2C into being a 1C personally speaking...and while I think Kadri will get more PP time which will help production, as a 1C he will now face top pairing defenseman which he hasn't had to face (his 5 on 5 production to date has been great) and I think that will hurt his production a bit.

55 pts would be nice...I think our team is pretty offensively challenged.

 

[Stand Witness]

I think you'd be forcing a 2C into being a 1C personally speaking...and while I think Kadri will get more PP time which will help production, as a 1C he will now face top pairing defenseman which he hasn't had to face (his 5 on 5 production to date has been great) and I think that will hurt his production a bit.

55 pts would be nice...I think our team is pretty offensively challenged.

As much as I disagreed with the purpose of this thread and all that but I agree that Kadri is more or less a #2C (high end potentially) being forced into a #1C role. He could be a #1C next year but not now.

 

[CalgaryLeaf*]

It doesn't appear that I labelled Kadri as a #1C. But across the league 55 pts would make someone a good player.

He will be the teams #1 center and 55 points is not very good given the amount of time he'll play on the PP also...55 points is good for a 2nd line center NOT a first line center.

 

[WTFMAN99]

As much as I disagreed with the purpose of this thread and all that but I agree that Kadri is more or less a #2C (high end potentially) being forced into a #1C role. He could be a #1C next year but not now.

He's just not ready...nice hair though.

 

[CalgaryLeaf*]

I think you'd be forcing a 2C into being a 1C personally speaking...and while I think Kadri will get more PP time which will help production, as a 1C he will now face top pairing defenseman which he hasn't had to face (his 5 on 5 production to date has been great) and I think that will hurt his production a bit.

55 pts would be nice...I think our team is pretty offensively challenged.

#1 PP time makes a HUGE difference in points...He will also be playing with better wingers...55 points will be a crappy year.

 

[WTFMAN99]

#1 PP time makes a HUGE difference in points...He will also be playing with better wingers...55 points will be a crappy year.

Yes but so is playing against top pairing defenseman instead of 2nd/3rd pairing defenseman. That will hurt his 5 on 5 production which to date has been great, but I think we can see some regression there, and increase in his PP production. Offensive system will be different under Babcock then Carlyle - Kadri will be expected to be responsible defensively and can not go all out on offense as he did with Carlyle, there could be an adjustment period - There might not be either.

Now in terms of linemates. If he's the 1C, I think for sure he will have JVR on the LW with him, to date they haven't shown much in the way of chemistry, but who knows, maybe that changes with more time together. Talented linemate for sure though.

Now the RW - Will Lupul shift back to RW and play on the top line? If he does, will he actually stay healthy? - If not then the next guy up could be PAP, Panik, or Matthias. Not exactly stellar on the right side.

 

[Stand Witness]

He will be the teams #1 center and 55 points is not very good given the amount of time he'll play on the PP also...55 points is good for a 2nd line center NOT a first line center.

Well considering that 55pts would tie Kadri at 28th in scoring for centers this year (Duchene, Stepan, Bergeron all 80+ gp) then it really isn't nearly as bad as you are saying.

If Kadri comes in with 55pts and plays solid defensive hockey then yes you can call him a #1. If he comes in with 55pts and not great defense then he is a #2.

He likely is a #2C being thrown into the #1C role. We literally can do nothing about that.

 

[CalgaryLeaf*]

Yes but so is playing against top pairing defenseman instead of 2nd/3rd pairing defenseman. That will hurt his 5 on 5 production which to date has been great, but I think we can see some regression there, and increase in his PP production. Offensive system will be different under Babcock then Carlyle - Kadri will be expected to be responsible defensively and can not go all out on offense as he did with Carlyle, there could be an adjustment period - There might not be either.

Now in terms of linemates. If he's the 1C, I think for sure he will have JVR on the LW with him, to date they haven't shown much in the way of chemistry, but who knows, maybe that changes with more time together. Talented linemate for sure though.

Now the RW - Will Lupul shift back to RW and play on the top line? If he does, will he actually stay healthy? - If not then the next guy up could be PAP, Panik, or Matthias. Not exactly stellar on the right side.

Kadri wasn't exactly a floater and did backcheck under RC...With better coaching I expect him to get even better.

Babcock will put Kadri in the best position to succeed both offensively and defensively...I also expect Naz to take a jump this year in his development because of the coaching and his off-season comittment to fitness. You can bet that he'll be more fit under Babcock along with the rest of the team. That should give him more opportunities to score late in shifts or late in the game.

Kadri will most likely play with JVR & Lupul...Lupul can play both sides.

His 5 on 3 play on the PP alone will net him at least 5 more points than last year...

Nazzy will get 65-70 points.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Kadri wasn't exactly a floater and did backcheck under RC...With better coaching I expect him to get even better.

Babcock will put Kadri in the best position to succeed both offensively and defensively...I also expect Kadri to take a jump this year in his development because of the coaching and his off-season comittment to fitness. You can bet that he'll be more fit under Babcock along with the rest of the team. That should give him more opportunities to score late in shifts or late in the game.

Kadri will most likely play with JVR & Lupul...Lupul can play both sides.

His 5 on 3 play on the PP alone will net him at least 5 more points than last year...

I wouldn't call Kadri a floater, had some off games for sure, but more often then not I was fine with his effort.

I also hope that this commitment is as serious as it sounds, from what i've seen/heard he looks like he's in good shape.

Yeah I know Lupul can play both sides - Just the question is will they stack that line? Will Lupul stay healthy? What is option if Lupul goes down? Again it looks like PAP, Panik, or Matthias would go to the top line...and that is not a good thing.

Again I agree his PP time will result in more points, but the 5 on 5 production might not be as strong due to facing other teams top defenseman.

I'd range his production as anywhere from 50-60 points, and if he hits 55 points, I am fine with it.

 

[The Man with a Plan]

#1 PP time makes a HUGE difference in points...He will also be playing with better wingers...55 points will be a crappy year.

You must be thinking it a decade ago..
The league simply doesn't have a glut of 90-100+ point players anymore.

Those expecting miracles from him and a 70+ point season might be setting themselves up for a disappointment. We will be an offensively challenged team now that we have lost Phil's output as well.

As he will probably be our 2C of the future anyways... what is the problem if he doesn't score 70 points but improves his 200 foot game and his faceoffs? Marner or Nylander will be the ones fighting for the 1C spot.

Talk about lofty and ill advised expectations.

 

[WTFMAN99]

You must be thinking it a decade ago..
The league simply doesn't have a glut of 90-100+ point players anymore.

Those expecting miracles from him and a 70+ point season might be setting themselves up for a disappointment. We will be an offensively challenged team now that we have lost Phil's output as well.

As he will probably be our 2C of the future anyways... what is the problem if he doesn't score 70 points but improves his 200 foot game and his faceoffs? Marner or Nylander will be the ones fighting for the 1C spot.

Talk about lofty and ill advised expectations.

Jamie Benn just won an Art Ross with 87 pts - Hard to score

I always pictured Marner/Nylander as being our 1-2 punch of the future and that Kadri is just keeping their spot on the roster warm, hoping they deal him for a nice young 2nd pairing RHD.

 

[Pholus]

He's just not ready...nice hair though.

You must be thinking about Nylander

 

[tooncesmeow]

I love that right after the media runs one player out of town, they look for the next guy to scapegoat and run out of town. 60-70 is unrealistic. He's playing with JVR who might be good for 40-60 points, and Parenteau, maybe? Or Arcobello? Maybe Setoguchi? Our RW is going to be a 2nd liner at best, and Kadri might get 45-60 points. I think thats the reasonable-to-overperforming range. Point totals are going down, they've been going down since the 80s, and as defense becomes more and more important and puck movers can turn a turnover into a scoring chance, offense has become limited not to mention the glut of massive equipment on massive goaltender trend we're going through. We're in a league where .920 is seen as not good enough, somehow, despite .920 being grounds for a vezina back in the 90s and early 2000s.

**** O'Neill for saying that ****. A LOT of Toronto Media need to stop watching Toronto games only, they're living in the past.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I love that right after the media runs one player out of town, they look for the next guy to scapegoat and run out of town. 60-70 is unrealistic. He's playing with JVR who might be good for 40-60 points, and Parenteau, maybe? Or Arcobello? Maybe Setoguchi? Our RW is going to be a 2nd liner at best, and Kadri might get 45-60 points. I think thats the reasonable-to-overperforming range. Point totals are going down, they've been going down since the 80s, and as defense becomes more and more important and puck movers can turn a turnover into a scoring chance, offense has become limited not to mention the glut of massive equipment on massive goaltender trend we're going through. We're in a league where .920 is seen as not good enough, somehow, despite .920 being grounds for a vezina back in the 90s and early 2000s.

**** O'Neill for saying that ****. A LOT of Toronto Media need to stop watching Toronto games only, they're living in the past.

I was worried I was crazy given the reactions I had here

 

[Gabriel426]

He's just not ready...nice hair though.

I was going to say that when I kept reading this thread

 

[Gabriel426]

Think points is only a indication for me. To me, he could get 100 or 55, but still need to play a sound defensive game and be a leader on the ice. If he could do that, even if he gets 45pts, I would be happy with his progress.

 

[Kubus]

Since when is 55 points a good year for a #1 center?..That's a MEH year.

55 pts is not a great year for #1 center, but it's not bad for a second line center. Last season mid 50 would place a center in the top 30 in the league.

I think too many people are looking for "the answer", but there isn't one, it's pieces. If Kadri can produce in the mid 50's it makes him a legit top 6 forward, and a valuable asset.

 

[Wendelstache]

55 pts is not a great year for #1 center, but it's not bad for a second line center. Last season mid 50 would place a center in the top 30 in the league.

I think too many people are looking for "the answer", but there isn't one, it's pieces. If Kadri can produce in the mid 50's it makes him a legit top 6 forward, and a valuable asset.

50p is decent for a 2nd line center but if you are getting first line minutes and putting up anything below 50p, you belong in the Bozak category.