Proposal: Dougie Hamilton

[Winger98]

But... why?

And odd to me that Calgary radio would key in on Hamilton, when Brodie has been just as bad (I'd say worse) and is a better player with higher expectations.

I think part of it is that we're on a five game streak and we look pretty good, while Calgary has been less than stellar. This is the best time to guy a guy, though. His perceived value is lower than it will likely remain, his team is looking to shake things up a bit (apparently), and maybe we can grab him for a price we can afford - in other words, not Larkin and Mrazek, the common refrain around here whenever Holland can't finish a trade.

 

[Yemack]

Have no interest in him. Actually negative interest due to his cap hit and what's going to cost to acquire him.

Calgary wanting to dump him at this point sounds like they want to con another team to take their problem.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Just like Tyler Myers in Buffalo? If Hamilton was as good as you suggest he'd still be in Boston. He's be a cornerstone player to build around. They didn't mind shipping him out. He's a good defenseman that probably needs to be a #3 on a good team.

Winnipeg is also a terrible hockey team?

Also, remember that time with Tyler Seguin and that time GMPC signed stupid deals to guys like Kelly, Seidenberg and Thornton because of some misbegotten sense of identity as opposed to skill. The same contracts that made it so they couldn't actually afford to SIGN Hamilton who also didn't want to play in Boston anymore?

Hamilton would be our best defenseman.

 

[Claypool]

Hamilton would be our best defenseman.

And the team would be well on its way to missing the playoffs. Hamilton isn't that good, and I find it hilarious people are still trying to defend him (and Myers) still at this point. They aren't top-pairing guys that you can win with.

 

[Frk It]

Hamilton isn't that good, and I find it hilarious people are still trying to defend him (and Myers) still at this point. They aren't top-pairing guys that you can win with.

Didn't you say essentially the same thing about Mike Green before we signed him? He's logging 23 min a night and our best defenseman by a wide gap so far.

Sometimes guys can get a change of scenery (and more opportunity) and do well. We have to look for guys that aren't currently top pairing guys on teams with deep defensive units, because a guy who is a legitimate top pairing guy already isn't even going to be available to begin with. So we literally have to look for guys who could blossom with an increased role. It is a risky proposition, and you are right there are going to be guys that are fools gold, but it is a risk we probably have to take at some point.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

And the team would be well on its way to missing the playoffs. Hamilton isn't that good, and I find it hilarious people are still trying to defend him (and Myers) still at this point. They aren't top-pairing guys that you can win with.

Hamilton definitely is and is also 23 years old.

Myers would also be the best defenseman on this team, even though he's more of a #3.

If a team with Dougie Hamilton or Tyler Myers are on their way to miss the playoffs, then our team now is definitely going to miss the playoffs.(which, for the record, isn't a safe bet, current record, notwithstanding.)

 

[Wood Stick]

Calgary has two top 25 defenseman in the league on their roster (IMO, even though Brodie has had rough start), in Brodie and Giordano, so different situation there than here. Also why Hamilton may even be potentially available to begin with.

Hamilton has played 19:05 so far, not really 3rd pairing minutes.

I'm not really sure what you're arguing about with me here. Dougie Hamilton played 17:30, which was clearly less than Gio, Brodie, Wideman and even Engelland. Engelland played 3 minutes more actually. Seeing as 4 defenseman played at least 3 higher minutes than him I think it's safe to say he was on the third pair.

On the season, he's still 5th on the team per defenders in TOI.

An issue with Hamilton is he's a number 2, plays a similar style of sorts to Brodie and Gio, meaning being a top pair guy with big PP minutes. Wideman is their PP guy as well. Hamilton clearly doesn't fit in Calgary. It was an odd move.

Calgary needs help on the wing. Detroit has that. Tatar is my favourite Red Wing, but a a Tatar for Hamilton type of swap makes sense.

 

[Frk It]

I'm not really sure what you're arguing about with me here. Dougie Hamilton played 17:30, which was clearly less than Gio, Brodie, Wideman and even Engelland. Engelland played 3 minutes more actually. Seeing as 4 defenseman played at least 3 higher minutes than him I think it's safe to say he was on the third pair.

On the season, he's still 5th on the team per defenders in TOI.

An issue with Hamilton is he's a number 2, plays a similar style of sorts to Brodie and Gio, meaning being a top pair guy with big PP minutes. Wideman is their PP guy as well. Hamilton clearly doesn't fit in Calgary. It was an odd move.

Calgary needs help on the wing. Detroit has that. Tatar is my favourite Red Wing, but a a Tatar for Hamilton type of swap makes sense.

Wasn't trying to argue, was just trying to point a couple things out.

Basically your 2nd to last paragraph is exactly what I was trying to say, and I think just because he isn't being used a lot in Calgary doesn't mean he wouldn't come here and have an impact. I certainly think that he would. Actually think the right side of our defense would be very good if we added Hamilton. Dougie, Green, and Sproul would be nice.

 

[Wood Stick]

Wasn't trying to argue, was just trying to point a couple things out.

Basically your 2nd to last paragraph is exactly what I was trying to say, and I think just because he isn't being used a lot in Calgary doesn't mean he wouldn't come here and have an impact. I certainly think that he would. Actually think the right side of our defense would be very good if we added Hamilton. Dougie, Green, and Sproul would be nice.

They all kind of play the same though. Big mobile RHD that thrive offensively, but at times lack a good head defensively. Marchy is a solid DD so I'm happy with him mixing in. Sproul's worked for three games. There's still a good chance he doesn't. If you put Dougie in where Sproul is, I think you have something really good.

I worry about Green tiring out down the stretch for sure.

 

[SirloinUB]

But... why?

He is too relaxed in the D-zone and plays much softer than he should. Add in the contract, and Calgary's expected return and it becomes a tough sell. Also the fact that he didn't last in Boston isn't alarming in itself, but the fact that they were willing to give him up for nothing but draft picks is. You just don't see teams giving up high end NHL players for magic beans very often (Trouba/Fowler/Lindholm come to mind)

The other thing is he has had a "sheltered" roll with Brodie/Gio taking the tough matchups; Hamilton hasn't exactly looked consistent against the middle 6 matchups.

And odd to me that Calgary radio would key in on Hamilton, when Brodie has been just as bad (I'd say worse) and is a better player with higher expectations.

Well Brodie took heat, but being that he is a better player the assumption was that he will rebound. With Hamilton, he has been productive yet his play isn't reassuring and often doesn't add up to what you see on the stat line. Being that Hamilton hasn't demonstrated that same high level of play, there is concern about how good he really is.

To relate this to the Red Wings think of a Howard vs Mrazek comparison from last season. If Mrazek had a bad game or two, the reactions were, "bad games happen to everyone including the best player." When Howard had a bad game the reactions were, "See Howard sucks!" The thought process being that when a perceived lesser player struggles it confirms what we already believe vs a higher end player going through a slump, its dismissed as just that, a slump.

I guess this is all just a long way of saying, that Brodie has demonstrated a high level of play so the assumption is he will rebound. Hamilton, having never demonstrated that same level (even against lesser competition), does not get the benefit of the doubt.

 

[wings95]

May be reuniting him with coach Houda will benefit him?

 

[Frk It]

He is too relaxed in the D-zone and plays much softer than he should. Add in the contract, and Calgary's expected return and it becomes a tough sell. Also the fact that he didn't last in Boston isn't alarming in itself, but the fact that they were willing to give him up for nothing but draft picks is. You just don't see teams giving up high end NHL players for magic beans very often (Trouba/Fowler/Lindholm come to mind)

The other thing is he has had a "sheltered" roll with Brodie/Gio taking the tough matchups; Hamilton hasn't exactly looked consistent against the middle 6 matchups.



Well Brodie took heat, but being that he is a better player the assumption was that he will rebound. With Hamilton, he has been productive yet his play isn't reassuring and often doesn't add up to what you see on the stat line. Being that Hamilton hasn't demonstrated that same high level of play, there is concern about how good he really is.

To relate this to the Red Wings think of a Howard vs Mrazek comparison from last season. If Mrazek had a bad game or two, the reactions were, "bad games happen to everyone including the best player." When Howard had a bad game the reactions were, "See Howard sucks!" The thought process being that when a perceived lesser player struggles it confirms what we already believe vs a higher end player going through a slump, its dismissed as just that, a slump.

I guess this is all just a long way of saying, that Brodie has demonstrated a high level of play so the assumption is he will rebound. Hamilton, having never demonstrated that same level (even against lesser competition), does not get the benefit of the doubt.

Hamilton is definitely a purely offensive defenseman at this stage of his career. But he is a good one. We had 0 defenseman eclipse 40 pts last year, and we will have at most 1 do it this year. Could really use another guy that produces like that. And I think Dougie is a safe bet for that.

We'd have to hope the rest of his game rounds out, but he's only 23, and I thinkob Houda has done a good job with Sproul so far so he should help with that assuming he sticks around.

 

[obey86]

Another overrated soon to be star defenseman the Wings should have traded for.

 

[Wood Stick]

Another overrated soon to be star defenseman the Wings should have traded for.

Dougie Hamilton is a 6'6 23 year old RHD with 2 40 point seasons to his name. He's a number 2/3 on most teams. He isn't overrated, man. If Mike Green and Ryan Sproul weren't to have played so well thus far this thread would be all on board of this idea and ***** at Kenny for not aquiring him.

I've never heard much bad things about him. If you see a thread about Tyler Seguin, most that have met him in person claim he's the biggest POS possible. There's certainly a difference between these guys.

 

[obey86]

If only the Wings had all the young, underachieving defensemen who either got dumped by their team or who's teams are looking to dump them. Then, the Wings would be awesome!!! Until said defensemen come here and we start to hate them too and wish for the next crop of underachieving young defensemen that other teams are looking to get rid of.

 

[Yemack]

I just think his skill set is not in terrible need right now. We are not going to make multiple trades this season. If we are going to make one it should be the one that really addresses our needs or bolsters our strength. Our focus should be fast/smart puck movement in our zone so that we can move the hell up.

I'm sure Dougie Hamilton is a good hockey player but it's a luxury we dont need if we think about the cost. Calgary probably saw that there is a seller's market for D man and wants to rob another team blind. Also how do we fit his 5.75 mil in our cap? I would hate to think we have to ship that much contracts off our roster just so we get a player we dont really need.

 

[Winger98]

I just think his skill set is not in terrible need right now. We are not going to make multiple trades this season. If we are going to make one it should be the one that really addresses our needs or bolsters our strength. Our focus should be fast/smart puck movement in our zone so that we can move the hell up.

I'm sure Dougie Hamilton is a good hockey player but it's a luxury we dont need if we think about the cost. Calgary probably saw that there is a seller's market for D man and wants to rob another team blind. Also how do we fit his 5.75 mil in our cap? I would hate to think we have to ship that much contracts off our roster just so we get a player we dont really need.

Calgary is also off to a slow start and might be looking for a jump start, not looking to rob someone blind. Also, I think the cap hit is a big reason they won't be robbing someone blind. We have a worse cap situation than most, but a lot of teams are within Hamilton's cap hit of going over the ceiling.

I don't think anyone wants to pay out the nose for Hamilton, but if Calgary is putting him out there it doesn't hurt to see what they're looking for. Something like Tatar+Smith+pick wouldn't be bad for us, and might address one of their needs. I'm not sure why Calgary didn't hang onto Hudler in the first place. I thought he fit in really well there.

 

[Frk It]

If only the Wings had all the young, underachieving defensemen who either got dumped by their team or who's teams are looking to dump them. Then, the Wings would be awesome!!! Until said defensemen come here and we start to hate them too and wish for the next crop of underachieving young defensemen that other teams are looking to get rid of.

Wut?

 

[Yemack]

Calgary is also off to a slow start and might be looking for a jump start, not looking to rob someone blind. Also, I think the cap hit is a big reason they won't be robbing someone blind. We have a worse cap situation than most, but a lot of teams are within Hamilton's cap hit of going over the ceiling.

I don't think anyone wants to pay out the nose for Hamilton, but if Calgary is putting him out there it doesn't hurt to see what they're looking for. Something like Tatar+Smith+pick wouldn't be bad for us, and might address one of their needs. I'm not sure why Calgary didn't hang onto Hudler in the first place. I thought he fit in really well there.

well Tatar + Smith seems pretty significant enough that I dont want Hamilton at that cost. That's the problem. Like I said, I dont want to offload that much talent to get Hamilton whose talent we dont desperately need.

Also I am willing to go long on Tatar. Bit of slow start for him, sure but I know he has a lot more to give. It's just that our 2nd line isn't meshing well right now. Him, Z and Sheahan need to have a sit down and talk how each think hockey should be played. Z is not going at 100% right now and we may prefer not to be, but you can see he still sees the game at elite level and probably has most skill in our lineup. If they can understand each other better, Z can make something happen with Tatar even at him being 75%.

 

[HockeyinHD]

Wut?

It's a play on the 'Golly, maybe going out and getting all these players you wanted who haven't been very good on their other teams and perhaps wouldn't have worked here either' argument that people refuse to accept.

The specific point in this case is that perhaps thinking players who are unwanted on their current teams would be solutions here is a structural flaw in an argument.

 

[HockeyinHD]

I don't think anyone wants to pay out the nose for Hamilton, but if Calgary is putting him out there it doesn't hurt to see what they're looking for. Something like Tatar+Smith+pick wouldn't be bad for us, and might address one of their needs.

Trade prices now are likely to be higher than they will be at the deadline, although that's not a sure thing. What will be more sure is Detroit's position relative to the playoffs and whether they even need to make that kind of an acquisition, either because their blueline has firmed up without him, they are safely in, or safely out.

I'm not sure why Calgary didn't hang onto Hudler in the first place. I thought he fit in really well there.

He had one amazing season and was mediocre in the other two, and was in decline to boot... as evidenced by his role on the Panthers post-trade.

 

[Frk It]

It's a play on the 'Golly, maybe going out and getting all these players you wanted who haven't been very good on their other teams and perhaps wouldn't have worked here either' argument that people refuse to accept.

The specific point in this case is that perhaps thinking players who are unwanted on their current teams would be solutions here is a structural flaw in an argument.

Eh I mean, yeah some of them would have been bad decisions. But that doesn't mean that all are moving forward, or that we shouldn't pursue the opportunities.

I don't see how your last paragraph is true as a blanket statement. Situations vary too greatly on the trade market to make statements like that.

 

[Chance on Chance]

Trade prices now are likely to be higher than they will be at the deadline, although that's not a sure thing. What will be more sure is Detroit's position relative to the playoffs and whether they even need to make that kind of an acquisition, either because their blueline has firmed up without him, they are safely in, or safely out.



He had one amazing season and was mediocre in the other two, and was in decline to boot... as evidenced by his role on the Panthers post-trade.

He would have led the wings in points in 2 of those years and been behind 4 points the last year. Lets not act like he's some scrub

 

[Claypool]

He would have led the wings in points in 2 of those years

Just like Robert Lang would have lead the league in scoring if he was in Detroit and not Washington.

Hudler would not have gotten the icetime in Detroit that he got in Calgary, much less the powerplay situations.

 

[Chance on Chance]

Just like Robert Lang would have lead the league in scoring if he was in Detroit and not Washington.

Hudler would not have gotten the icetime in Detroit that he got in Calgary, much less the powerplay situations.

not even close to the same

sure he would have not like we had an amazing top 6 those years.