Value of: Doughty to Pittsburgh

[Kingspiracy]

I'd love to hear an argument of how a 13th overall or a goalie with 29 regular season games under his belt and no playoff experience is worth a 23 year old on an ELC for another year who put up playoff numbers like these in his first 2 years :
............

A couple of playoff runs doesn't maketh the man. What he has done in the playoffs is impressive, but like I said earlier He's on a team with Crosby and Malkin, I don't think his number transpose over to LA. comparing him to Lemieux with such a small sample size is silly. His stats outside of 37 postseason games isn't anything special. He shoots at a near 30% rate in those games as opposed to around 15% outside of the playoffs. If he can throw an 85 goal season in there somewhere then good for you, i'm sold on what you're saying.

Jake Guentzel Stats and News

Mario Lemieux Stats and News




Edit,

Barzal, Debrusk and Connor were all picked after that 13th overall, They are putting up similar numbers to Guenzal without holding crosbys hand.

Mathew Barzal Stats and News

Jake DeBrusk Stats and News

Kyle Connor Stats and News

 

[GordieHowsUrBreath]

i'd give up guentzel and three 1st round picks, i'd trade pretty much anything outside of Crosby and malkin

the pens cup window is now, Crosby and malkin aren't getting younger adding a defenseman like doughty would help more than having a player like guentzel

 

[ILikeTurtles]

Yeah that Jake Guentzel kid sure isn't helping you win games. He is only leading the playoffs in points still despite being knocked out...

 

[domaug]

Yeah that Jake Guentzel kid sure isn't helping you win games. He is only leading the playoffs in points still despite being knocked out...

no you don't understand, it's all because of Crosby. Crosby has to "hold his hand" for him to do ANYTHING.

the posts on this board, man.

 

[GordieHowsUrBreath]

Yeah that Jake Guentzel kid sure isn't helping you win games. He is only leading the playoffs in points still despite being knocked out...

you have to give up something to get something

I can't imagine anybody choosing guentzel over doughty straight up, so why is it unreasonable to trade guentzel?

 

[domaug]

you have to give up something to get something

I can't imagine anybody choosing guentzel over doughty straight up, so why is it unreasonable to trade guentzel?

for me the issue isn't trading Guentzel + for Doughty. the issue is Kings fans saying Guentzel is essentially only a product of Crosby and would just fall apart at the first sign of contact.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

It would cost the farm. Because you know 87/71 aren't going anywhere. Probably wouldn't be worth it. But maybe it would. Maybe Doughty assures another cup or 2 and maybe it is worth it at that point.

f*** if I know

 

[GordieHowsUrBreath]

It would cost the farm. Because you know 87/71 aren't going anywhere. Probably wouldn't be worth it. But maybe it would. Maybe Doughty assures another cup or 2 and maybe it is worth it at that point.

**** if I know

I would give up the farm, the farm won't help win cups as much as doughty

then they will get old, they will stink just in time to draft the next generational talents

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

A couple of playoff runs doesn't maketh the man. What he has done in the playoffs is impressive,

42 points in 37 playoff games makes the man much more valuable than Martin Jones after 29 regular season games - which was the argument, remember - and suggesting anything less is laughable.

but like I said earlier He's on a team with Crosby and Malkin, I don't think his number transpose over to LA. comparing him to Lemieux with such a small sample size is silly.

Do you think that Crosby and Malkin are the 2 best centers of all-time? Because of all the great centers in all the eras of NHL history (including the defense-optional '80s), none of them elevated a player to score like Guentzel in their first 2 playoffs.

Barzal, Debrusk and Connor were all picked after that 13th overall, They are putting up similar numbers to Guenzal without holding crosbys hand.

Mathew Barzal Stats and News

Jake DeBrusk Stats and News

Kyle Connor Stats and News

Uh, no. You don't value a pick by the very best of the group cherry-picked after that number. Because, as you conveniently omitted, sometimes you get Jakub Zboril...who the Bruins actually selected with that #13 overall.

 

[405Exit]

that's not really how trade value works. you can't value someone based on what you THINK they WILL do in ideal situations.

That’s the value from any outside fan looking in for a Kings perspective. I’m not the only one suggesting 2 first rounders +++. If Pens want the cup that bad that’s the asking price. And it’s well deserved. The entire league knows Pitt is one solid defenseman away from winning it all again. Lets not be foolish here. That’s the evaluation from me and numerous others in the thread.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Well, since Guentzel is clearly better than Crosby and Malkin (who am I to argue with stats) you should be able to trade one of them straight up for Doughty.

You're hilarious by the way

Unfortunately, an impending UFA Doughty isn't worth any of them.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Unfortunately, an impending UFA Doughty isn't worth any of them.

Why does this guy keep calling a full season of Doughty + playoff run an 'impending UFA'...

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Kings trading Doughty would be like the Penguins trading Malkin with 1 year on his deal. What would you trade for him? If you wouldn't be happy accepting something like Toffoli + first for Malkin (assuming he only had 1 year on his deal) then the Kings obviously wouldn't be happy accepting Guentzel + first.

Also, I know Guentzel is possibly better than Toffoli but I hope you understand what I'm saying. A 50-60 point forward and a late first isn't enough for Doughty. What I'd ask for if I was the Kings? A top 6 NHL forward under the age of 25 and also under team control for a least 3 seasons + top prospect + 1st round pick + 2nd round pick and a conditional 2nd round pick (becomes a 1st if he re-signs or you win the cup in 2019). Of course things can change depending on who the players are and/or what # overall the picks are. So for the Penguins, at a very minimum I'd accept Guentzel + Sprong + 1st + 2nd.

Toffoli only has 2 more years of team control, so that comparison doesn't fly. If like Guentzel, Toffoli were still 23, on his ELC for '18-'19 and an RFA after that, then he would be worth more than we could expect for an impending UFA Malkin if he were dealt.

It works both ways. Clearly that doesn't make Toffoli a better player or anywhere near it, but team control is much more important than is being recognized here.

And to be honest I'm not all that thrilled with getting Guentzel since he's a smaller forward. Really good player and I really like his game but he seems to get hit hard a lot and the West has been known to be the more physical, grinding of the two conferences.

For reference's sake, Guentzel scored 4 goals in 7 Cup Finals games against the very best the West had to offer in 2017.

The narrative that small players would struggle in the West is bogus when you consider how well guys like Kane, Marchessault, Arvidsson, Panarin, and Gaudreau have performed there.

It's also pretty likely that Doughty re-signs with the Kings so the Penguins or any other team would have to blow away the Kings with their offer. Kings are not looking to trade him at all.

That's fair.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Why does this guy keep calling a full season of Doughty + playoff run an 'impending UFA'...

Because that's what you call a player with one year left on his deal. Is this news to you?

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Because that's what you call a player with one year left on his deal. Is this news to you?

Everyone knows he has a year left. You are making it sound like a year+ of a future hall of fame defenseman has no legit trade value by using that term.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Everyone knows he has a year left. You are making it sound like a year+ of a future hall of fame defenseman has no legit trade value.

It does have value. It just doesn't have any historical precedent for being as valuable as some here think.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

It does have value. It just doesn't have any historical precedent for being as valuable as some here think.

Fair enough

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

sprong, letang, 2 first round picks for doughty

Would you consider a package for Petro from St Louis who is signed with Letang and Guentzel as part of that package? I think we need to do something as we didn't even make the playoffs this year. Hard to trade Petro but we do have Parayko and a RH D coming back that could play on the powerplay and top six forward would be of interest to me. I think it may cost a bit more though. Petro is also signed.

 

[GordieHowsUrBreath]

Would you consider a package for Petro from St Louis who is signed with Letang and Guentzel as part of that package? I think we need to do something as we didn't even make the playoffs this year. Hard to trade Petro but we do have Parayko and a RH D coming back that could play on the powerplay and top six forward would be of interest to me. I think it may cost a bit more though. Petro is also signed.

whatever it takes to get doughty

 

[405Exit]

whatever it takes to get doughty

If Doughty was even available which is highly unlikely. Most Playoff teams would be in on em. I can see doughty going for 3 first rounders +A grade prospect +A grade Prospect with contingency on Finals appearance. That would be the final buzzer beater this offseason.

Pitt isn’t the only team who is one defenseman away from winning a Stanley Cup.

 

[405Exit]

The reason why I made the above comment is because the East isn’t going to let Doughty, Malkin, Crosby run an entire season train on teams, and a straight shot to the ECF.

I bet Boston says Hello along with Toronto before all things said and done.

And don’t lecture me about cap. If Doughty is available you make room for em.

 

[KingsOfCali25]

LA would rather give Doughty 8 years at $100m than take a garbage offer in a trade

 

[405Exit]

LA would rather give Doughty 8 years at $100m than take a garbage offer in a trade

Yah it would be silly to give Doughty up. It’s all hypothetical of course. So you kings fans have nothing to worry about. Blake would be in a automatic board meeting explaining how stupid he is for handing a Stanley Cup over to the trade partner.

 

[third man in]

Would you consider a package for Petro from St Louis who is signed with Letang and Guentzel as part of that package? I think we need to do something as we didn't even make the playoffs this year. Hard to trade Petro but we do have Parayko and a RH D coming back that could play on the powerplay and top six forward would be of interest to me. I think it may cost a bit more though. Petro is also signed.

Have you seen Letang play recently? You could get a much better package for Petro.

 

[PensRedwings2887]

One year of Doughty is worth all that?

Doughty's a top 5 defenseman in the league. Kings are gona want that type of offer if their possibly going to move their best player, and thats no knock on Kopitar, but I tend to believe defenseman are more valuable than forwards