Douglas Murray: What a hit!

[Athletique_Canadien]

6:19 of the 1st - a nice pass that ended up offside by Desharnais.

 

[Athletique_Canadien]

4:40 of the 1st - nice shift by Murray!!!

 

[Athletique_Canadien]

At 14:35 of the 2nd period - Murray & Galchenyuk have a miscue. Neither at fault. Murray handles it like a vet. Pins the attacker against the boards, then deflects the puck outside our zone on a deflection/poke. No chances against. Solid so far

 

[Athletique_Canadien]

At 12:20 of the 2nd period - Murray shuts down Koivu & clears the puck. This is getting silly. Douglas, you're making this too easy

 

[Athletique_Canadien]

At 6:20 of the 2nd period - Murray blocks a shot

 

[Talks to Goalposts]

OK Talk to Goalposts, I will provide my benchmark for success for Murray.

1) Given that he is a sixth defensemen in a 7 defensemen league and being paid like one in both cap hit and term, his expected performance based on core metrics is between the 14th and 28th percentiles of NHL dmen, where you can adjust the numbers slightly if you disagree with the lazy 7 dmen approximation I'm making As such, Murray should converge to 21st percentile once a large sample size is reached, and if he does so he will be "average" for his role. A respectable basket of stats should be used, and we should recognise that the margin error itself will be a few percentage points.

2) He needs to contribute something else effectively that is not captured by core stats. Marc-Andre Bergeron resurrected our power play, and later Thomas Kaberle did so as well but not to the same extent. Hal Gill ate up minutes on the penalty kill very effectively. For Murray, he can provide something our team is missing, he can provide devastating hits and he can win some fights and stand up for teammates.


Walls have become obsolete, but not passive defense, and anyway this analogy sucks because NHL teams have not invented gunpowder or any equivalent.

My point is not that passive defense is obsolute, its that it tends to be insufficent on its own an inferior to active defensive systems. To be effective it tends to need some overwhelming advantage to exploit. And the gunpowder analog for hockey would be transition ability for defensmen.


That's a reasonable and fair position to take, that we can revisit in the future. I'll note though, that your not staking out the position that some people are taking that he's a preferable option to a player like Diaz. I'd be more than willing to spot you that his physical game is likely to be that additional element not captured by core measurements. My position isn't that its a useless element, just one that does not have the appriciable effect that is sometimes claimed

My own prediction is that Murray will have a noticeble negative impact on his teammates ability to create shots reducing offense and any defensive advantage he brings will not be sufficent to compensate.

 

[Athletique_Canadien]

At 16:00 of the 3rd - Murray picks up his man but allows the pass. The fact that it was Parros on the backcheck is doubly annoying.

 

[DAChampion]

My point is not that passive defense is obsolute, its that it tends to be insufficent on its own an inferior to active defensive systems. To be effective it tends to need some overwhelming advantage to exploit. And the gunpowder analog for hockey would be transition ability for defensmen.

But there are five non-goalie players on the ice per team, passive defense can be a component of the overall strategy without it defining every specific player. Countries still use passive defense, to use a 20th century example, the United States acquired thousands of nuclear weapons in world war II (active defense), but they also implemented a suburbanisation strategy to be less vulnerable to nuclear extermination (passive defense).

That's a reasonable and fair position to take, that we can revisit in the future. I'll note though, that your not staking out the position that some people are taking that he's a preferable option to a player like Diaz. I'd be more than willing to spot you that his physical game is likely to be that additional element not captured by core measurements. My position isn't that its a useless element, just one that does not have the appriciable effect that is sometimes claimed

My own prediction is that Murray will have a noticeble negative impact on his teammates ability to create shots reducing offense and any defensive advantage he brings will not be sufficent to compensate.

I don't actually understand why everybody else hates Diaz, but, the way I see it, Murray, Diaz, and Bouillon are in competition, as I expect only one of them to return next year. Who comes back depends on their relative play, and on the progression of Beaulieu, Tinordi, and Pateryn. Murray might also become less useful if Desharnais, Gionta, and Briere all disappear.

 

[Analyzer*]

Great job, AC. Hopefully people who upload stuff can grab his hits with the assistance of your time stamps.

 

[habitue*]

But there are five non-goalie players on the ice per team, passive defense can be a component of the overall strategy without it defining every specific player. Countries still use passive defense, to use a 20th century example, the United States acquired thousands of nuclear weapons in world war II (active defense), but they also implemented a suburbanisation strategy to be less vulnerable to nuclear extermination (passive defense).


I don't actually understand why everybody else hates Diaz, but, the way I see it, Murray, Diaz, and Bouillon are in competition, as I expect only one of them to return next year. Who comes back depends on their relative play, and on the progression of Beaulieu, Tinordi, and Pateryn. Murray might also become less useful if Desharnais, Gionta, and Briere all disappear.

Let's be patient. I don't think Bouillon nor Diaz will be back. Murray could be our 7th d-man. But I won't cry if he's gone.

Gionta will be gone, and I don't see how they cannot trade DD. I would take a pick + an AHL minor leaguer for him. Brière is one concussion away from retirement.

 

[Athletique_Canadien]

Great job, AC. Hopefully people who upload stuff can grab his hits with the assistance of your time stamps.

Yeah, even if they record the game on their PVR's they can go to the exact time. I wasn't happy he allowed the pass that led to a goal but in his defense there wasn't too much he could do about it. IMO; he wasn't part of the problem last night & even though I'm angry with Therrien I am glad he's putting Murray out rarely & sporadically. I'd rather he have another partner than the Cube though. Diaz maybe. At least Emelin is on the horizon