Value of: Doughty to Pittsburgh

[Tryblot]

Starts with Guentzel and then add significantly.

 

[Kingspiracy]

Because that's how good faith arguments are supposed to work. One person makes a point, then someone else makes a counter-point. They cite examples to support their point.

Doughty's arguably the best defenseman in the league (and I would argue he is), but impending UFAs simply don't have that kind of value. It's unprecedented.

If you remember, i was quite happy to leave it as we agree to disagree, i don't have the energy to try and form an argument for what i believe is pretty obvious.

Villardi is more valuable than either malkin or crosby, because im some random fanboy that thinks so, is it worth arguing over?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

If you remember, i was quite happy to leave it as we agree to disagree, i don't have the energy to try and form an argument for what i believe is pretty obvious.

Villardi is more valuable than either malkin or crosby, because im some random fanboy that thinks so, is it worth arguing over?

That's a baseless opinion, so it's hardly relevant. I based my opinion on precedent.

So far, the only rebuttal's been either "Doughty's worth more lol" or "I can't be bothered to look for that", which is illustrative.

 

[Kingspiracy]

That's a baseless opinion, so it's hardly relevant. I based my opinion on precedent.

So far, the only rebuttal's been either "Doughty's worth more lol" or "I can't be bothered to look for that", which is illustrative.

What precedent. Youve just gone whawhawha guenztal is clutch so is worth more.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

What precedent. Youve just gone whawhawha guenztal is clutch so is worth more.

I said that no impending UFA has ever gotten a Guentzel-calibre asset back in a trade.

If you think that's wrong, feel free to give me an example from any point in NHL history.

 

[ScoreZeGoals]

Pens seem like an awful trading partner to acquire Doughty

 

[Kingspiracy]

I said that no impending UFA has ever gotten a Guentzel-calibre asset back in a trade.

If you think that's wrong, feel free to give me an example from any point in NHL history.

Lucic (with retention) to La for martin jones, 13th oa 1st and colin miller.

Doughty is just a little more important than lucic though isnt he?

 

[GordieHowsUrBreath]

sprong, letang, 2 first round picks for doughty

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Lucic (with retention) to La for martin jones, 13th oa 1st and colin miller.

Doughty is just a little more important than lucic though isnt he?

Exactly what piece in that trade was supposed to be as valuable as Guentzel is right now?

 

[Tryblot]

sprong, letang, 2 first round picks for doughty

Guentzel, 2 first round picks, 1 second and Sprong.

 

[Kingspiracy]

I'd argue the 13th or jones are, but im not sure you're able to look past your feelings [mod] for guenztal.

However doughty is worth just a little more than lucic anyway.

 

[ColbyChaos]

Even for a rental and being on the conservative side of value you would need at the very least Sprong or Guentzal + a 1st even that would be underselling for a top 5 Dman where more teams would be in on if he is hypothetically made available. Doughty is anything but your typical rental and a lot of teams will be in on him driving up the price.

 

[thadd]

this is exactly how not to get doughty.

Not if Edmonton and L.A switch GMs.

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

Not if Edmonton and L.A switch GMs.

I don't think that's how it works. They'll most likely hold onto their current rosters.

 

[405Exit]

I edited the OP to clarify. Doughty on his current contract, 1 year remaining then UFA.

Penguins don’t have the assets they want to give up for even 1 year of doughty. Getting Doughty almost guarantees a Stanley Cup on the Penguins squad. If I was a kings fan I want 2 firsts and some of your best prospects on contingent. And I’m a ducks fan.

 

[405Exit]

If your offer for Drew starts with Maatta then you need to find a new starting point.

If Pens Want doughty the offer starts with 2 first round picks +++

Kings aren’t stupid. They are basically handing one year of a Stanley Cup to Pittsburgh. No one can handle that team in the East. That’s an automatic SCF appearance and likely champions

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I'd argue the 13th or jones are, but im not sure you're able to look past your feelings [mod] for guenztal.

However doughty is worth just a little more than lucic anyway.

I'd love to hear an argument of how a 13th overall or a goalie with 29 regular season games under his belt and no playoff experience is worth a 23 year old on an ELC for another year who put up playoff numbers like these in his first 2 years :

 

[Doyoulikeapples*]

Signed doughty would cost Malkin. LA isn’t going to gift the pens more cups by taking their trash/secondary pieces for doughty.

 

[third man in]

I'd love to hear an argument of how a 13th overall or a goalie with 29 regular season games under his belt and no playoff experience is worth a 23 year old on an ELC for another year who put up playoff numbers like these in his first 2 years :

Well, since Guentzel is clearly better than Crosby and Malkin (who am I to argue with stats) you should be able to trade one of them straight up for Doughty.

You're hilarious by the way

 

[philip]

A 48 point Guentzel is worth more than a Doughty I've heard it all now!

 

[YP44]

If Pens Want doughty the offer starts with 2 first round picks +++

Kings aren’t stupid. They are basically handing one year of a Stanley Cup to Pittsburgh. No one can handle that team in the East. That’s an automatic SCF appearance and likely champions

This is the closest thing I could think of.

Make it 2020 1st, 2021 1st and conditional 2019 2nd (becomes a first if the Pens win the cup)

Even then that is a hard pill for both clubs to swallow and only makes sense in EA. However I could at least understand the logic behind it.

 

[YP44]

My fear with Guentzel is what is he like without being surrounded with such great forward depth. Is he Martin Jones who became a legit starter outside of LA's defensive system or Bernier?

 

[domaug]

Penguins don’t have the assets they want to give up for even 1 year of doughty. Getting Doughty almost guarantees a Stanley Cup on the Penguins squad. If I was a kings fan I want 2 firsts and some of your best prospects on contingent. And I’m a ducks fan.

that's not really how trade value works. you can't value someone based on what you THINK they WILL do in ideal situations.

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

Kings trading Doughty would be like the Penguins trading Malkin with 1 year on his deal. What would you trade for him? If you wouldn't be happy accepting something like Toffoli + first for Malkin (assuming he only had 1 year on his deal) then the Kings obviously wouldn't be happy accepting Guentzel + first.

Also, I know Guentzel is possibly better than Toffoli but I hope you understand what I'm saying. A 50-60 point forward and a late first isn't enough for Doughty. What I'd ask for if I was the Kings? A top 6 NHL forward under the age of 25 and also under team control for a least 3 seasons + top prospect + 1st round pick + 2nd round pick and a conditional 2nd round pick (becomes a 1st if he re-signs or you win the cup in 2019). Of course things can change depending on who the players are and/or what # overall the picks are. So for the Penguins, at a very minimum I'd accept Guentzel + Sprong + 1st + 2nd. And to be honest I'm not all that thrilled with getting Guentzel since he's a smaller forward. Really good player and I really like his game but he seems to get hit hard a lot and the West has been known to be the more physical, grinding of the two conferences. Also have no clue about Sprong's game but I read your blog from time to time and you guys seem to love him.

It's also pretty likely that Doughty re-signs with the Kings so the Penguins or any other team would have to blow away the Kings with their offer. Kings are not looking to trade him at all.

 

[kilowatt]

Again, the issue is that any team buying Doughty views him as a one year gamble, while the Kings would only sell him at his full value. There’s no evidence that Doughty doesn’t want to stay in LA, and the Kings are pretty much willing to pay him whatever he wants.