TSN Radio Drive home yesterday w/ Brian Hayes + O-Dog

[colchar]

And no, I actually normally like Hayes, but the idea that we need to try to get in player's faces to try to get a quote or expecting Kadri to just suddenly produce 60-70 points seemed a little ridiculous.

He said he thinks Kadri will become the focal point, not that he should be the focal point.

Your comments here are misrepresenting what was said in the piece and others have posted a link to it so that other forum members can hear exactly what was said.

 

[Pookie]

Kadri is probably one of the better assets that will most likely be moved at the deadline. I think it is proper that there will be a focus on him.

 

[Sonny21]

Sorry, WTFMAN, but I cannot abide by your low standards and complaint about the "Toronto media" and "pressure" in this case.

What's wrong with expecting a top 10 pick from six years ago to hit 60-70 points? That's Derick Brassard, Radim Vrbata, Alex Steen, Mark Stone, Logan Couture territory. Hardly asking for the moon.

And if by chance 60-70 is too much to ask from Kadri, why the **** is he even here? Kadri should absolutely be stealing the limelight this year if all the advanced stats fans are correct. Why are we shying away from having real expectations from players? If he's going to be a garbage 40 point scorer the rest of his career, he can show himself the door. Nothing wrong with that.

Agreed. People act like we cleaned house or something and Kadri has nobody but 4th liners to play with.

 

[Faltorvo]

Kadri is probably one of the better assets that will most likely be moved at the deadline. I think it is proper that there will be a focus on him.

traded you say?

hrmm interesting, not sure I agree tho

 

[Pookie]

traded you say?

hrmm interesting, not sure I agree tho

Kadri is going to need a long term contract. He deserves that much. As far as salary, that's up for grabs but at least a 3 yr deal.

I just don't think that one season... Basically 6 months or so is going to be enough to make an informed decision as to whether he has turned the corner... Even if it looks promising.

Too risky IMO. I think they will move him.

 

[Faltorvo]

Kadri is going to need a long term contract. He deserves that much. As far as salary, that's up for grabs but at least a 3 yr deal.

I just don't think that one season... Basically 6 months or so is going to be enough to make an informed decision as to whether he has turned the corner... Even if it looks promising.

Too risky IMO. I think they will move him.

I don't agree with your "need" part

he is still a pending RFA , he does not "need" anything just yet

the only "need" is for him to turn his on and off ice career around and show he is a worthy 7th overall draft pick that this franchise can depend and build off of.

 

[Pookie]

^ I don't think that 6 months is enough time.

Maybe another bridge deal but he becomes UFA soon doesn't he? Only so many bridges...

Babcock said today it won't be overnight with respect to Kadri and turning it around. I don't think 6 months is enough time to make a long term commitment. Just hope he plays well enough to get a decent return vs his low value last year.

 

[Faltorvo]

^ I don't think that 6 months is enough time.

Maybe another bridge deal but he becomes UFA soon doesn't he? Only so many bridges...

Babcock said today it won't be overnight with respect to Kadri and turning it around. I don't think 6 months is enough time to make a long term commitment. Just hope he plays well enough to get a decent return vs his low value last year.

kadri has this and next season to be played before he is a UFA pookes

he is a UFA in about 22 month

 

[Pookie]

kadri has this and next season to be played before he is a UFA pookes

he is a UFA in about 22 month

Ok. But if he gets a bridge next year (12 months), he will be UFA when it expires (24 months). Therefore the next contract is decision day isn't it? 6 months to decide if this is the guy you want to bet on.

I say he's moved.

 

[Faltorvo]

Ok. But if he gets a bridge next year (12 months), he will be UFA when it expires (24 months). Therefore the next contract is decision day isn't it? 6 months to decide if this is the guy you want to bet on.

I say he's moved.

july 1 2017 is when he is UFA eligible

we have 1 and 3/4 s seasons of hockey to be played before his last trade deadline with us.

that is plenty of time and games for them to make an informed decision before we lose the ability to trade and recoup assets. Roughly 140 games.

 

[Stand Witness]

july 1 2017 is when he is UFA eligible

we have 1 and 3/4 s seasons of hockey to be played before his last trade deadline with us.

that is plenty of time and games for them to make an informed decision before we lose the ability to trade and recoup assets. Roughly 140 games.

I am pretty sure what he is getting at is that this is essentially Kadri's year to really prove himself or he is gone before we risk losing an asset for diminished value.

The current Leaf management seems to be very safe with the contracts they are handing out. They haven't gave anyone big term or even big dollars (or at least from what I can remember off the top of my head). Kadri is going to want his big pay day next year with the Leafs or a 1 year deal to walk as a UFA. This is his last value contract.

We all know pending UFAs hold a lot less value than RFAs with years left. Kadri with 1 more year of being an RFA allowing another team (or the Leafs) to have some control is important and increases the return significantly.

Lets say Kadri has a good season at 55 pts. His camp is going to demand a 1 yr deal to take him to UFA or a long term deal with security. No 2-3 year deals. The Leafs would probably not have an issue with the term but the $ value attached. A 1 year deal would be out of the question.

I feel like the Leafs management will do what they need to do to maximize his value. If the the trade deadline they don't feel confident with a new potential deal then I wouldn't be shocked to see him moved.

 

[Pholus]

Ok. But if he gets a bridge next year (12 months), he will be UFA when it expires (24 months). Therefore the next contract is decision day isn't it? 6 months to decide if this is the guy you want to bet on.

I say he's moved.

Since Kadri will still be an rfa at the end of this season, the only reason you would moved him at the tdl is is someone makes you an offer you can't refuse.

 

[Pookie]

Since Kadri will still be an rfa at the end of this season, the only reason you would moved him at the tdl is is someone makes you an offer you can't refuse.

He is an RFA at the end of this season BUT if you then only ink him to a 1 year deal he becomes UFA when that one expires.

A 1 year deal opens the risk of losing him for nothing if he walks as a UFA and/or lowering his trade value as a rental only if he is moved in 2016-17.

Therefore his next deal, if it is here, HAS to be a multi-year kind.

And I don't think 6 months of hockey will be enough to make that decision. The wiser move, unless he is on pace for 100 points or something outstanding, is to move the guy.

You'd weigh 6 years of on and off ice history vs a 6 month improvement and roll the dice if you sign him long term. Most likely is that he is moved and ideally the package is higher value than what he would have retuned had they moved him last year.

 

[The Man with a Plan]

He is an RFA at the end of this season BUT if you then only ink him to a 1 year deal he becomes UFA when that one expires.

A 1 year deal opens the risk of losing him for nothing if he walks as a UFA and/or lowering his trade value as a rental only if he is moved in 2016-17.

Therefore his next deal, if it is here, HAS to be a multi-year kind.

And I don't think 6 months of hockey will be enough to make that decision. The wiser move, unless he is on pace for 100 points or something outstanding, is to move the guy.

You'd weigh 6 years of on and off ice history vs a 6 month improvement and roll the dice if you sign him long term. Most likely is that he is moved and ideally the package is higher value than what he would have retuned had they moved him last year.

Jumping to a decision and making the wrong call because of it was a calling card of the last regimes. This one is about patience and building properly.

If he was going to be moved Shanny wouldn't have said anything about him in public.
Why tank the value on an asset before you trade it away?

Kadri will end up being our 60-65 pt 2C if all goes as planned. Marner and Nylander are both going to be better then him so why again is everyone ready to trade him because he won't be a 1C for us?

 

[Pookie]

Jumping to a decision and making the wrong call because of it was a calling card of the last regimes. This one is about patience and building properly.

If he was going to be moved Shanny wouldn't have said anything about him in public.
Why tank the value on an asset before you trade it away?

Kadri will end up being our 60-65 pt 2C if all goes as planned. Marner and Nylander are both going to be better then him so why again is everyone ready to trade him because he won't be a 1C for us?

He won't be 60-65 points at the trade deadline. You'd have to take a leap of faith that any blip in production was sustainable and any off ice corrections have been permanently fixed.

Just think it is a risky deal.

Some might gamble though. I wouldn't but some might.

 

[The Man with a Plan]

He won't be 60-65 points at the trade deadline. You'd have to take a leap of faith that any blip in production was sustainable and any off ice corrections have been permanently fixed.

Just think it is a risky deal.

Some might gamble though. I wouldn't but some might.

So lets repeat what we did with Steen, Stralman and others over the years and trade off players just before they start to break out and hit their ceiling.

I don't see how it is that risky...Kadri played the most last year with Clarkson and a mix of guys who are not top 6 players. He also didn't play in a system at all let alone a solid stable one. A good system, a good summer of training and some better linemates hopefully will see him turn himself back around.

 

[Pookie]

So lets repeat what we did with Steen, Stralman and others over the years and trade off players just before they start to break out and hit their ceiling.

I don't see how it is that risky...Kadri played the most last year with Clarkson and a mix of guys who are not top 6 players. He also didn't play in a system at all let alone a solid stable one. A good system, a good summer of training and some better linemates hopefully will see him turn himself back around.

It's risky because you know the player and publicly suspended him and you have just 6 months to figure out if he figured it out.

I wouldn't do it. You would. That's what makes this interesting.

You know for every Steen there is a John Mitchell Matt Frattin or a Justin Pogge or a Luca Caputi.

 

[Pholus]

It's risky because you know the player and publicly suspended him and you have just 6 months to figure out if he figured it out.

I wouldn't do it. You would. That's what makes this interesting.

You know for every Steen there is a John Mitchell Matt Frattin or a Justin Pogge or a Luca Caputi.

Why do you only have 6 months? Since he is an rfa, you retain his rights after the season ends.

 

[Pookie]

Why do you only have 6 months? Since he is an rfa, you retain his rights after the season ends.

Technically, you've got more than 6 months but I think that a major decision point will come by the deadline.

The deadline represents the time where he would have the most value to another team and the point in time where he still has the most risk to your team (ie. any off ice improvement may only be short lived or it may be permanent, you just don't know).

If he isn't moved at the deadline, your options are:

- By July '16 - sign another 1 year deal. Downside, he will become UFA when that one expires. Could walk for nothing or fetch little on the trade market as a rental. Least desirable option.

- By July '16 - sign a long term team. Downside, it would likely be at least 3 years and the Kadri camp will likely look for 5-6. Do you know enough about his improvement at that time to see it as a long term thing or a short term blip. This is the most risky aspect to the team. A long term deal to a player based on 1 season of improved performance.

Therefore, your only real option if he isn't moved at the deadline is to enter into a long term deal with him.

Kadri's a Leaf and I want him to do well. That said, I think what is known about him is known about him and the best move that the organization can make is a calculated play to maximize his value and pass that risk along to someone else.

Just my $0.02

 

[RLF]

Technically, you've got more than 6 months but I think that a major decision point will come by the deadline.

The deadline represents the time where he would have the most value to another team and the point in time where he still has the most risk to your team (ie. any off ice improvement may only be short lived or it may be permanent, you just don't know).

If he isn't moved at the deadline, your options are:

- By July '16 - sign another 1 year deal. Downside, he will become UFA when that one expires. Could walk for nothing or fetch little on the trade market as a rental. Least desirable option.

- By July '16 - sign a long term team. Downside, it would likely be at least 3 years and the Kadri camp will likely look for 5-6. Do you know enough about his improvement at that time to see it as a long term thing or a short term blip. This is the most risky aspect to the team. A long term deal to a player based on 1 season of improved performance.

Therefore, your only real option if he isn't moved at the deadline is to enter into a long term deal with him.

Kadri's a Leaf and I want him to do well. That said, I think what is known about him is known about him and the best move that the organization can make is a calculated play to maximize his value and pass that risk along to someone else.

Just my $0.02

I think it is a bit of a myth that as a rental they won't fetch much. Contending teams are willing to ante up for rentals just because the don't have to pay them the next year and don't have the cap room for them. A guy like Kadri could get good value at the deadline.imo (depending on his development of course).

Much talk about how many points he will have and how it ups his value. Personally, I don't think points are as much a concern to Shanny and company as commitment, dedication, consistency etc this season from Naz. They want to see him act like a pro. If he does those things, he will get a term deal if his demands are not ridiculous. If he doesn't change his ways, points or not, they will move him.imo

 

[slozo]

Love it that O-Dawg is back with Hayes. Enjoy the show. Yep, it's fluffy and light-hearted and they talk a lot of **** . . . but that is what is enjoyable about it. O'Neill acts like his slow, funny self, often makes blunders and silly statements . . . but he's also given many nuggets of truth. And especially when Kessel was here. I appreciated what he had to say about him, knowing how similar he was as a player, even with the being a bit out of shape part.

I remember when a large portion of Leafs nation claimed that Kadri would never become a f/t NHL player. Remember that? A lot of people gave up on him, in that third year of utter mismanagement.

I think he's a very solid player, actually. Could easily become out top line centre, or our amazing 2nd line centre (best case scenario if Marner were to become the top line centre). And I think people should realize that a player's full value can never be measured only by their points . . . If Kadri plays pretty good D under Babcock, meshes well with JVR say and ensures he gets close to 60 pts and 30 goals . . . and if he only gets 50 - 55 points? I'm very happy. That's a Bergeron-lite season (same pts, d not as good). If he gets 60 points, I'm also very happy of course, but it will be tempered if he doesn't also make the players around him better. A top line centre has to be able to create offence around him as well, not just create it on his own for himself.

I think Kadri can do it. I predict he'll get between 55-65 points, and I think JVR will have a very solid season playing with a much better centre.

And I have no problem with what O'Neill said about pressure for Kadri, etc. And I think Kadri embraces that stuff, so it's all good.

 

[Joey Hoser]

You know for every Steen there is a John Mitchell Matt Frattin or a Justin Pogge or a Luca Caputi.

If you think Steen and Kadri didnt/don't look any different at 24/25 than those guys, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Pookie]

If you think Steen and Kadri didnt/don't look any different at 24/25 than those guys, I don't know what to tell you.

As an asset, they look very different. Was Steen's off ice behaviour/commitment ever an issue?

 

[CalgaryLeaf*]

I am pretty sure what he is getting at is that this is essentially Kadri's year to really prove himself or he is gone before we risk losing an asset for diminished value.

The current Leaf management seems to be very safe with the contracts they are handing out. They haven't gave anyone big term or even big dollars (or at least from what I can remember off the top of my head). Kadri is going to want his big pay day next year with the Leafs or a 1 year deal to walk as a UFA. This is his last value contract.

We all know pending UFAs hold a lot less value than RFAs with years left. Kadri with 1 more year of being an RFA allowing another team (or the Leafs) to have some control is important and increases the return significantly.

Lets say Kadri has a good season at 55 pts. His camp is going to demand a 1 yr deal to take him to UFA or a long term deal with security. No 2-3 year deals. The Leafs would probably not have an issue with the term but the $ value attached. A 1 year deal would be out of the question.

I feel like the Leafs management will do what they need to do to maximize his value. If the the trade deadline they don't feel confident with a new potential deal then I wouldn't be shocked to see him moved.

Since when is 55 points a good year for a #1 center?..That's a MEH year.

 

[Stand Witness]

Since when is 55 points a good year for a #1 center?..That's a MEH year.

It doesn't appear that I labelled Kadri as a #1C. But across the league 55 pts would make someone a good player.