Dougie Hamilton vs. Drew Doughty

[bearcountry17]

Dougie Hamilton must be the only top 5 Dman in league history to be 4th in ES TOIPG on his own team.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Dougie Hamilton must be the only top 5 Dman in league history to be 4th in ES TOIPG on his own team.

He was 3rd in the games he played in, Skjei passed him because he played in 7 games when Hamilton was injured.

NHL.com Stats

Hedman was 3rd in ES TOI/GP just last season.

NHL.com Stats

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I don’t doubt what any of the numbers say or that Doughty’s not playing his best, but I’d still take Doughty. I’m not a Hamilton fan. Soft, seems to not get along that well within the team, and he’s inconsistent defensively. Also is injured a lot.

 

[biturbo19]

So why is it that throughout his career xGF and GF results that he's had away from star partners has remained good.

How many minutes has he played away from stud partners in his career? Relative to the minutes with stars he's mostly played with? Easy enough to shelter a guy in spurts like that.

xGF and GF results are heavily driven by the forward matchups anyway. You put an offensive defenceman guy with the top scoring lines, and they're gonna have a good time on the charts. Which is the exact role Dougie is good at, and his coaches have used him particularly well in that regard. But as an all around presence? I'd rather have the guy i don't even have to think about the matchups or even really the pairings on. That's Doughty.

 

[Coach Parker]

Hamilton is a loser. Nice guy, but loses and withers when the pressure is on.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Yep, just look at like the first ten posts, and wait till OP contributes his thoughts...it'll be clear as day.

OP thinks Kase is a top 10 player, his thoughts dont matter.

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

seems to not get along that well within the team

 

[Kraken Jokes]

Doughty AINEC.

If the question was Slavin vs Doughty, this poll would be more interesting.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Hamilton is a loser. Nice guy, but loses and withers when the pressure is on.

The amount of spite Bruins fans have for Hamilton is remarkable. The guy played less than 3 seasons for you when he wasn't even old enough to buy a beer... let it go.

 

[Coach Parker]

The amount of spite Bruins fans have for Hamilton is remarkable. The guy played less than 3 seasons for you when he wasn't even old enough to buy a beer... let it go.

You're right. I did let it go. And I was eventually wrong about Kessel being a loser so Hamilton may be the same. But for whatever reason, we can both agree that when he faces the Bruins he falters and isn't nearly as effective compared to playing anyone else in the NHL.

For whatever reason, he turns back into that guy who couldn't hold a beer when facing the Bruins.

 

[Sheppy]

As a Bruin fan, I don't really get why people hate him so much. I think the biggest thing for me is that he's a touch soft. Other than that, a damn talented d-man.

 

[tarheelhockey]

You're right. I did let it go. And I was eventually wrong about Kessel being a loser so Hamilton may be the same. But for whatever reason, we can both agree that when he faces the Bruins he falters and isn't nearly as effective compared to playing anyone else in the NHL.

For whatever reason, he turns back into that guy who couldn't hold a beer when facing the Bruins.

You realize the Bruins series was the first time he'd played since January, right? And he skated nearly 25 minutes a game and scored the only GWG of the series for his team?

If he could come off a 7-month injury directly into a playoff series against the President's Trophy winner and just flat-out dominate the game, we wouldn't be having this thread because the other choice would be Hedman.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

All of that is great, but it doesn't prove me wrong.

I haven't followed Hamilton's career extremely closely, but what I've read is that he tends to be a player that doesn't get along with teammates and that causes locker room problems. It could be wrong. If it is, explain why I'm wrong. I'm sure you are well aware of the perception out there.

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

All of that is great, but it doesn't prove me wrong.

I haven't followed Hamilton's career extremely closely, but what I've read is that he tends to be a player that doesn't get along with teammates and that causes locker room problems. It could be wrong. If it is, explain why I'm wrong. I'm sure you are well aware of the perception out there.

Doogie & Svech: A Budding Friendship

Hamilton, Svechnikov celebrate National Napping Day by pranking Foegele

Here's a shovel, in case you want to keep digging.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

OP thinks Kase is a top 10 player, his thoughts dont matter.

love taking a semi serious take from a year ago and acting like i still believe it

my top 10 list right now, not in order, would be something similar to point pettersson stone mcdavid panarin marchand bergeron couturier o'reilly pastrnak

 

[Tobias Kahun]

love taking a semi serious take from a year ago and acting like i still believe it

my top 10 list right now, not in order, would be something similar to point pettersson stone mcdavid panarin marchand bergeron couturier o'reilly pastrnak

The fact that you ever thought he was a top 10 player says enough everyone needs to know.

 

[vanarchy]

Even in 2020, I would take Doughty without a second thought.

 

[RSeen]

Doughty is coming off a terrible season while Hamilton is terrific season. Dougie and it isn't even close.

 

[datboichoi]

Dougie Hamilton had a bad 5 games, Drew Doughty has had a bad 150 games.

 

[newsportsfan123]

Drew Doughty, without a question. Hamilton is just so consistently overrated, because of who he's had the privilege of playing with, and the roles he's been able to play...it's kind of hilarious. He can produce points, and get dragged to a good results overall...but he's such a leach, and really not anywhere near the defenceman he's made out to be on paper.

It's actually vice versa, Hamilton has made his linemates better over the past 4 seasons.

 

[newsportsfan123]

You can really tell in this thread who doesn't use analytics and who does. Dougie Hamilton was a top 5 defenseman without a doubt this season and was on pace to win a Norris. I guess you can call him soft, and I wouldn't really disagree. Dougie could be more physical, but I don't see why he should be if that's not his type of game, he's fine the way he is. People often say Slavin is underrated, but honestly Hamilton may be the most underrated after this season. He never gets respect because of his "soft" game. The only correct answer is Hamilton and you can simply see that using the eye test and advanced analytics.

 

[biturbo19]

It's actually vice versa, Hamilton has made his linemates better over the past 4 seasons.

I feel like all that actually shows, is that yeah...a D pairing does better when Dougie spends 75-90% of his icetime with a particular top-end #1D.

As well as maybe suggesting that when Dougie hasn't been playing with his 75-90% of the time steady partner...it's usually because of some outside factors like injury and/or trying to shelter some other partner by playing them with the actual best, steadiest, most capable defenceman on the pairing (Gio/Slavin).

ie. The Gio/Slavin numbers without Hamilton, are influenced heavily by some really bad, young, inexperienced, or otherwise probably in way over their head partners being forced into that spot to try to "protect" them, combined with the benefit of familiarity in having two defencemen play together 75-90% of the time, which is lost when they're separated.

Whereas conversely, those "Dougie without Gio/Slavin" numbers, do show that he cannot carry a pairing himself. The only years he kinda held serve while separated from his #1D partner, are 2018-19 where he played the majority of the rest of his icetime with TVR, who is a reasonably capable defenceman in his own right. And 2019-20, with a whopping 77 minutes he played without Slavin, which is a laughable sample size. And i'd wager if you cross-reference those sample sizes based on OZ%, you'd see in both cases...much softer, offensive minutes, with far less matchup duty against opposing top players. Basically...Dougie without Gio, was substantially worse. Dougie without Slavin, probably just comes down to Pesce (who is also better than Hamilton) and others like Faulk and TVR at the time as RHD taking the brunt of tougher minutes, combined with a small sample size in the one case.


Stats and analytics without context, are pretty much useless. You can see what you want in generalized numbers like that, and can find numbers to suit whatever you're after. But when you consider it in context, they're not really screaming what you think they are.

They're screaming that Dougie Hamilton is a fine complementary defenceman, who can provide good results when playing with a better, actual #1D. That's about it. Which makes him overrated in my books, with the way some people want to suggest he's a true #1D and so on.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

I feel like all that actually shows, is that yeah...a D pairing does better when Dougie spends 75-90% of his icetime with a particular top-end #1D.

As well as maybe suggesting that when Dougie hasn't been playing with his 75-90% of the time steady partner...it's usually because of some outside factors like injury and/or trying to shelter some other partner by playing them with the actual best, steadiest, most capable defenceman on the pairing (Gio/Slavin).

ie. The Gio/Slavin numbers without Hamilton, are influenced heavily by some really bad, young, inexperienced, or otherwise probably in way over their head partners being forced into that spot to try to "protect" them, combined with the benefit of familiarity in having two defencemen play together 75-90% of the time, which is lost when they're separated.

Whereas conversely, those "Dougie without Gio/Slavin" numbers, do show that he cannot carry a pairing himself. The only years he kinda held serve while separated from his #1D partner, are 2018-19 where he played the majority of the rest of his icetime with TVR, who is a reasonably capable defenceman in his own right. And 2019-20, with a whopping 77 minutes he played without Slavin, which is a laughable sample size. And i'd wager if you cross-reference those sample sizes based on OZ%, you'd see in both cases...much softer, offensive minutes, with far less matchup duty against opposing top players. Basically...Dougie without Gio, was substantially worse. Dougie without Slavin, probably just comes down to Pesce (who is also better than Hamilton) and others like Faulk and TVR at the time as RHD taking the brunt of tougher minutes, combined with a small sample size in the one case.


Stats and analytics without context, are pretty much useless. You can see what you want in generalized numbers like that, and can find numbers to suit whatever you're after. But when you consider it in context, they're not really screaming what you think they are.

They're screaming that Dougie Hamilton is a fine complementary defenceman, who can provide good results when playing with a better, actual #1D. That's about it. Which makes him overrated in my books, with the way some people want to suggest he's a true #1D and so on.

The numbers aren’t screaming that at all. You’re screaming it and then working your way backwards to try to explain how the numbers support it. But they don’t.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Has Doughty really fallen that far? I barely watch LA nowadays because I don't find them remotely fun to watch, so I rarely see him play. Last time I watched them semi-regularly he still looked like a top 5 defenseman in hockey.

 

[Rorschach]

I'm really looking forward to this year. I'm hoping we solidify our left side and get a young promising LHD for Drew, namely Tobias Bjornfot for him, re-vamp the forward corps with some high end, young and hungry talent (Vilardi plus Frk is a good start, maybe Turcotte and/or Stutzle, complimented by guys like Grundstrom and Kaliyev). Last year we had holes and DD had UFA journeyman Ben Hutton for a partner.

Once the Kings are trying to win something, you will see Drew Doughty re-motivated to become what he really is, a dominant, all-situations, all matchups, world class defenseman.

Sheltered, offensive role player, Dougie Hamilton is not really a comparable. Like another poster said, you really should compare all-situation, all matchup defensemen with each other and Slavvin is the comparable, not Hamilton.