Drake Batherson vs Jesper Bratt

[GermanSpitfire]

Don’t think it’s controversial at all to say Batherson has the higher ceiling of the two.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Don’t think it’s controversial at all to say Batherson has the higher ceiling of the two.

Why do you think that? Have you watched Bratt play much?

 

[GermanSpitfire]

Why do you think that? Have you watched Bratt play much?

Simple as this, not all development is linear.

Bratt is closer to a finished product than Batherson.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Simple as this, not all development is linear.

Bratt is closer to a finished product than Batherson.

Why is Bratt closer to a finished product tho. What makes you say that?

Is that a no you haven’t watched Bratt much because if you haven’t it’s pointless for me to even discuss this with you. You have to watch him to see just how good he is.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

Why is Bratt closer to a finished product tho. What makes you say that?

Is that a no you haven’t watched Bratt much because if you haven’t it’s pointless for me to even discuss this with you. You have to watch him to see just how good he is.

Batherson didn’t commit to playing hockey until his growth spurt at 18, he was 5’7” as a 17 year old. He was then drafted as an overager in 2017.

They’re similar players today, but this was Batherson’s first full season in the NHL and he paced similar to that of Bratt who’s been in the NHL for 4 seasons now.

Batherson has the higher ceiling, not to mention he plays for the team with the brighter future.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Batherson didn’t commit to playing hockey until his growth spurt at 18, he was 5’7” as a 17 year old. He was then drafted as an overager in 2017.

They’re similar players today, but this was Batherson’s first full season in the NHL and he paced similar to that of Bratt who’s been in the NHL for 4 seasons now.

Batherson has the higher ceiling, not to mention he plays for the team with the brighter future.

I disagree and don’t see any of those things as conclusive evidence that he has a higher ceiling at all. I guess we’ll see in the next few years.

I’m also saying that Bratt is a lot more than his pure point totals and that you have to watch him which I’m not sure you have.

 

[topshelf15]

Stop it with you havent watched him crap....NJ fans havent watched Batherson as much as Ottawa fans have and vice versa

 

[Samsquanch]

I disagree and don’t see any of those things as conclusive evidence that he has a higher ceiling at all. I guess we’ll see in the next few years.

I’m also saying that Bratt is a lot more than his pure point totals and that you have to watch him which I’m not sure you have.

But if you watched Batherson play - which we know is much less likely considering this seasons circumstances and the pandemic year being his first full NHL season - you would know that he is much more than points as well. Hes turning into a high energy PWF with a smart stick thats causing turnovers all over the ice - hes been called Mark Stone Jr by a lot of people (ie from the fanbase who would know better than any other one). Yet its like hes being made out to be Mike Hoffman and a pure one-dimensional goal scorer, which is pathetically far from reality.

Batherson and Tkachuk (and Norris for that matter) are a complete pain in the ass to play against, and they all play the body very hard - especially as the tempo and the temperature of the game keeps rising.

And yes, the fact that Batherson went undrafted shortly after hitting a massive growth spurt and committing to hockey full time - then he proceed to dominate the QMJHL, get drafted, dominate WJC, then immediately became the most dominant offensive player in the AHL (at his age which is ridiculous) for 2 seasons.

Then he had a brilliant NHL debut in his first full season up and being developed and seasoned properly, and not rushed (like Bratt may have been). A season that caught the eye of most people in the league in a way that Jesper Bratt never has for most of us. At least not since his rookie debut, which hes never truly improved upon as of yet.

So again its fine for you guys to die on that hill with Bratt and hold your ground on him. But open your eyes to the trajectory that Batherson has been on, and you might feel less anger/confusion about how the lowly Drake Baatherson was allowed to be in the same poll as Jesper the great...

It must feel so infuriating to be insulted this thread exists AND to see your player get so thoroughly and definitively crushed

Can we at least agree that its a valid debate?

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

But if you watched Batherson play - which we know is much less likely considering this seasons circumstances and the pandemic year being his first full NHL season - you would know that he is much more than points as well. Hes turning into a high energy PWF with a smart stick thats causing turnovers all over the ice - hes been called Mark Stone Jr by a lot of people (ie from the fanbase who would know better than any other one). Yet its like hes being made out to be Mike Hoffman and a pure one-dimensional goal scorer, which is pathetically far from reality.

Batherson and Tkachuk (and Norris for that matter) are a complete pain in the ass to play against, and they all play the body very hard - especially as the tempo and the temperature of the game keeps rising.

And yes, the fact that Batherson went undrafted shortly after hitting a massive growth spurt and committing to hockey full time - then he proceed to dominate the QMJHL, get drafted, dominate WJC, then immediately became the most dominant offensive player in the AHL (at his age which is ridiculous) for 2 seasons.

Then he had a brilliant NHL debut in his first full season up and being developed and seasoned properly, and not rushed (like Bratt may have been). A season that caught the eye of most people in the league in a way that Jesper Bratt never has for most of us. At least not since his rookie debut, which hes never truly improved upon as of yet.

So again its fine for you guys to die on that hill with Bratt and hold your ground on him. But open your eyes to the trajectory that Batherson has been on, and you might feel less anger/confusion about how the lowly Drake Baatherson was allowed to be in the same poll as Jesper the great...

It must feel so infuriating to be insulted this thread exists AND to see your player get so thoroughly and definitively crushed

Can we at least agree that its a valid debate?

I watch a lot of both players, bratt is pretty clearly the better all around player and play driver. But Batherson has a ton of potential with his release and offensive instincts.

Not an absurd comparison but it's Bratt as of today.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Stop it with you havent watched him crap....NJ fans havent watched Batherson as much as Ottawa fans have and vice versa

I’ve watched Batherson a ton

 

[Captain3rdLine]

But if you watched Batherson play - which we know is much less likely considering this seasons circumstances and the pandemic year being his first full NHL season - you would know that he is much more than points as well. Hes turning into a high energy PWF with a smart stick thats causing turnovers all over the ice - hes been called Mark Stone Jr by a lot of people (ie from the fanbase who would know better than any other one). Yet its like hes being made out to be Mike Hoffman and a pure one-dimensional goal scorer, which is pathetically far from reality.

Batherson and Tkachuk (and Norris for that matter) are a complete pain in the ass to play against, and they all play the body very hard - especially as the tempo and the temperature of the game keeps rising.

And yes, the fact that Batherson went undrafted shortly after hitting a massive growth spurt and committing to hockey full time - then he proceed to dominate the QMJHL, get drafted, dominate WJC, then immediately became the most dominant offensive player in the AHL (at his age which is ridiculous) for 2 seasons.

Then he had a brilliant NHL debut in his first full season up and being developed and seasoned properly, and not rushed (like Bratt may have been). A season that caught the eye of most people in the league in a way that Jesper Bratt never has for most of us. At least not since his rookie debut, which hes never truly improved upon as of yet.

So again its fine for you guys to die on that hill with Bratt and hold your ground on him. But open your eyes to the trajectory that Batherson has been on, and you might feel less anger/confusion about how the lowly Drake Baatherson was allowed to be in the same poll as Jesper the great...

It must feel so infuriating to be insulted this thread exists AND to see your player get so thoroughly and definitively crushed

Can we at least agree that its a valid debate?

I’ll agree that it’s a valid debate but there was quite a few things in here that made 0 sense. How is it less likely I’ve watched him play exactly?

Of course Batherson has caught your eye more as a sens fan and if you’re are saying Bratt hasn’t improve since his rookie season then u haven’t paid any attention to him and this is a point less conversation.

I could care less that this thread exist or what people in this poll think I haven’t even looked at the poll results once man but at this point I’m starting to think I’m talking to a child so I’m out.

 

[topshelf15]

I’ve watched Batherson a ton

So why argue???There arent many at his age that are much better than him ....Bratt is great too but its really just splitting hairs here...Bath isnt actually Ottawa best winger,Tkachuk and Stu are...

 

[Captain3rdLine]

So why argue???There arent many at his age that are much better than him ....Bratt is great too but its really just splitting hairs here...Bath isnt actually Ottawa best winger,Tkachuk and Stu are...

Because I think Bratt is the superior player. I’m not even as high on Bratt as a lot of devils fans and Batherson is a good young player too but outside of points I think Bratt has much more of an impact on the game. Just my opinion.

I’m bringing up whether people have even watched him play because I’m getting the impression from a few people arguing against Bratt that they haven’t and when I’ve asked if they actually have they ignore it.
I realize he’s not your best but somebody made this thread and I felt like arguing my opinion.

 

[topshelf15]

Because I think Bratt is the superior player. I’m not even as high on Bratt as a lot of devils fans and Batherson is a good young player too but outside of points I think Bratt has much more of an impact on the game. Just my opinion.

I’m bringing up whether people have even watched him play because I’m getting the impression from a few people arguing against Bratt that they haven’t and when I’ve asked if they actually have they ignore it.
I realize he’s not your best but somebody made this thread and I felt like arguing my opinion.

Right now its likely as Bath has one covid shortened season under his belt and he played great,but how about we wait a few years on this one and then see

 

[Calad]

Bratt is good but like like Drake here

 

[Benttheknee]

I disagree and don’t see any of those things as conclusive evidence that he has a higher ceiling at all. I guess we’ll see in the next few years.

I’m also saying that Bratt is a lot more than his pure point totals and that you have to watch him which I’m not sure you have.

The difference is quite stark. Bratt surprised and entered the NHL very young and has shown improvements. Batherson was only just getting his first full junior year when he was 18. So 4 years ago, Bratt was in the NHL and Batherson was establishing his junior career. Here we are 4 years later and Batherson and Bratt produce similarly, but Batherson just completed his first NHL year. Not many top 6 players plateau in their first full season.

All the signs suggest Batherson has room to grow, but Bratt is close to fully developed. No guarantees, just probabilities.

 

[Xspyrit]

Never realized Devils fans were that high on Bratt. They had him 17h in their pool in 2017, which was really really weak.

Prospect Info: - 2017 HF Devils Top 25 Prospect Rankings

Nico Hischier, Michael McLeod, Mackenzie Blackwood, Miles Wood, Jesper Bratt... don't see much else (sorry in advance if I missed the next awesome guy that will >>> Shane Pinto!)

What the hell were the Devils doing all that time? I mean, they have been one of the worst NHL teams since 2012-13... They should have had a very strong pool already by 2017... It looks like a Muckler prospect pool + a 1st overall pick. But at least Bratt was a nice surprise for them in 2017-18 I guess

Don't wish anything bad on other teams fanbases, I mean, these 3-4 rebuild years in Ottawa felt like an eternal purgatory (and not over if Dorionylk mess up again) so I can imagine how long 9 years is...

I have seen Bratt play plenty of times and always thought he was a nice little player but I'm going to track him a bit more next season since he is apparently a big piece to the Devils rebuild. I thought he was more on Connor Brown level.

Here is a dose of reality and actual evidence for you to chew on...

30 out of 45 outside fans have chosen Batherson so far...

But yes, please continue asking why this even being asked at all (becasue Bratt is so obvious)... JFC...

Well, I see 4 Sens fans who voted Batherson but not under the "Sens fan" option

Some Devils fans also voted Bratt not under the Devils fan option but not sure how many. I also see 2 posters that would vote against Ottawa even if their mother's life depended on it.

You can probably assume these 3 are Devils fans :

WhiskeyYourTheDevils, NJDevLolz, DevilsfanfromCanada


An interesting take away so far is that NO Sens fan has voted for Jesper Bratt and NO Devils fan has voted for Drake Batherson. Both fanbase seem pretty confident in their guy. Sens fans know how good the team's drafting can be and some of us have also followed Batherson for years. It goes back to his Q days for me, as I was able to go see him play not too far in Boisbriand. He was really dominant in these 2018 playoffs, that's about when we knew we had something special in him.

Anyway, this debate will either be close or a fanbase will look like total homers next season

 

[Xirik]

Never realized Devils fans were that high on Bratt. They had him 17h in their pool in 2017, which was really really weak.

Prospect Info: - 2017 HF Devils Top 25 Prospect Rankings

Nico Hischier, Michael McLeod, Mackenzie Blackwood, Miles Wood, Jesper Bratt... don't see much else (sorry in advance if I missed the next awesome guy that will >>> Shane Pinto!)

What the hell were the Devils doing all that time? I mean, they have been one of the worst NHL teams since 2012-13... They should have had a very strong pool already by 2017... It looks like a Muckler prospect pool + a 1st overall pick. But at least Bratt was a nice surprise for them in 2017-18 I guess

Don't wish anything bad on other teams fanbases, I mean, these 3-4 rebuild years in Ottawa felt like an eternal purgatory (and not over if Dorionylk mess up again) so I can imagine how long 9 years is...

I have seen Bratt play plenty of times and always thought he was a nice little player but I'm going to track him a bit more next season since he is apparently a big piece to the Devils rebuild. I thought he was more on Connor Brown level.



Well, I see 4 Sens fans who voted Batherson but not under the "Sens fan" option

Some Devils fans also voted Bratt not under the Devils fan option but not sure how many. I also see 2 posters that would vote against Ottawa even if their mother's life depended on it.

You can probably assume these 3 are Devils fans :

WhiskeyYourTheDevils, NJDevLolz, DevilsfanfromCanada


An interesting take away so far is that NO Sens fan has voted for Jesper Bratt and NO Devils fan has voted for Drake Batherson. Both fanbase seem pretty confident in their guy. Sens fans know how good the team's drafting can be and some of us have also followed Batherson for years. It goes back to his Q days for me, as I was able to go see him play not too far in Boisbriand. He was really dominant in these 2018 playoffs, that's about when we knew we had something special in him.

Anyway, this debate will either be close or a fanbase will look like total homers next season

Devils
History of NHL trades by the New Jersey Devils - NHL Trade Tracker
Sens
History of NHL trades by the Ottawa Senators - NHL Trade Tracker

Compare both and notice what players the Devils had to trade away for picks.

Our drafting was crap through the 2000's and our star players were leaving for nothing or retiring after our 2012 stanley cup run. We then traded for Schneider in 2013 and he masked our terrible team by being one of the best goalies from 2013-2016. We also had the whole Kovalchuk contract penalty that forfeited one of our 1st round picks. Devils have rebuilt from nothing which would obviously take longer.

Now I believe some of the reason the poll is lopsided is because its a small market team against a big market team in a Big market Canadian division. I can guarantee most of the people who aren't fans of either team that voted have watched more Sens games then Devils games.(yes I know the Sens are the smallest market team in Canada but compared to the Devils they are definitely big market)

I really don't get why the whole Devils VS sens stuff came up anyway, We are the most similar teams in the NHL. Both living in the shadow of juggernaut original six teams, Always forgoten in on any sports shows or forum banter, and thought of as a horrible/crappy/boring place to live compared to the Big NHL teams.

Our fanbases really should have each others teams be our 2nd favourite to cheer for.

 

[Sting]

Bratt is a good player. Batherson is a better player.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

Why do people keep beating the drum of this being Batherson's first year when he's had what, ~150 pro games at the AHL/NHL level before this season? This isn't a guy who just leveled up and had to acclimate from juniors. I'd say Batherson's ceiling of ascension is much lower than Bratt's.

Bratt has NHL elite skills right now with his edgework, acceleration, and stick handling. He missed time this year and had terrible puck luck, but he is and will be a better player than Batherson.

 

[BondraTime]

Why do people keep beating the drum of this being Batherson's first year when he's had what, ~200 pro games at the AHL level? This isn't a guy who just leveled up and had to acclimate from juniors. I'd say Barherson's ceiling of ascension is much lower than Bratt's.

Bratt has NHL elite skills right now with his edgework, acceleration, and stick handling. He missed time this year and had terrible puck luck, but he is and will be a better player than Batherson.

He's had AHL 100 games, not ~200

 

[Jersey Fresh]

He's had AHL 100 games, not ~200

Edited to include his prior AHL/NHL combined experience prior to this year.

 

[BondraTime]

Edited to include his prior AHL/NHL combined experience prior to this year.

And Bratt had 180 NHL games + 100 Allsvenskan games prior to this season, not sure what your point is? Both guys had 150+ NA pro games under their belts, both are the same age.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

And Bratt had 180 NHL games + 100 Allsvenskan games prior to this season, not sure what your point is? Both guys had 150+ NA pro games under their belts, both are the same age.

People are acting like because this is Batherson's first full year in the NHL that he has some kind of mythical ceiling of projection when he's already had nearly 150 games of pro experience. I'd say he's a lot closer to what he is than some of you would care to admit. You're using Bratt's ascension to the NHL much earlier against him when, as you noted, he made the jump from the Allsvenskan (tier-2 Sweden), all the way to the NHL at 19 as a 6th round pick and has been learning on the job on an unstable/poor team. Bratt's skills are much more projectable at this level and despite the continued efforts of Sens fans to use Bratt's production against him, he's a much better player than he was 180 NHL games ago. As the team solidifies around him, his production will rise with it, as it likely would have this year with a full training camp and better puck luck.

 

[topshelf15]

People are acting like because this is Batherson's first full year in the NHL that he has some kind of mythical ceiling of projection when he's already had nearly 150 games of pro experience. I'd say he's a lot closer to what he is than some of you would care to admit. You're using Bratt's ascension to the NHL much earlier against him when, as you noted, he made the jump from the Allsvenskan (tier-2 Sweden), all the way to the NHL at 19 as a 6th round pick and has been learning on the job on an unstable/poor team. Bratt's skills are much more projectable at this level and despite the continued efforts of Sens fans to use Bratt's production against him, he's a much better player than he was 180 NHL games ago. As the team solidifies around him, his production will rise with it, as it likely would have this year with a full training camp and better puck luck.

He was over a ppg with 54 points in 44 games his last season in the AHL...Not sure why we keep arguing anyhow,Ottawa is far deeper at wing ,NJ has the edge down the middle ,us on defense...Goaltending is close Blackwood gets the edge ...But Ottawa is stupid deep in net...Gusstavson,Soogard,Daccord are the 3 young ones that have the most promise so far