Speculation: Dreger: Detroit are eager to make a move

[detredWINgs]

I don't see any one-for-one trades happening unless it's for the purpose of getting a cheap player that we can immediately send down.

If/when we find out nobody wants any of our available forwards (Tootoo, Sammy if he waives NTC, and maybe Eaves), Holland might have to consider moving a D for a pick and rolling with 6 D or trading a forward you don't want to trade.

Our roster-limit situation will be so bad once Helm and Eaves come back that something that makes you cringe might have to happen to get under the roster limit.

I personally would trade Abdelkader (lol not going to happen though). His stock is sky high after getting loads of time with D and Z. We could get a legit pick/prospect for him, or possibly package him with one of our D to get a D upgrade.

Any move that is made HAS to net us 1 less NHL player + get rid of roughly 1.5 million in cap space or else we'll still have the same mess to clean up.

Then we will need to worry about how to get Nyquist up still...

I was just shooting the breeze by suggesting a Quincey trade. This is the Holland and Babcock show. We all know exactly what will happen:

Tootoo will be traded for a pittance while Cleary and Samuelsson sit comfortably in their Red Wings uniforms. Then maybe Eaves and/or Emmerton will be waived or traded. We'll keep everyone else, we won't have significant cap space to bring up Nyquist or to add someone at the trade deadline, and then once the trade deadline passes, Holland will proclaim that Nyquist is as good as a top 6 NHL winger (despite conveniently ignoring that fact for an 3/4 of a season) and that bringing him up will be our "trade deadline acquisition."

The end.

 

[Flowah]

I really hope that Tootoo doesnt get traded but Mike Brown just got traded for a 4th rounder. Tootoo should bring at least that and more, Brown is a fighter of Tootoos calibre but not close to hitting as hard and not nearly as effective of a player. Ill be extremely pissed if he gets traded in the first place but if its for anything less than that Holland is a complete idiot

He may not have a choice if he wants to bring Nyquist up.

That's the problem eh, one he created, but a problem nonetheless. All the other GMs know the problem he's in.

So yes Tootoo might objectively be worth more than Mike Brown. But that's not the end of the equation. You have to add the value of being able to make room for Nyquist.

 

[Frk It]

Tootoo will be traded for a pittance while Cleary and Samuelsson sit comfortably in their Red Wings uniforms. Then maybe Eaves and/or Emmerton will be waived or traded. We'll keep everyone else, we won't have significant cap space to bring up Nyquist or to add someone at the trade deadline, and then once the trade deadline passes, Holland will proclaim that Nyquist is as good as a top 6 NHL winger (despite conveniently ignoring that fact for an 3/4 of a season) and that bringing him up will be our "trade deadline acquisition."

Sounds about right.

The Cleary signing had such a negative impact on this organization in so many ways. And people didn't understand at the time why so many were outraged when it happened. I hope it's hitting home for people by now. Set this team back significantly.

 

[TCNorthstars]

Sounds about right.

The Cleary signing had such a negative impact on this organization in so many ways. And people didn't understand at the time why so many were outraged when it happened. I hope it's hitting home for people by now. Set this team back significantly.

While not a big fan of the Cleary signing, you are going a bit overboard here.

 

[detredWINgs]

While not a big fan of the Cleary signing, you are going a bit overboard here.

Because we signed him, we have:

1. Nyquist in the AHL.
2. Have to trade one of the only energetic, physical, and great forechecking bottom sixers we have.
3. Have the likes of Emmerton and Nyquist taking away time from Frk and Tvrdon's development in Grand Rapids.
4. Have Cleary on the team.

 

[TCNorthstars]

Because we signed him, we have:

1. Nyquist in the AHL.
2. Have to trade one of the only energetic, physical, and great forechecking bottom sixers we have.
3. Have the likes of Emmerton and Nyquist taking away time from Frk and Tvrdon's development in Grand Rapids.
4. Have Cleary on the team.

1. Nyquist isn't the savior.
2. Good thing we are getting an energetic, physical, great forechecking bottom sixer back.
3. Not a big deal. They are young and will get the development they need.
4. The man who got us a point last night?

Show me the significant setback to the organization.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

1. Nyquist isn't the savior.
2. Good thing we are getting an energetic, physical, great forechecking bottom sixer back.
3. Not a big deal. They are young and will get the development they need.
4. The man who got us a point last night?

Show me the significant setback to the organization.

1. Why do people always say this to back up KH? Nyquist isn't our savior but he's pretty damn good.

2. Cleary is not nearly as good as Tootoo. He's the opposite of energetic, he's OK physically and how you say he's a great forechecker blows my mind.

3. What if they don't?

4. With Nyquist we would probably have another win because our bottom-six would actually be able to control play and score goals.

 

[Frk It]

2. Good thing we are getting an energetic, physical, great forechecking bottom sixer back.

Show me the significant setback to the organization.

If we trade Tootoo it's to clear a roster spot. That is quite literally the entire point. So no, we won't be getting an energetic physical player back. We will be getting no players back.

And also, it's quite clear you have no idea how good of a hockey player Gustav Nyquist is. Don't worry though, in due time you will get it.

 

[ProPAIN]

1. Why do people always say this to back up KH? Nyquist isn't our savior but he's pretty damn good.

2. Cleary is not nearly as good as Tootoo. He's the opposite of energetic, he's OK physically and how you say he's a great forechecker blows my mind.

3. What if they don't?

4. With Nyquist we would probably have another win because our bottom-six would actually be able to control play and score goals.

I believe he/she is talking about Helm.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

I believe he/she is talking about Helm.

Okay then why not have both? Much better than having Cleary and no Nyquist.

 

[Frk It]

1. Why do people always say this to back up KH? Nyquist isn't our savior but he's pretty damn good.

#1 pet peeve on this board

Poster X says Nyquist or Tatar deserve to be on the team. Something as simple as that.

Poster Y responds by saying Nyquist/Tatar isn't going to be the savior that single-handedly saves the Detroit Red Wings.

Well no ****. No one is saying that. It's ridiculous hyperbole.

 

[TCNorthstars]

1. Why do people always say this to back up KH? Nyquist isn't our savior but he's pretty damn good.

2. Cleary is not nearly as good as Tootoo. He's the opposite of energetic, he's OK physically and how you say he's a great forechecker blows my mind.

3. What if they don't?

4. With Nyquist we would probably have another win because our bottom-six would actually be able to control play and score goals.

1. Not saying it to back up KH. It is just my opinion that Nyquist as good as most other people think he is.

2. Who is talking about Cleary?

3. If they don't, then they were never meant to be. If they don't, it isn't because the Wings pushed a couple of players to the AHL level, it is because they didn't have the goods.

4. Speculation

 

[Number 9*]

We all have understand right now Detroit has NOTHING to offer other teams except for young players and TOP line guys. The middle has nothing to offer any other team. Crap if they were at least good with a big salary the may move.

 

[TCNorthstars]

#1 pet peeve on this board

Poster X says Nyquist or Tatar deserve to be on the team. Something as simple as that.

Poster Y responds by saying Nyquist/Tatar isn't going to be the savior that single-handedly saves the Detroit Red Wings.

Well no ****. No one is saying that. It's ridiculous hyperbole.

And saying the Cleary signing "Set this team back significantly" isn't hyperbole?

And by saying that Nyquist isn't the savior, I was implying that the Wings record wouldn't be appreciably better with Nyquist instead of Cleary.

 

[Frk It]

And saying the Cleary signing "Set this team back significantly" isn't hyperbole?

Well you clearly can't see the big picture.

Nyquist is playing in the AHL. He's already been there over 2 years. He is over a ppg player career in that league. Not sure if you have actually watched him play, your posts would indicate you haven't, but he is dominating possession in that league. He is making AHL defenseman look silly. It does absolutely nothing for his development to still be in that league.

Signing Cleary put Tatar as the 13th forward and pushed Nyquist to the AHL. Those are the two best young forwards we have in our prospect pool. And they aren't by any mean kids. They are 24 and 22 years old. They are also accomplished. Tatar was the AHL playoffs MVP, Nyquist was top 10 in scoring the LAST TWO YEARS in the AHL before being called up. Both players looked good in their NHL call-ups last year, and Nyquist stabilizing the 3rd line helped give us a push in our playoff run.

So right now through 10 NHL games Tatar has played in 2, Nyquist has played in 0. Their development is being completely stagnant. Tatar has only played in 2/10 possible hockey games, and Nyquist is stuck playing in a league he has dominated, and has nothing left to gain playing in.

Then this trickles down to the AHL. Martin Frk is probably our 2nd best goal scoring forward in our system. He lit up the QMJHL and has a lot of desirable traits that project him to be a good goal scorer at the pro level. With the signing of Cleary, Emmerton and Nyquist are pushed to GR. This leaves Frk as the odd man out in Grand Rapids, where he is NOT PLAYING.

So if you look at the big picture here, you see multiple instances where some of our best young talent are not getting the opportunity to grow their game and develop like they should be. A lot of this matriculated because of the signing of the golden boy Danny Cleary.

 

[Frk It]

If nothing else signing Cleary put us in a TERRIBLE position just in terms of roster management (contracts) and salary cap hell.

But when you add on top of that how it takes away from player development for the younger guys, because of roster spots for the NHL and AHL clubs, I absolutely believe you can say signing Dan Cleary served as a significant setback for the Detroit Wings. In my opinion that is 100% justifiable.

But I also think that

1. Trading a 1st rounder for Kyle Quincey
and
2. Bringing back Samuelsson on a multi-year 3 million dollar contract

would fall into the same category.

 

[TCNorthstars]

Well you clearly can't see the big picture.

Nyquist is playing in the AHL. He's already been there over 2 years. He is over a ppg player career in that league. Not sure if you have actually watched him play, your posts would indicate you haven't, but he is dominating possession in that league. He is making AHL defenseman look silly. It does absolutely nothing for his development to still be in that league.

Signing Cleary put Tatar as the 13th forward and pushed Nyquist to the AHL. Those are the two best young forwards we have in our prospect pool. And they aren't by any mean kids. They are 24 and 22 years old. They are also accomplished. Tatar was the AHL playoffs MVP, Nyquist was top 10 in scoring the LAST TWO YEARS in the AHL before being called up. Both players looked good in their NHL call-ups last year, and Nyquist stabilizing the 3rd line helped give us a push in our playoff run.

So right now through 10 NHL games Tatar has played in 2, Nyquist has played in 0. Their development is being completely stagnant. Tatar has only played in 2/10 possible hockey games, and Nyquist is stuck playing in a league he has dominated, and has nothing left to gain playing in.

Then this trickles down to the AHL. Martin Frk is probably our 2nd best goal scoring forward in our system. He lit up the QMJHL and has a lot of desirable traits that project him to be a good goal scorer at the pro level. With the signing of Cleary, Emmerton and Nyquist are pushed to GR. This leaves Frk as the odd man out in Grand Rapids, where he is NOT PLAYING.

So if you look at the big picture here, you see multiple instances where some of our best young talent are not getting the opportunity to grow their game and develop like they should be. A lot of this matriculated because of the signing of the golden boy Danny Cleary.

Perhaps we have different definitions of "significant setback". I see those things as minor inconveniences. When I think of significant, I think the Wings are the new Flames. Time will tell I suppose. I will still be a Wings fan years down the road regardless. Hopefully you aren't one of the ones that say they will be done with the Wings.

 

[Frk It]

Perhaps we have different definitions of "significant setback". I see those things as minor inconveniences. When I think of significant, I think the Wings are the new Flames. Time will tell I suppose. I will still be a Wings fan years down the road regardless. Hopefully you aren't one of the ones that say they will be done with the Wings.

In that case, it's all just a matter of perspective.

I think it would do a world of good to have Nyquist on the roster learning from Datsyuk and Zetterberg and practicing with them daily. I just don't think it's a coincidence that our 2 best forwards never played there (Grand Rapids), I think over time it tends to get stale and old for some guys.

I think the Red Wings will get this situation remedied (playing Nyquist + Tatar), at least I hope, just probably not as swiftly as I would like.

 

[BF3]

The problem was that there was zero potential upside for signing Cleary given our roster situation and prospect pool at the time (and now).

He adds nothing to the roster that someone else on the team doesn't already bring or something that isn't easily replicated by someone else in the system.

To steal a baseball stat, Cleary's WAR is negative, or 0 if you are feeling generous.

 

[Frk It]

The problem was that there was zero potential upside for signing Cleary given our roster situation and prospect pool at the time (and now).

He adds nothing to the roster that someone else on the team doesn't already bring or something that isn't easily replicated by someone else in the system.

To steal a baseball stat, Cleary's WAR is negative, or 0 if you are feeling generous.

The problem is we don't have enough forwards that PK.

Though to be honest, I don't think the guys that we designate for the PK now really have stand-out qualities that make them excel there.

But I don't think Babcock has any desire to try new forwards there on a trial basis.

So because of this he views guys like Cleary, Miller, as pertinent players to the team that can't be replaced. But in actuality, I think they could be just fine.

I think given some time to adjust, Ferraro will be the best PKer on the Wings in the immediate future, except minus maybe Helm.

Would like to see Nyquist or Tatar get the chance to prove themselves there, to see if maybe they could make some of these old farts expendable.

 

[Winger98]

Emmerton was pushed to GR because he sucked. If he could reliably center the fourth line, I doubt he would have been sent down when he was -- especially since we turned around and hauled Glendenning up to fill his spot.

I want the kids in the lineup, but (other than Nyquist) I'm not sure any of them have made a great case for taking ice time away from someone else. In GR, it might be hard to beat out Gus and Emmerton, but Nestrasil? Frk should be able to do something to show he should get ice time over Nestrasil.

In Detroit, Tatar should be able to beat out a guy like Tootoo, Miller, or sammy if he wants ice time. I gripe on Tootoo from time to time, but he took 7 minutes of IT last night and was always around the play and working to make something happen in a way that Tatar just doesn't consistently do (yet).

edit: forwards who can/have PKed: Weiss, Franzen, Abdelkader, Z, D, Alfredsson, Andersson. I intentionally left of Miller. I keep thinking Tatar PKed a bit in GR. I'd try him in that role, just to see how it goes.

 

[Frk It]

Emmerton was pushed to GR because he sucked. If he could reliably center the fourth line, I doubt he would have been sent down when he was -- especially since we turned around and hauled Glendenning up to fill his spot.

I want the kids in the lineup, but (other than Nyquist) I'm not sure any of them have made a great case for taking ice time away from someone else. In GR, it might be hard to beat out Gus and Emmerton, but Nestrasil? Frk should be able to do something to show he should get ice time over Nestrasil.

In Detroit, Tatar should be able to beat out a guy like Tootoo, Miller, or sammy if he wants ice time. I gripe on Tootoo from time to time, but he took 7 minutes of IT last night and was always around the play and working to make something happen in a way that Tatar just doesn't consistently do (yet).

edit: forwards who can/have PKed: Weiss, Franzen, Abdelkader, Z, D, Alfredsson, Andersson. I intentionally left of Miller. I keep thinking Tatar PKed a bit in GR. I'd try him in that role, just to see how it goes.

You're saying these players should be showing something so they can be on the ice over the players in front of them.

Here's the kicker though. If we sign Cleary, they don't have to. They're all playing.

And let's be honest it's not like the playing field is level in Detroit for young players.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Emmerton was pushed to GR because he sucked. If he could reliably center the fourth line, I doubt he would have been sent down when he was -- especially since we turned around and hauled Glendenning up to fill his spot.

I want the kids in the lineup, but (other than Nyquist) I'm not sure any of them have made a great case for taking ice time away from someone else. In GR, it might be hard to beat out Gus and Emmerton, but Nestrasil? Frk should be able to do something to show he should get ice time over Nestrasil.

In Detroit, Tatar should be able to beat out a guy like Tootoo, Miller, or sammy if he wants ice time. I gripe on Tootoo from time to time, but he took 7 minutes of IT last night and was always around the play and working to make something happen in a way that Tatar just doesn't consistently do (yet).

edit: forwards who can/have PKed: Weiss, Franzen, Abdelkader, Z, D, Alfredsson, Andersson. I intentionally left of Miller. I keep thinking Tatar PKed a bit in GR. I'd try him in that role, just to see how it goes.

You've done a 180 on your position. Only a few months ago you agreed with me that the Wings were creating a bottleneck in their development.
What's changed? We resigned Cleary?

Tatar isn't competing with Tootoo and Miller for a job. He's competing with guys like Cleary, Bertuzzi, Sammy, Franzen, Zetterberg, Alfredsson and Abdelkader....

Those are your top 9 winger candidates.
It doesn't help when a guy like Abdelkader is misused on a scoring line.
It doesn't help that a guy like Cleary is resigned or when a useless slug like Sammy is brought back.

If Helm comes back and takes a the 3C job, it's going to create an even bigger problem as the top 9 is consolidated.

Also -- let's not waste Tatar on the PK

 

[Sentinel]

I would LUV to trade Abdelkader. An absolute waste of space.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

#1 pet peeve on this board

Poster X says Nyquist or Tatar deserve to be on the team. Something as simple as that.

Poster Y responds by saying Nyquist/Tatar isn't going to be the savior that single-handedly saves the Detroit Red Wings.

Well no ****. No one is saying that. It's ridiculous hyperbole.

Its done in a direct and deliberate attempt to lie and manipulate facts