Draft Lottery Thread - All Tank Talk here

[405Exit]

Actually just read post i responded to.... just realize he had holtz at 3 not raymond.... i assumed raymond was 3rd so i was naming stutzle and drysdale as other options instead of raymond

My top 5 are
Laf
Byfield

Raymond
Stutzle
Drysdale
But last 3 are interchangable

yah I thought it had to be a miss type or a miss read. No way Raymond isn’t in the discussion atleast for 3rd spot selection. Kid has the best hands in the entire prospect pool. But do I think he’s going 3? No... the bottom 5 teams need Franchise centerman to rebuild around. Not an elite level winger.

I can see em moving to maybe Ottawa at 5 or 6 with the San Jose pick. Because there pick gets a franchise center already if they don’t get Lafrenier.

 

[BallPointHammer]

Tanking is intentionally divesting your team of enough NHL talent to be competitive, at the managerial level. Coaches and players don’t tank, but teams absolutely do. The league made a decision a looooong time ago that they didn’t like teams intentionally trying to NOT win. The latest rules are because they decided they also didn’t want to stockpile the players who put butts in seats on teams that were poorly run (Edmonton).

Bad teams are still guaranteed to fall no more than 3 slots. Detroit will still get a good player at 4. the league doesn’t want fair, they want competitive, especially with revenue sharing. It isn’t fair to ask other franchises to pay you money while you intentionally put a garbage product on the ice while chasing the elite players those other franchises won’t get access to.

Good points. Still, the current system is too random for me. The bottom teams should have a much higher chance at the top 5 picks.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Good points. Still, the current system is too random for me. The bottom teams should have a much higher chance at the top 5 picks.

The NBA has the same system and it did pretty much nothing to discourage tanking. I don't think tanking was much of a problem. Pretty much the reason they switched was because the Oilers, who never tanked, got ridiculously lucky over a six year stretch.

Honestly I don't think there should be a lottery at all, but whatever it's not the worst thing and maybe it'll work in our favor this year.

 

[cheesymc]

YAAASSS!!! Three way tie for 2nd worst now!!!

Pretty unbelievable that we are still 12 points ahead of the Red Wings... how can they stink so badly with all that young talent??? Sad that a team with such an epic history has been so bad.... they were the rare positive thing for Detroit....

 

[anezthes]

how can they stink so badly with all that young talent???

 

[Ducks in a row]

Tanking is done to get better picks even with a lottery system it doesn't stop any possible tanking because even though you aren't guaranteed 1st overall you still have better odds for it with the worst record. Also by doing worse your picks from round 2 and beyond are in better spots.

The only way to be completely sure that tanking isn't going on is to give every non playoff team 1 ball to draw for each and every non playoff spot pick from all rounds.

All the draft lottery does is screw over the worse teams by giving better teams a chance to draft ahead of them in round 1 because of lottery luck and I hate that.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Tanking is done to get better picks even with a lottery system it doesn't stop any possible tanking because even though you aren't guaranteed 1st overall you still have better odds for it with the worst record. Also by doing worse your picks from round 2 and beyond are in better spots.

The only way to be completely sure that tanking isn't going on is to give every non playoff team 1 ball to draw for each and every non playoff spot pick from all rounds.

All the draft lottery does is screw over the worse teams by giving better teams a chance to draft ahead of them in round 1 because of lottery luck and I hate that.

Research what Pittsburgh did to get Lemieux. Nobody tanks like that any more. That’s the reason there’s a lottery.

 

[Ducks in a row]

Research what Pittsburgh did to get Lemieux. Nobody tanks like that any more. That’s the reason there’s a lottery.

A lottery wouldn't stop a team from tanking like that for such a talent as Mario Lemieux because they would still rather have better odds to get him then lower odds by being better. Lottery doesn't stop any possible tanking it just fools people into thinking it solves anything.

 

[Ducks DVM]

A lottery wouldn't stop a team from tanking like that for such a talent as Mario Lemieux because they would still rather have better odds to get him then lower odds by being better. Lottery doesn't stop any possible tanking it just fools people into thinking it solves anything.

Yes it would. There are massive changes in Cap/Cap floor, contract structure, UFA age, allowed trade components, player union strength, and the current RFA salary environment that would render that model unworkable. There’s plenty of evidence that it has prevented any tank team of the last decade from producing a viable contender.

They traded a Norris level defenseman for a 1st and future considerations. Zero roster players. They sent a functional goalie to the minors so they could play a worse goalie. There’s a story that the GM screamed at the coach for having a lead in a game between periods.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

Yes it would. There are massive changes in Cap/Cap floor, contract structure, UFA age, allowed trade components, player union strength, and the current RFA salary environment that would render that model unworkable. There’s plenty of evidence that it has prevented any tank team of the last decade from producing a viable contender.

They traded a Norris level defenseman for a 1st and future considerations. Zero roster players. They sent a functional goalie to the minors so they could play a worse goalie. There’s a story that the GM screamed at the coach for having a lead in a game between periods.

Too many people seem to be really clueless that the cap era has made significant changes to how you manage a team today vs before the cap.

 

[Ducks in a row]

Yes it would. There are massive changes in Cap/Cap floor, contract structure, UFA age, allowed trade components, player union strength, and the current RFA salary environment that would render that model unworkable. There’s plenty of evidence that it has prevented any tank team of the last decade from producing a viable contender.

They traded a Norris level defenseman for a 1st and future considerations. Zero roster players. They sent a functional goalie to the minors so they could play a worse goalie. There’s a story that the GM screamed at the coach for having a lead in a game between periods.

OK so the NHL has changed a lot since then with salary cap,when players can become UFA and so on but none of that you mentioned was draft lottery just other stuff.

So they traded someone for a 1st round pick and future considerations. Well we see a lot of crappy teams trading players for picks and or prospects and yet we don't hear lots of complaining they are tanking because of it when they are technically tanking by doing so because they aren't getting NHL roster players back all the time.

Sending a goalie down to the minors to hurt the NHL team is bad. Now the NHL has rules regarding sending players to minors that past a certain point they have to go through waivers and you risk losing the player for nothing. Did they have such a rule back then? I can't remember what the rules where.

 

[Ducks DVM]

OK so the NHL has changed a lot since then with salary cap,when players can become UFA and so on but none of that you mentioned was draft lottery just other stuff.

So they traded someone for a 1st round pick and future considerations. Well we see a lot of crappy teams trading players for picks and or prospects and yet we don't hear lots of complaining they are tanking because of it when they are technically tanking by doing so because they aren't getting NHL roster players back all the time.

Sending a goalie down to the minors to hurt the NHL team is bad. Now the NHL has rules regarding sending players to minors that past a certain point they have to go through waivers and you risk losing the player for nothing. Did they have such a rule back then? I can't remember what the rules where.

They didn’t trade A player. They traded a player who won the Norris a few years before, and then was 7th in voting with the team they sent him to. He was not an UFA. He was traded for a 1st and future considerations. That’s never happening now because it’s a fire sale, and because the return now MUST include contracts because of the Cap/Cap Floor. Burns was UFA and Karlsson brought back a much larger group of assets. All the other 1D level trades have involved legit star players.

Waivers didn’t start until 2004.

edot - people complain about teams tanking constantly. The NHL clearly doesn’t want it based on their draft rules. I’m not sure what you’re talking about.

 

[bsu]

Laf would turn this franchise around instantly.

 

[dracom]

Laf would turn this franchise around instantly.

Now you’re sounding like 405.

 

[Ducks in a row]

They didn’t trade A player. They traded a player who won the Norris a few years before, and then was 7th in voting with the team they sent him to. He was not an UFA. He was traded for a 1st and future considerations. That’s never happening now because it’s a fire sale, and because the return now MUST include contracts because of the Cap/Cap Floor. Burns was UFA and Karlsson brought back a much larger group of assets. All the other 1D level trades have involved legit star players.

Waivers didn’t start until 2004.

Doing a tank like the Penguins did isn't being done and its not because of the lottery system it is because of so many other changes. League has to approve of trades and they wont allow crazy ones like before, you can't just send anyone down to the minors without risking losing them and there is a salary cap that effects trades and other such player movements with rosters. Draft lottery doesn't stop teams from trying to get better picks it just makes it harder to get the best reward for doing so by reducing your odds of getting what you want.

OK thanks for that I couldn't remember the history of the waiver system.

 

[eternalbedhead]

Laf would turn this franchise around instantly.

He'd definitely add a lot of offensive skill to our lineup but we're kidding ourselves if we think a top line LW (and potential franchise player) was the only thing we needed to start competing again. We have three question marks on our back end for defense -- four if you count Manson. Our center core needs work. Gibson has not been superhuman this year and we can't expect him to carry us in the future.

Rosters have 23 players. If ours had only one hole then we wouldn't be in potential position to select Lafreniere in the first place.

 

[Ducks DVM]

He'd definitely add a lot of offensive skill to our lineup but we're kidding ourselves if we think a top line LW (and potential franchise player) was the only thing we needed to start competing again. We have three question marks on our back end for defense -- four if you count Manson. Our center core needs work. Gibson has not been superhuman this year and we can't expect him to carry us in the future.

Rosters have 23 players. If ours had only one hole then we wouldn't be in potential position to select Lafreniere in the first place.

This is also why tanking can work in the NBA. One player has more effect on that sport than any other team sport.

 

[AngelDuck]

Lafrieniere is Proving to be the best prospect since at least Matthews. Adding him would be huge, there’s no doubt. Doesn’t solve the defense but it gives you the surefire franchise player we need.

it’s one of the few things I can get excited about right now, let me have this

 

[Deuce22]

Lafrieniere is Proving to be the best prospect since at least Matthews. Adding him would be huge, there’s no doubt. Doesn’t solve the defense but it gives you the surefire franchise player we need.

it’s one of the few things I can get excited about right now, let me have this

An 11.5% chance of something happening isn't enough to get me excited.

 

[AngelDuck]

An 11.5% chance of something happening isn't enough to get me excited.

To each their own

 

[bracer028]

The NBA has the same system and it did pretty much nothing to discourage tanking. I don't think tanking was much of a problem. Pretty much the reason they switched was because the Oilers, who never tanked, got ridiculously lucky over a six year stretch.

Honestly I don't think there should be a lottery at all, but whatever it's not the worst thing and maybe it'll work in our favor this year.

Wait wait wait. The oilers never tank, but there were posters that said we shouldnt be tanking like the oilers to get high end draft picks.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Wait wait wait. The oilers never tank, but there were posters that said we shouldnt be tanking like the oilers to get high end draft picks.

They didn't. People sometimes assume they did because they were so bad for so long but they never really tanked. They're still a cautionary tale, though, as they show how hard it is to get out of that rut if you're consistently bad, even with the ridiculous help they received. The Sabres, who did tank, are another example.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Wait wait wait. The oilers never tank, but there were posters that said we shouldnt be tanking like the oilers to get high end draft picks.

No, people are saying that stinking so bad that you get top picks, whether by just being horrifc /poorly managed or by being intentionally bad, usually results in said team being out of the playoffs for essentially the next decade more often than not.

Edmonton, Buffalo, Arizona, Carolina, Montreal, New Jersey, NYI, Florida, Ottawa, Detroit, Colorado are all examples of what top 5 drafting doesn’t do for you. Toronto may have turned themselves into a playoff team, but nobody sees them as a Cup contender, and they don’t have the Cap space to fix it.

“But those teams are just poorly managed!” Yes, that’s the point. The well run teams don’t eviscerate themselves, they keep mid-level talent that’s on good contracts during their off seasons.

 

[DuckTech]

I was told that there would be tank talk in here...are we talking things like Panzer and Sherman ooooor like hot water????

...

....


I'll show myself out.

 

[pbgoalie]

Laf would turn this franchise around instantly.

And then first game against the Avs someone headshots him