Draft, Muckler says BOG favour 30 balls in a bin

[Munchausen]

Every player born in '87 has worked his way to this draft and if it doesn't happen then no, it isn't fair to them. If they get thrown into the mix in the next draft with the '88's then a lot of them won't get drafted that normally would have.

I don't think they should combine the 2005 and 2006 drafts, but they should definitelly push back the drafting age to 19yo. Everybody wins (or more accurately, nobody loses).

 

[JohnnyReb]

No it's not. You go by who sucked in the past. Who cares if there wasn't a season? How is that relevant? We still know who was a bottom feeder pre-lockout. If you feel a season down the drains means there is just no possible way anymore to know who's good and who's bad (which is overly dramatic, since as I've mentioned, the vast majority of teams will hold on to their best assets post-lockout), then just cancel the draft for this year and put back the draft eligible age to 19yo like it should have been in the 1st place.

BTW, teams that are over and will need to shed some salaries have only themselves to blame. They've been warned for years there was going to be a low cap once the league renews the CBA. They chose to ignore the warning. Then deal with the consequences. They shouldn't be rewarded with a top draft pick for that sole reason.

Not only is this petty, blaming some teams for simply playing within the rules of the old CBA, its not even accurate. The Rangers and the Capitals, two teams who had just as much to do with the mess we are in now as any other team in the league, have a better chance of getting the pick in a lottery system than say, Edmonton or Calgary. Not to mention Ottawa.

If last season had of been played by the NHL's new rules, Detroit, Colorado, Toronto et all would have been on equal footing with Atlanta, Nashville, Columbus and so on. Absolutely not. There will always be teams that won't be able to afford more than the floor while others can afford up to the cap. That's a reality no CBA will correct unless you decide all teams must spend within 2-3M of each other. The advantage will be greatly reduced, but not enough so that big markets can't overbid small markets for any given star player's services.

According to Gary Bettman, caps act like a magnet, and that all teams end up spending to the limit anyways, regardless of whether they can afford it or not. He even held up the NFL as an example.

See above. Those teams are the exception, not the rule. And again, only have themselves to blame.

Also, see above. Not only are you punishing Detroit, Colorado, Toronto and company, for playing by the rules (of the old CBA), you are also punishing Edmonton, Calgary, Buffalo, Ottawa, even Minnesota, for playing above expectations, based on their restrictive salary structures.

You're twisting things here. A weighted lottery speculates what now? First, the effect of a new CBA won't be immediate, so no matter if we play an other year or not to determine the draft winner, things will change slowly, once teams with no assets in their development systems dry out in talent. What's more, you're giving way too much weight to the effect this CBA will have on the league. We're not talking good teams becoming bad overnight and vice versa just because their spending power has been reduced. All it gives is a possibility for smaller markets to compete with them. But it isn't a guarentee of success, and certainly not a projection of things to come in the immediate future.

Not sure I agree with this. Cutting $20-30 million off your payroll has an affect, as certainly as adding $10-15 million to your payroll has an affect. Would Pittsburgh have been a better team with a $32 million payroll, as opposed to the $22 million payroll they had?

 

[HockeyCritter]

Every player born in '87 has worked his way to this draft and if it doesn't happen then no, it isn't fair to them. If they get thrown into the mix in the next draft with the '88's then a lot of them won't get drafted that normally would have.

I think you completely missed my point.

I never said they should be "thrown in" with the 2006 Draft Class - I never supported the idea of a "super draft.†However, I do support the idea of two separate drafts (2005 & 2006) based on seasonal results. The "June 2005" Draft can be held mid-season or even the same weekend as the "June 2006" Draft.

Holding the June 2005 Draft later than June simply means that the ONE (or possibly two) draftees that would have been immediately thrust into NHL service will have to wait a six months to a year to do so.

That seems a small price to pay to ensure the most equitable way of determining draft order.

 

[aragorn]

A Weighted Lottery based on 2004 results to choose the picking order.

Team 30 to Team 26 = 6 balls per team
Team 25 to Team 21 = 5 balls per team
Team 20 to Team 16 = 4 balls per team
Team 15 to Team 11 = 3 balls per team
Team 10 to Team 6 = 2 balls per team
Team 5 to team 1 = 1 ball per team

After all we are only talking about one year here, after this year the draft will go back to normal, unfortunately this is the year the Crosby is available. Now there could still be teams that may trade the farm to get that first pick either at the draft or after the draft as Philly did for Lindros. Any team that gets into the top 10 will get a pretty good player, in fact the whole first round will be quite interesting and every team should get a decent prospect.

No doubt, Crosby is an exceptional talent, so was Gretzky who was not drafted and won 4 cups. Should Washington or Pittsburg get Crosby it would take a few years before they are cup contenders if they can hold on to their talent that long.

 

[Munchausen]

Not only are you punishing Detroit, Colorado, Toronto and company, for playing by the rules (of the old CBA), you are also punishing Edmonton, Calgary, Buffalo, Ottawa, even Minnesota, for playing above expectations, based on their restrictive salary structures.

It's not about playing by the rules, it's about not thinking ahead. We're talking about the present draft right? They knew this was coming years ago and they were warned to get their payrolls in line. Some teams did, some didn't. Their problems.

As for punishing teams like Edmonton and Buffalo, I don't even understand how this is relevant to the draft talks. Are we supposed to determine draft rankings based on merit now? Overachievements?

 

[Lanny MacDonald*]

Not only is this petty, blaming some teams for simply playing within the rules of the old CBA, its not even accurate. The Rangers and the Capitals, two teams who had just as much to do with the mess we are in now as any other team in the league, have a better chance of getting the pick in a lottery system than say, Edmonton or Calgary. Not to mention Ottawa.

That is correct. And doesn't that completely blow the argument used by those that say its all about "punishing" the large market teams? If we're all in favor of Washington and New York having their rightful place at the head of the draft class doesn't it comepletely obliterate the argument that its all about "screwing Detroit, Philadelphia, Toronto, etc."? It's not about what is fair fiscally or is fair down the road. It is all about what is fair based on the performance of the member teams in the last season played. If the Torontos or the Detroits of the the league suck because of the systems in place by the new CBA they will get their early picks in the future.

As I have said all along. If Sydney Crosby is not at the head of the draft class the big market teams and their fans are not saying a word on the subject. Its all about being selfish and wanting a crack at the wunderkind.

 

[mooseOAK*]

I think you completely missed my point.

I never said they should be "thrown in" with the 2006 Draft Class - I never supported the idea of a "super draft.†However, I do support the idea of two separate drafts (2005 & 2006) based on seasonal results. The "June 2005" Draft can be held mid-season or even the same weekend as the "June 2006" Draft.

Holding the June 2005 Draft later than June simply means that the ONE (or possibly two) draftees that would have been immediately thrust into NHL service will have to wait a six months to a year to do so.

That seems a small price to pay to ensure the most equitable way of determining draft order.

It makes it difficult for me to follow your point when you change it from "no draft" to "Holding the June 2005 Draft later than June" in midstream.

Help me out here by being consistent.

 

[JohnnyReb]

It's not about playing by the rules, it's about not thinking ahead. We're talking about the present draft right? They knew this was coming years ago and they were warned to get their payrolls in line. Some teams did, some didn't. Their problems.

And yet you would reward some teams who ignored the warnings, like the Rangers and Capitals, while punishing some teams who did think ahead, like Edmonton, Ottawa and Minnesota.

As for punishing teams like Edmonton and Buffalo, I don't even understand how this is relevant to the draft talks. Are we supposed to determine draft rankings based on merit now? Overachievements?

No. We are supposed to determine draft rankings based on who needs the most help to improve their team and achieve parity. The "spirit of the draft" discussed above. In the past, the best way to do this was to use the standings. That is not possible this year. What a weighted lottery does is assume that the bad teams would have stayed bad, and the good teams would have stayed good. Not only is this a dangerous assumption at the best of times (Vegas makes a lot of money on people making these assumptions), but this, clearly, is not the best of times. There is no way whatsoever of knowing where teams would have finished, thus any weighted lottery is based purely on speculation.

 

[JohnnyReb]

That is correct. And doesn't that completely blow the argument used by those that say its all about "punishing" the large market teams?

Talk to Munchausen. He's the one that thinks the rich teams should be punished with a poor draft pick. "They have no one to blame but themselves" and all that.

If we're all in favor of Washington and New York having their rightful place at the head of the draft class doesn't it comepletely obliterate the argument that its all about "screwing Detroit, Philadelphia, Toronto, etc."?

Not only did I not make the argument that it is all about screwing Detroit, Philadelphia and Toronto, I never stated I was in favor of Washington and New York getting their "rightful" place at the head of the draft. Quite the contrary, I believe in the 1 in 30 option, which would screw every team equally.

I could just have easily have said "Anaheim will rebound, and doesn't deserve to have a shot at the top 3 pick." Or, "Nashville is a team on the rise, and they probably would have ended up with the 12th pick, and not the 7th."

My only argument is that trying to figure out how last season would have gone is impossible to do, and therefore basing a lottery draft on historical results makes no sense, and defeats the spirit of the draft in the process.

It's not about what is fair fiscally or is fair down the road. It is all about what is fair based on the performance of the member teams in the last season played. If the Torontos or the Detroits of the the league suck because of the systems in place by the new CBA they will get their early picks in the future.

As I have said all along. If Sydney Crosby is not at the head of the draft class the big market teams and their fans are not saying a word on the subject. Its all about being selfish and wanting a crack at the wunderkind.

True enough, Crosby changes the dynamic of everything. But even if it wasn't Crosby, and say it was Ovechkin, the same arguments would be in place. Drafts were designed to make bad teams better. Since nobody knows which teams would have been bad, how can a weighted lottery uphold the spirit of the draft? Past results do not predict future performance, as they say. Especially not when you are wiping the slate clean and putting everybody on even footing.

 

[signalIInoise]

There is so much circular logic going on in this thread that my head is spinning.

A couple of corrections:

"The spirit of the draft" is not to achieve parity. The spirit of the draft is to restrict the freedom of the draftees. Crack open a history book that doesn't say 'hockey' on the cover, and look up the word 'conscripts'

The notion that the reason big markets are making a fuss over the draft order is solely because of Crosby is absurd. If that was the case, there would never have been a single draft day trade in the NHL's history.

Draft order is a very big deal to the teams, always has been, and always will be. What is making it all the more of a circus this year is a) the presence of very highly touted prospects, and b) the fact that there is no one with unassailable historical and legitimate claim to preferential treatment in this draft, leaving everyone with legitimate challenge to any claim.

 

[HockeyCritter]

It makes it difficult for me to follow your point when you change it from "no draft" to "Holding the June 2005 Draft later than June" in midstream.

Help me out here by being consistent.

I have been consistent . . . no draft unless it’s based on seasonal results. None of this contrived garbage just to get a draft done.

 

[HockeyCritter]

And yet you would reward some teams who ignored the warnings, like the Rangers and Capitals, while punishing some teams who did think ahead, like Edmonton, Ottawa and Minnesota.

How did the Caps ignore the warning signs? How long have they been considered “one of the big boys?†Two, possibly three seasons and that’s it - they certainly cannot be lumped into the same category as NYRangers, Detroit, Colorado, or Dallas. They extended the contract of Jagr - the very same contract that PITTSBURGH signed him for - they didn't add a single dollar, just added years (okay – that was stupid) and signed ONE pricey free agent. They also rewarded homegrown talent (Bondra, Kolzig) by giving them large contracts. Nearly everyone else played under a contract that expired PRIOR to the expiration of the CBA. It was clear the Caps were trying to give their “core†one chance to win . . . and when it became apparent that the over-priced, underachieving roster wasn’t going to do anything worth their salt, they were jettisoned in favor of younger players. How is it that the Caps are vilified for doing the same thing Pittsburgh did a mere two seasons ago?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Some one tell me the fable once more about how next year Tampa Bay, Calgary, Colorado, Toronto, Detroit will be 'equal' in veteran talent that will play next year and compete for a Cup with the likes of the Pens, Caps, Phoenix, Chicago, etc., even factoring in any version of new CBA you wish to factor in.

I could use a good laugh. And to be honest, any position other than a weighted draft is entirely a joke because of the above. The teams remain, for now, unequal, however this plays out and every one here knows it.

 

[JohnnyReb]

Some one tell me the fable once more about how next year Tampa Bay, Calgary, Colorado, Toronto, Detroit will be 'equal' in veteran talent that will play next year and compete for a Cup with the likes of the Pens, Caps, Phoenix, Chicago, etc., even factoring in any version of new CBA you wish to factor in.

I could use a good laugh. And to be honest, any position other than a weighted draft is entirely a joke because of the above. The teams remain, for now, unequal, however this plays out and every one here knows it.

So, as I asked in another thread, why bother weighting the lottery at all? Why not simply use last season's results? If the CBA is going to have little to no affect, then why the need to use historical results? Why not just go with the last season on record?

 

[Mess]

Some one tell me the fable once more about how next year Tampa Bay, Calgary, Colorado, Toronto, Detroit will be 'equal' in veteran talent that will play next year and compete for a Cup with the likes of the Pens, Caps, Phoenix, Chicago, etc., even factoring in any version of new CBA you wish to factor in.

I could use a good laugh. And to be honest, any position other than a weighted draft is entirely a joke because of the above. The teams remain, for now, unequal, however this plays out and every one here knows it.

My biggest beef is always that its about LACK OF MONEY not OPPORTUNITY to compete about being a weak team and remaining one ..

There are 200+ UFA on the market and 400+ come July 1st

Lets pick Toronto for example Sundin, Belfour and Nolan .. Three big name players for next year .. Take your Pens .. Mario returns .. They signed Recchi (better production then Nolan last season) and say they sign the Bulin Wall as UFA or add (Kovalev/Palffy/Demitra/Murray/Kariya/Lindros etc) as a UFA ..

Then the Pens bring in or up Fleury ,Malkin and Ryan Whitney (Leafs have no prospects at that level)

That would nearly make the teams even ..

Toronto then with the 8 players under contract next season has $27 mil (with rollback) committed .. So if we end up with the latest NHL CBA 37.5 Hard Cap .. That leaves Toronto with $ 10 mil and needing to get 14 players under contract ..

That really means filling the team with AHLers and prospects ..

If revenue sharing was involved in a CBA that would provide them 5 -10 mil in support to use on UFA players

Would the two teams really be that much different in on ice tallent ??

Keeping in mind that leafs loose Mogilny, Leetch, Roberts and Newy as UFA in cost cutting moves and replace them with Steen, Stajan , Carlo and Telly etc ..

This is Leafs projected roster with a 37.5 Hard Cap and players under contract(BLUE) and resigning RFA.

Steen .. Sundin .....Nolan ​

Tucker.......Stajan......Antropov ​

Poni .....Wellwood...Kilger​

Perrott...Wilm........Belak ​

​

McCabe ...Kaberle​

Klee......Colaiacovo​

Berg........Pilar​

​

Belfour​

Tellqvist​

​

​

Are you saying that your Pens team can't compete against that ?? ​

 

[Jaded-Fan]

My biggest beef is always that its about LACK OF MONEY not OPPORTUNITY to compete about being a weak team and remaining one ..

There are 200+ UFA on the market and 400+ come July 1st

Lets pick Toronto for example Sundin, Belfour and Nolan .. Three big name players for next year .. Take your Pens .. Mario returns .. They signed Recchi (better production then Nolan last season) and say they sign the Bulin Wall as UFA or add (Kovalev/Palffy/Demitra/Murray/Kariya/Lindros etc) as a UFA ..

Then the Pens bring in or up Fleury ,Malkin and Ryan Whitney (Leafs have no prospects at that level)

That would nearly make the teams even ..

Toronto then with the 8 players under contract next season has $27 mil (with rollback) committed .. So if we end up with the latest NHL CBA 37.5 Hard Cap .. That leaves Toronto with $ 10 mil and needing to get 14 players under contract ..

That really means filling the team with AHLers and prospects ..

If revenue sharing was involved in a CBA that would provide them 5 -10 mil in support to use on UFA players

Would the two teams really be that much different in on ice tallent ??

Keeping in mind that leafs loose Mogilny, Leetch, Roberts and Newy as UFA in cost cutting moves and replace them with Steen, Stajan , Carlo and Telly etc ..

Some pretty damn big ifs there Messanger, and pretty much impossible ones. You want to use the Pens as an example, fine. Malkin is not playing next year and even if he were he is hardly anything but a rookie, not even close to competing with your top line players. Someday, I would like to hope that he will do great things, but this year? He would not even be in your top 6 players, he is still 6'3" and 186 pounds. Great for the RSL, but the NHL? He can play but not like your vets.

Maffy? He has worlds of growth left, he struggled long stretches in the AHL. Please. Recchi may be the only player who would even make one of the top two lines for Toronto . . . maybe. You really are stretching for something with this comparison.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

So, as I asked in another thread, why bother weighting the lottery at all? Why not simply use last season's results? If the CBA is going to have little to no affect, then why the need to use historical results? Why not just go with the last season on record?

(repost from answering in that other thread):

The lottery was meant to discourage tanking for the first pick, something the Pens had been accused of for Mario actually, and that may have been a major reason the lottery came in soon after.

There was a lottery last year, I am thinking that because the last season was lost the idea of spreading the losses and wins over three or four season was thought to be a compromise by those who advocated that system because it makes the rare fluke team that has a one year run or one year fall over injuries less likely to be penalized/rewarded. I think that is a fair compromise even though it bumps my team out of the top spot. That at least logically addresses the problems inherent in an imperfect system in a pretty fair way, maybe the most fair way out there. But to throw out everything we know about the teams just because we lost a season and have a team like Tampa Bay or Calgary, both young and stacked, or Detroit, Colorado, Toronto, Philly, old and stacked, have an equal chance at number one is a joke that perverts every reason behind having a draft.

 

[Mess]

Some pretty damn big ifs there Messanger, and pretty much impossible ones. You want to use the Pens as an example, fine. Malkin is not playing next year and even if he were he is hardly anything but a rookie, not even close to competing with your top line players. Someday, I would like to hope that he will do great things, but this year? He would not even be in your top 6 players, he is still 6'3" and 186 pounds. Great for the RSL, but the NHL? He can play but not like your vets.

Maffy? He has worlds of growth left, he struggled long stretches in the AHL. Please. Recchi may be the only player who would even make one of the top two lines for Toronto . . . maybe. You really are stretching for something with this comparison.

This is Leafs projected roster with a 37.5 Hard Cap and players under contract(BLUE & 24% rollback taken) and resigning RFA.

Steen .. Sundin .....Nolan ​

Tucker.......Stajan......Antropov ​

Poni .....Wellwood...Kilger​

Perrott...Wilm........Belak​

McCabe ...Kaberle​

Klee......Colaiacovo​

Berg........Pilar​

Belfour​

Tellqvist​

* ​

Are you saying that your Pens team can't compete against that ?? ​

If they can't you seriously have to question why the PENS have an NHL team ..??​

​

Malkin not better then Steen, Stajan or Antropov and even Tucker .. Please !!!​

 

[bleedgreen]

(repost from answering in that other thread):

The lottery was meant to discourage tanking for the first pick, something the Pens had been accused of for Mario actually, and that may have been a major reason the lottery came in soon after.

ummm....didnt they start the lottery after ottawa was accused of tanking it for daigle? i believe the sens were disciplined in some way - and the lottery started after that. what exactly are you talking about with mario and the pens here? your off by at least 7 years.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Are you saying that your Pens team can't compete against that ?? ​

If they can't you seriously have to question why the PENS have an NHL team ..??​

The Pens have a pretty good chance at a bright future. Right now though they are a blend of dubious at best veteran players and young players just getting their skates wet. Including at the most important position, goal. Half of our veteran players if not more would not even be playing for three quarters of the teams in the NHL. We were not handed last place, we earned it, and even as a fan I know that we are at least 3 years away from serious contention, if all goes well. We have been rebuilding and that takes time, and I in fact agree totally with the direction the Pens are heading. But to say that last year, or this next year, we can compete with the team you put up for Toronto to compare, no we are no where close to being there, even adding some free agents. We will have to rely on too many young players in key positions and there is no way they will be ready to actually compete for a cup next year. To say otherwise is a joke.

Hell, even when we had Mario, our teams lost, and lost huge for his first half a decade or more. While he was leading the league in scoring titles. Again, to answer your question, I can guarentee 100% that Toronto will have more points next year than the Pens. See me in 3 years though and then the story may be different.

Let me turn the question back on you. Name one Pen player that you would trade for one of your top players for next year only. Now name 3 or 4 players. You might be able to find one, but overall my Pens are not there and will not be for a while. You likely would find similar with any of the bottom dwelling teams. Some good players in the pipes, even on the ice, but not really competitive next year will they be?

 

[Mess]

The Pens have a pretty good chance at a bright future. Right now though they are a blend of dubious at best veteran players and young players just getting their skates wet. Including at the most important position, goal. Half of our veteran players if not more would not even be playing for three quarters of the teams in the NHL. We were not handed last place, we earned it, and even as a fan I know that we are at least 3 years away from serious contention, if all goes well. We have been rebuilding and that takes time, and I in fact agree totally with the direction the Pens are heading. But to say that last year, or this next year, we can compete with the team you put up for Toronto to compare, no we are no where close to being there, even adding some free agents. We will have to rely on too many young players in key positions and there is no way they will be ready to actually compete for a cup next year. To say otherwise is a joke.

Hell, even when we had Mario, our teams lost, and lost huge for his first half a decade or more. While he was leading the league in scoring titles. Again, to answer your question, I can guarentee 100% that Toronto will have more points next year than the Pens. See me in 3 years though and then the story may be different.

Let me turn the question back on you. Name one Pen player that you would trade for one of your top players for next year only. Now name 3 or 4 players. You might be able to find one, but overall my Pens are not there and will not be for a while. You likely would find similar with any of the bottom dwelling teams. Some good players in the pipes, even on the ice, but not really competitive next year will they be?

Nice how you ignored my post completely because it looks pretty ugly Leafs roster next year ..

What about the 400+ UFA on the market ..

This is the whole problem .. If Pittsburgh had money they could build a Stanley cup winner or at least seriously compete and play within a Cap .. I gave you Leafs roster next season that is at 40 mil as stated (with the 24% taken) and ZERO chance for a single UFA to better their team ..

Its all about money ...

The weak teams even if you let them pick from the TOP UFA (by tying the hads of the big markets via a Cap) on the market they CAN'T and that is the problem with the NHL and the Have and Have Nots....

 

[markov`]

Sadly, I'm pretty sure right now there's 25 or so GMs (and owners too) that will push for an equal chance lottery, with all the fans of those teams coming up with lame excuses (my team could have been worse this year, the cap takes away our rightful advantage, a plane could crash on the AC Center, etc.) to agree with them. Only the likely bottom teams will feel outraged by this and even though I'm not a fan of a bottom team, I sure understand their pain.

The draft was at first a mean to create a cycle in hockey and help the teams in difficulty, so they can "re-do" themselves through the draft. If you take away this only purpose just because Crosby is making everybody lose their marbles, might as well call it a night on the entry draft system altogether and declare 18yo free agents up for grab to anyone.

No matter the stupid excuse you come up with, there is not one single legit reason for this draft not to be at least weighted in the bottom teams' favor. But unity is likely already over among owners. Sharks will be sharks, and every owner will want Crosby on their team to kick start the new era, no matter what logic says about it, so be sure an equal chance lottery is a likely scenario April 20th.

Couldn't have said it better.

 

[markov`]

is Leafs projected roster with a 37.5 Hard Cap and players under contract(BLUE) and resigning RFA.

Steen .. Sundin .....Nolan ​

Tucker.......Stajan......Antropov ​

Poni .....Wellwood...Kilger​

Perrott...Wilm........Belak ​

​

McCabe ...Kaberle​

Klee......Colaiacovo​

Berg........Pilar​

​

Belfour​

Tellqvist​

​

​

Are you saying that your Pens team can't compete against that ?? ​

Roster projected by who? The Messenger & Carl O'Steen Scouting Firm?

Then the Pens bring in or up Fleury ,Malkin and Ryan Whitney (Leafs have no prospects at that level)

I think you forgot Kyle Wellwood.

But The Messenger, I'm sorry. I'm bashing you even if the point of your post is correct. The Leafs trully sucks.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Thanks for breaking it to me Vlad, but do you have arguments to go with that thought? Cause all I can answer to this is "no it doesn't". To which you might want to answer "yes it does". We ain't going far at that pace.

I'm still waiting to hear a valid explanation as to why this should be an equal chance lottery. I've seen none so far in this thread other than "please god let the team I cheer for have a crack at the phenom kid".

The valid reasons have been given in about a dzoen different threads. I've had discussion with Jaded Fan about this for months and am not about to get into it again.

If you haven't read valid explanations as to why the chances should be equal, it's simply because you chose to ignore them.

Here are the facts. Once more, for the thick headed:

1-There was no season
2-Traditionally, pick order is determined on performance consideration
3-There is no way to determine what the standings would have been accurately. None whatsoever
4-Whatever happened in earlier seasons, the system covered it, 100%, *at that time*

Everything else you read in those threads, and I mean everything, is basically pure speculation and desperate attempts by people to rationalize what they'd like to see happen. (my poor team suffered through years of suckitude, Crosby should play in my city, Crosby should go to a big market, big markets are bad, the new CBA is going to screw my big market team, I can't predict the standings but I'm doing it anyway, Crosby likes my city, my team was always unlucky in the lottery draft, etc.)

Just a bunch of pathetic, pitiful excuses that do not change the facts one bit.

 

[I in the Eye]

IMO, one of the most unfair things someone can do is treat unequals equally...

'Bad' teams, IMO, should have a greater chance to get the higher (potentially better) picks than the 'Good' teams... The draft system is fair, IMO...

Since we don't know which teams were the 'bad' teams and which teams were the 'good' teams (last season - as there was no season), IMO, there should not be a draft... We can make inferences and logical arguments, but IMO, that just introduces biases and personal opinions... Should Vancouver have a higher pick than Colorodo? Yes, No, Maybe? Who was the better team last year? Neither (as there was no season), therefore both were equal? Unless Van and Col had exactly the same number of points, wins, etc., they were not equal, and therefore, IMO, should not be seen as equal through the same size ball in a jar... We don't (and can't) know the draft order that's the fairest... As we don't know the standings (the standings don't exist)... The fairest thing to do, IMO, is to not have a draft this year... Let the actual standings determine and dictate what is fair... Not 29 balls and 1 p**** (EDM ) in a bin...