Draisaitl + Nurse vs Monahan + Hanifin

[ijuka]

Draisaitl is much better than Monahan and while I think Hanifin will end up being Nurse, he's really not that great himself and it's not enough to outweigh how vastly superior Draisaitl is to Monahan.

 

[KevSkillz4]

Monahan and Hanifin for me. Monahan is underrated. Hanifin is going to be a dominant D in the future no doubt.

 

[Connor McConnor]

While being a year younger and spending 40-50% of his ES time on the 2nd line with wingers such as Lucic/Cagguila/Slepyshev/Maroon/etc Drai still has 25 more points than Monahan over the past 2 seasons. His playoff performance showed he can easily carry a line if need be. He's already much better defensively than Monahan. It's downright laughable this Flames fan thinks Monahan is better than Draisatl now or anytime in their careers barring injury

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Not taking contracts into consideration is Chiarelli's specialty.

I don't think the gap between Monahan and Draisaitl is very big at all. Sean had 6 less points last year playing less games and playing injured for several months. Monahan scores more goals, Draisaitl sets his teammates up better. Draisaitl also gets to play with the back to back Art Ross winner.

didn't Treliving pay Backlund 5.3 mil? dude averages 48 points a year the past 3 seasons

and he's 29....

anyways, Draisaitl/Nurse very easily

 

[I am not exposed]

I would take Draisaitl over Monahan. And I would take Hanifin over Nurse.

It's close, but I'm taking the Oilers duo here.

 

[Volica]

While being a year younger and spending 40-50% of his ES time on the 2nd line with wingers such as Lucic/Cagguila/Slepyshev/Maroon/etc Drai still has 25 more points than Monahan over the past 2 seasons. His playoff performance showed he can easily carry a line if need be. He's already much better defensively than Monahan. It's downright laughable this Flames fan thinks Monahan is better than Draisatl now or anytime in their careers barring injury

Oh man. Must suck playing the lion's share of your pas two seasons with arguably the best player on the planet.
Or that his GF% without Connor drops below 45%. Or that the vast majority of his points still comes from playing with McDavid/Maroon over the past 2 years.

These two are comparable. Everyone thinking otherwise needs to take the homer glasses off.

 

[Connor McConnor]

Oh man. Must suck playing the lion's share of your pas two seasons with arguably the best player on the planet.
Or that his GF% without Connor drops below 45%. Or that the vast majority of his points still comes from playing with McDavid/Maroon over the past 2 years.

These two are comparable. Everyone thinking otherwise needs to take the homer glasses off.

So you're another one of these stat only guys who doesn't need to watch games because you just look at the advanced stats which tells you everything you need to know.

Anyone with half a brain can see who the more dominant player is between Drai and Monahan. World juniors and World Cup of Hockey were clear examples of Drai carrying a whole damn team against the best competition in the world. Monahan was asking where Johnny was so he could carry his jockstrap. When has Monahan ever had a playoff run like Drai has had (in his age 20 season nevertheless)?

Also, why is it fair for you to compare his GF/points without Connor but not with Monahan? Oh yeah, that's because he's incapable of playing on a line by himself. He NEEDS a superstar to free up space, let him stand in the circle to shoot and create chances for him. You also seem to not care about defense either right? Because that's a landslide.

Without McDavid Drai produces at a good, not great, pace around 55-60 points. He's also 22 years old and will continue getting better.
There aren't any comparable stats of Monahan without Johnny because he plays every single minute with him but even then the dude can't even hit 70 points.

So let's get this straight. Drai without McDavid barely worse than Monahan with Gaudreau.. yet you think it's close? Thanks for coming out!

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

Monahan played 92% of his 5v5 minutes with Gaudreau while Draisaitl played 44% of his 5v5 minutes with McDavid. Its pretty easy to see who benefitted more from their line mate last year.

So basically Drai played against easier competition is what your saying? While Monahan played against everyones shutdown lines.

 

[Volica]

So you're another one of these stat only guys who doesn't need to watch games because you just look at the advanced stats which tells you everything you need to know.

Anyone with half a brain can see who the more dominant player is between Drai and Monahan. World juniors and World Cup of Hockey were clear examples of Drai carrying a whole damn team against the best competition in the world. Monahan was asking where Johnny was so he could carry his jockstrap. When has Monahan ever had a playoff run like Drai has had (in his age 20 season nevertheless)?

Also, why is it fair for you to compare his GF/points without Connor but not with Monahan? Oh yeah, that's because he's incapable of playing on a line by himself. He NEEDS a superstar to free up space, let him stand in the circle to shoot and create chances for him. You also seem to not care about defense either right? Because that's a landslide.

Without McDavid Drai produces at a good, not great, pace around 55-60 points. He's also 22 years old and continue getting better.
There aren't any valid stats of Monahan without Johnny because he plays every single minute with him but even then the dude can't even hit 70 points.

So let's get this straight. Drai without McDavid barely worse than Monahan with Gaudreau.. yet you think it's close? Thanks for coming out!

I can almost guarantee I've seen more live Oil games than you this season, and I watch a good 40 or so Oil games a years outside of that. If you actually knew me as a poster, I'm not a pure analytics guy.

Anyone with homer glasses can see who the more dominant player is. Anyone with a realistic view, can see these two players are similar. B stars who play second fiddle to stars; with one getting to play with the star of stars.

You can't you GF/Points with Monahan because he's stapled to Gaudreau. That being said, in his rookie season, playing on a dog of a Flames team, the guy had 22 goals and 34 points as a rookie. At the same age Leon was back in junior because he wasn't NHL ready. You don't find it weird that his scoring improves once he's matched with McDavid, and then takes a slight hit as his minutes are slightly taken away from him?

I love posts that say nothing, provide no evidence; and give the 'thanks for coming' or 'next'. All you did was prove you're a homer that can't actually evaluate players without being a homer.

 

[Connor McConnor]

I can almost guarantee I've seen more live Oil games than you this season, and I watch a good 40 or so Oil games a years outside of that. If you actually knew me as a poster, I'm not a pure analytics guy.

Anyone with homer glasses can see who the more dominant player is. Anyone with a realistic view, can see these two players are similar. B stars who play second fiddle to stars; with one getting to play with the star of stars.

You can't you GF/Points with Monahan because he's stapled to Gaudreau. That being said, in his rookie season, playing on a dog of a Flames team, the guy had 22 goals and 34 points as a rookie. At the same age Leon was back in junior because he wasn't NHL ready. You don't find it weird that his scoring improves once he's matched with McDavid, and then takes a slight hit as his minutes are slightly taken away from him?

I love posts that say nothing, provide no evidence; and give the 'thanks for coming' or 'next'. All you did was prove you're a homer that can't actually evaluate players without being a homer.

Again, you seem to coincidentally ignore certain parts of my post and homer in on those that agree with your original contention. Let me make things simple for you:

1. Leon had 51 points in 72 games playing in his first full season in the NHL (without McDavid) which at a PPG pace is close to every Monahan season other than this past season.
2. You don't find it weird Draisatl carries team Germany during every International tournament without McDavid?
3. You don't find it weird Draisatl carried the Oilers during their playoff run 2 seasons ago without McDavid? While also trying to go up against Getzlaf on the defensive end?

Again, you just brush aside the fact Drai has played a ton of hockey without McDavid and still produces near the same level of Monahan with Johnny. I'm not disputing the fact that anybody playing with McDavid is going to have their game elevated but as a hockey fan you should be able to distinguish between the two and as I've pointed out twice now, there have been plenty of examples in Drai's early career that he can strive without McDavid.

 

[McFlyingV]

So basically Drai played against easier competition is what your saying? While Monahan played against everyones shutdown lines.

Well the quality of competition stats don't show that Drai played against easier competition, and Monahan gets more even strength offensive zone starts. But if thats what you want to go with sure we'll say he does for argument sake. Doesn't change the fact that Monahan has played over 90% of his minutes with Gaudreau the past two seasons at evens while Draisaitl has played 55% with McDavid over that time period. Take which side you'd rather have. 75 games with Gaudreau or 40 with McDavid. The numbers show Monahan does not produce much at all in 400 minutes away from Gaudreau the past two seasons, while Draisaitl produces near the same as Monahan with Gaudreau while not playing with McDavid.

Either way, argue linemate or quality of competition all you'd like. The fact still remains Draisaitl has 147 points in 160 games to Monahan's 122 points in 156 games over the past two seasons. That's a large gap, and he's also out produced Monahan in the playoffs.

 

[McFlyingV]

I can almost guarantee I've seen more live Oil games than you this season, and I watch a good 40 or so Oil games a years outside of that. If you actually knew me as a poster, I'm not a pure analytics guy.

Anyone with homer glasses can see who the more dominant player is. Anyone with a realistic view, can see these two players are similar. B stars who play second fiddle to stars; with one getting to play with the star of stars.

You can't you GF/Points with Monahan because he's stapled to Gaudreau. That being said, in his rookie season, playing on a dog of a Flames team, the guy had 22 goals and 34 points as a rookie. At the same age Leon was back in junior because he wasn't NHL ready. You don't find it weird that his scoring improves once he's matched with McDavid, and then takes a slight hit as his minutes are slightly taken away from him?

I love posts that say nothing, provide no evidence; and give the 'thanks for coming' or 'next'. All you did was prove you're a homer that can't actually evaluate players without being a homer.

I'm not sure how rookie season has any relevance at all. That's long in the past and players develop and are ready for the NHL at different rates. Monahan was ready earlier, but hasn't developed as much.

No I don't find it weird that his scoring improved (with 65 point hall actually the season prior, aka something you might expect in a developing 19-20 year old), and then dropped this season with less ice time with McDavid due to only scoring 11 PPP. With a functioning PP Draisaitl's production does not drop, that much should be obvious to anyone who watched this team. So your point there is actually false because Draisaitl's production did not drop at even strength (aka the strength where his minutes with McDavid were reduced).

 

[Volica]

Again, you seem to coincidentally ignore certain parts of my post and homer in on those that agree with your original contention. Let me make things simple for you:

1. Leon had 51 points in 72 games playing in his first full season in the NHL (without McDavid) which at a PPG pace is close to every Monahan season other than this past season.
2. You don't find it weird Draisatl carries team Germany during every International tournament without McDavid?
3. You don't find it weird Draisatl carried the Oilers during their playoff run 2 seasons ago without McDavid? While also trying to go up against Getzlaf on the defensive end?

Again, you just brush aside the fact Drai has played a ton of hockey without McDavid and still produces near the same level of Monahan with Johnny. I'm not disputing the fact that anybody playing with McDavid is going to have their game elevated but as a hockey fan you should be able to distinguish between the two and as I've pointed out twice now, there have been plenty of examples in Drai's early career that he can strive without McDavid.

1. .66 PPG pace is similar to on average to the 0.75 pace Monahan's? Did we just want to skim over the 900 minutes he played with the league MVP? In the year he put up 51 in his first year. I recall that Oilers fans were very, very adamant that Hall >>>> Gaudreau.
2. Do I find it weird that he's the best (mostly only) NHL player that leads his country to 7/8/9th finishes in the world? No. International tournaments mean so little. Ladislav Nagy had a better tournament than Draisaitl before; does that make him the better player?
3. No. In the same breath that Sam Bennett tends to be the best player in the post season and pre season for Calgary as well. A 4-10 game stretch is nice, but it doesn't put anyone in a category above or below anyone else in general. Troy Brouwer and Ville Leino were good examples of guys who had good playoffs which meant very little.

Yes. He's played a tonne of hockey away from McDavid, and yet 43/70 points this past season came from playing with McDavid in all situations. Considering the guy plays over 50% of his time last season with Connor (including PP)... Yeah. You remove McDavid from the entire story, you take our Gaudreau from Calgary; you have two guys who are likely worth 50-55 points a season having to deal with top D and top F.

 

[McFlyingV]

1. .66 PPG pace is similar to on average to the 0.75 pace Monahan's? Did we just want to skim over the 900 minutes he played with the league MVP? In the year he put up 51 in his first year. I recall that Oilers fans were very, very adamant that Hall >>>> Gaudreau.
2. Do I find it weird that he's the best (mostly only) NHL player that leads his country to 7/8/9th finishes in the world? No. International tournaments mean so little. Ladislav Nagy had a better tournament than Draisaitl before; does that make him the better player?
3. No. In the same breath that Sam Bennett tends to be the best player in the post season and pre season for Calgary as well. A 4-10 game stretch is nice, but it doesn't put anyone in a category above or below anyone else in general. Troy Brouwer and Ville Leino were good examples of guys who had good playoffs which meant very little.

Yes. He's played a tonne of hockey away from McDavid, and yet 43/70 points this past season came from playing with McDavid in all situations. Considering the guy plays over 50% of his time last season with Connor (including PP)... Yeah. You remove McDavid from the entire story, you take our Gaudreau from Calgary; you have two guys who are likely worth 50-55 points a season having to deal with top D and top F.

This is about as baseless of a claim as you could make. So Monahan drops a mere 9-14 points over the past two seasons (64P/82 pace) when he's not playing 86% of all situation minutes with Gaudreau, but Draisaitl drops 20-25 points (75P/82 pace) when not playing 57% of all situation minutes with McDavid. Yeah, I'm not buying it and you're downplaying how much Monahan relies on Gaudreau while claiming that Draisaitl is basically piggybacking off McDavid.

Is playing 86% of your minutes with a 78P/82GP player vs. 57% of your minutes with a 104P/82GP really that much worse of a situation? I think you'd have a hard time arguing it is when you look at Draisaitl's line mates away from McDavid, and when you look at the fact that Calgary has better offensive Dmen (or did prior to trading Hamilton). It's easy to point to one linemate, but these arguments always ignore the 3 other players on the ice at all times.

 

[McVespa99]

1. .66 PPG pace is similar to on average to the 0.75 pace Monahan's? Did we just want to skim over the 900 minutes he played with the league MVP? In the year he put up 51 in his first year. I recall that Oilers fans were very, very adamant that Hall >>>> Gaudreau.
2. Do I find it weird that he's the best (mostly only) NHL player that leads his country to 7/8/9th finishes in the world? No. International tournaments mean so little. Ladislav Nagy had a better tournament than Draisaitl before; does that make him the better player?
3. No. In the same breath that Sam Bennett tends to be the best player in the post season and pre season for Calgary as well. A 4-10 game stretch is nice, but it doesn't put anyone in a category above or below anyone else in general. Troy Brouwer and Ville Leino were good examples of guys who had good playoffs which meant very little.

Yes. He's played a tonne of hockey away from McDavid, and yet 43/70 points this past season came from playing with McDavid in all situations. Considering the guy plays over 50% of his time last season with Connor (including PP)... Yeah. You remove McDavid from the entire story, you take our Gaudreau from Calgary; you have two guys who are likely worth 50-55 points a season having to deal with top D and top F.

Really guys give it a rest. Drai is better. That is all. And Hall is better than Gadreau. So what is your point.....

 

[North Cole]

Draisaitl's most common linemate was still, for the second straight year, the Art Ross winning Connor McDavid. Not sure how you can definitively claim that Gaudreau inflates Monahan's stats more than McDavid inflates Draisaitl's. They both benefit from playing with elite players, how much is kind of hard to quantify. Draisaitl certainly benefited to the tune of 68 million dollars after one great season playing wing for McJesus.

As far as being big 2 way Cs I don't think either player has got there yet and have more room to grow.

You can claim it because monahan plays with gaudreau far more than Draisaitl plays with mcdavid. Drai played away from mcdavid for 34.5% of the line combinations. Monahan played with gaudreau for over 95%....