Kings Article: Doughty Throws Down Gauntlet to LA Kings Management. But Was He Right?

[Legionnaire]

My position has little to do with prospect timelines and much more to do with salary cap and taking advantage of ELCs.
I don't really care about the ultra conservative overripening view of prospect development that many fans have. I disagree with your statements on it obviously. And you will find random examples of it to justify your view on it anyways. (But to use Kopitar as your first example is hilarious considering he was 19 his rookie year and already arguably the best player on his NHL team...)

The idea is that if you can put a good roster around a bunch of ELC players that will very likely exceed the values of their contracts then you certainly should. That's how teams win Stanley cups. The fact that we still have Doughty and Kopitar here is great because it fills arguably the toughest positions #1C and #1D. We also have a #1G in Petersen. That's a great start...

It's up to Blake to figure out the best way to take advantage of our asserts and cap space to put a good team together.

We absolutely should not "mortgage the future" or whatever other buzz words the people on here use when they even think about someone suggesting trying to win lol.

Some of you have to stop thinking so Binary where it's either tank or go all in....

I think it's smart and strategic to try to win now and I think we can do that without going absolutely all in.

Binary is about all there is. The vast majority of talent is found in the top 3. Otherwise you're in the "blackhole".

The unrestricted free agent market only nets you aging overpaid vets.

Trades are usually going to see the same as free agency because it is super rare for teams to trade young talent unless they are due for a new contract which they can't afford or don't want to pay. Take the Blues for example: They traded for ROR but lost Pietroangelo after their Cup win. The Kings aren't even close to the time to make that kind of trade.

So? If we start winning we are further from number one OA which is the best way to gain talent and maintain cost certaintity.

IMO the rebuild isn't over until we address the D. No team is giving up young talented D - especially after the RyJo - Jones trade.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Jim Fox likes to use the phrase about moves bringing you "closer to the playoffs but further from a Cup."

There's a whole lot of that going on in here.

 

[ibleedkings]

Kopitar didn't start in the NHL until he was 20 and the same with Malkin. Were those two poor prospects?

I don't understand this new attitude that some of you have developed. You know, the one where if a prospect doesn't excel at 18, 19 or even 20 they are busts. It makes no sense.

Most of us Kings fans have seen how rushing players can damage their development and nothing has changed since the 90's.

Brown struggled mightily in his first season at 18, and if it weren't for the lockout and his year in the A, he never would have found his offensive game and would have ended up nothing but a 3rd liner.

A good prospect, is a good prospect - even if it takes 5 years to develop like it did the Sedins (and so many other players)

Kinda nitpicking but Kopi was 19.

 

[Rusty Batch]

Binary is about all there is. The vast majority of talent is found in the top 3. Otherwise you're in the "blackhole".

The unrestricted free agent market only nets you aging overpaid vets.

Trades are usually going to see the same as free agency because it is super rare for teams to trade young talent unless they are due for a new contract which they can't afford or don't want to pay. Take the Blues for example: They traded for ROR but lost Pietroangelo after their Cup win. The Kings aren't even close to the time to make that kind of trade.

So? If we start winning we are further from number one OA which is the best way to gain talent and maintain cost certaintity.

IMO the rebuild isn't over until we address the D. No team is giving up young talented D - especially after the RyJo - Jones trade.

We can do nothing and we will still move closer to the playoffs... You think this team won't be getting better once we start replacing guys like Brown, Lizotte, AA, with Byfield Turcotte and Kaliyev, etc...

This team is getting better and your precious longshot lottery odds will get progressively longer.

 

[crassbonanza]

Jim Fox likes to use the phrase about moves bringing you "closer to the playoffs but further from a Cup."

There's a whole lot of that going on in here.

The only phrases that I've heard from Fox lately have been about wine.

 

[crassbonanza]

I'm personally happy that Doughty said what he did. Any other answer would have been seriously concerning. If Doughty didn't want the team to improve and was happy to suck for the duration of his career we end up back with Manhattan Beach retirement crew. It's up to Blake to make the right moves here, not for Doughty to accept losing.

 

[Legionnaire]

We can do nothing and we will still move closer to the playoffs... You think this team won't be getting better once we start replacing guys like Brown, Lizotte, AA, with Byfield Turcotte and Kaliyev, etc...

This team is getting better and your precious longshot lottery odds will get progressively longer.

Not with that D.


So on one hand we should trade them to improve, and the other is to wait and improve anyway. Either way, we'll see modest improvements with poor to average defense and goaltending.

If Blake were smart he would have traded Doughty and Kopitar when their values were higher. If he seriously looked at our prospect pool and the holes we had on the roster and thought he could turn things around in three years he has to be blind.

 

[tomd]

What's the betting line on who AEG sides with...Blake or Doughty?

 

[Steve Zissou]

The only phrases that I've heard from Fox lately have been about wine.

Actually it's been mostly Faust. It's become his schtick.

...only so long you can poke fun at yourself for not following The Kings the past decade but hockey as well.

 

[crassbonanza]

Actually it's been mostly Faust. It's become his schtick.

...only so long you can poke fun at yourself for not following The Kings the past decade but hockey as well.

I absolutely loved the Cats-Bolts game today, it honestly might have been my favorite game that I watched this season. Unfortunately Faust was calling the game and he was so out of his depth, it really was unfortunate. That was a signature game and he just ruined it.

 

[Reclamation Project]

If the 2012-2014 Kings were a fine bottle of five figure wine, this current roster is an opened King Cobra you found in an alley.

 

[crassbonanza]

If the 2012-2014 Kings were a fine bottle of five figure wine, this current roster is an opened King Cobra you found in an alley.

Man, king Cobra was fun though, this was more like a 40 of steel reserve

 

[Statto]

I'm personally happy that Doughty said what he did. Any other answer would have been seriously concerning. If Doughty didn't want the team to improve and was happy to suck for the duration of his career we end up back with Manhattan Beach retirement crew. It's up to Blake to make the right moves here, not for Doughty to accept losing.

Completely agree with not wanting Doughty to accept losing and I have no issue with what he said. However, Blake shouldn’t be building his strategy around that especially as the plan seems to be to add a LHD. I think everyone agrees Management, players and fans that the team has to move forward next year and be in the play-off hunt. The debate is about how aggressive we need/want to be in terms of how we do that.

I’m of the view that we need to be patient and take deliberate steps to ensure we are competitive for a sustained period. A big aggressive set of moves now won’t get us a cup, instead maybe a couple of short visits to the play-offs before we start retooling again.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Not with that D.


So on one hand we should trade them to improve, and the other is to wait and improve anyway. Either way, we'll see modest improvements with poor to average defense and goaltending.

If Blake were smart he would have traded Doughty and Kopitar when their values were higher. If he seriously looked at our prospect pool and the holes we had on the roster and thought he could turn things around in three years he has to be blind.

Name the good or likely time to trade Kopitar and Doughty. Either since 2014, or since 2017.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Completely agree with not wanting Doughty to accept losing and I have no issue with what he said. However, Blake shouldn’t be building his strategy around that especially as the plan seems to be to add a LHD. I think everyone agrees Management, players and fans that the team has to move forward next year and be in the play-off hunt. The debate is about how aggressive we need/want to be in terms of how we do that.

I’m of the view that we need to be patient and take deliberate steps to ensure we are competitive for a sustained period. A big aggressive set of moves now won’t get us a cup, instead maybe a couple of short visits to the play-offs before we start retooling again.

Sustained competitiveness might be tougher than winning a single Cup. Although sustained needs to be defined. Is it 3 years, 5 years, 10 years? DL barely got 5, and less than that as a real contender. And his plan was to be the 2000's Detroit.

 

[Bandit]

Gauntlet my ass…

 

[Kurrilino]

Well, without the vets, this season's centers would have been something like Vilardi-Kempe-JAD-Lizotte. We may have only finished slightly worse, but I'm not a fan of Vilardi getting his head bashed in all year by other teams' top players as well as the weight of expectations. Hell this forum rode the shit out of Gabe and Kempe and Lizotte in their reduced roles.

The signing of Lemieux would make more sense if he would be rolled with one of the youngsters to prevent that bashing.
Beside that, Villardi looked more than fine to me. His ability to make opponent players get out of position to open up room for our
wingers is next to none. Blake's job would be to get him a winger who can snipe the upper corner of the net.
This can only be done by trade since the Kings have nobody even remotely able to that beside Kaliev and Fagemo.
Both of them need some more seasoning in the minors though.

Byfield already looked great in his short stand with the big boys.
So repeat the process and pair him with a gritty protection player and a sniper and we will be set for the next 2 years.
During those 2 years focus on defense drafting.

By then Kaliev and Fagemo are ready and the rebuild should be over.
I don't see Kopitar or Doughty being critical to this process and they can be changed for something usefull in the future

 

[Fishhead]

Sustained competitiveness might be tougher than winning a single Cup. Although sustained needs to be defined. Is it 3 years, 5 years, 10 years? DL barely got 5, and less than that as a real contender. And his plan was to be the 2000's Detroit.

Yeah, I remember him talking about this culture passing the torch to the next and so on. I don't think he realized at the time that it is pretty much impossible to do that, as the only way to get over the hump nowadays is to trade assets to get what you need. Not only that, with the ease of video and information transfer now it's more and more difficult to get late round gems in the draft. I mean, all teams know about every potential drafted player, there isn't anyone hidden from anybody.

If you can get 5 years nowadays, that's pretty dang good. Colorado has been good for a few years now, and are now legit cup contenders. They already have to make tough decisions next year. They have very little cap space, yet: Landeskog is a UFA, Makar is RFA, and they don't have any goalies signed beyond this year. Saad is coming off the books but they'll have to replace his production. They have 4 other RFA's.

Not impossible, but a challenge. And they are one of the younger rosters in the league.

 

[bouncesonly]

Name the good or likely time to trade Kopitar and Doughty. Either since 2014, or since 2017.

If they traded Kopi/Doughty in 2014, hopefully they would have gotten a first in the 2015 Draft....hopefully a top 5 pick for a chance at: McDavid, Eichel, Strome, Marner, Hanafin (although Barzal, Chabot, Boeser, and Konecny were available later)....maybe a first in 2016 for: Matthews, Laine, Tkachuck, Keller, McAvoy, Chychrun.

I guess the Kings could have ended up as the Leafs of the West with Marner and Matthews.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Haha.

"Hi Phil. Yes I know we just won two Stanley Cups with a WCF sandwiched in between, but I'm just not feeling it--yes, I know you're getting record setting revenue, but things would be MUCH better in 2021 if we just...hello?"

 

[Sol]

A lot of strange takes I'm seeing here so far.

I get some of the concerns but if the Kings are trying to be competitive with the current core then they need to trade for a big player that has got NHL experience to keep the core happy. If the Kings dont care about competing with the current core then they should move the players who don't want to stick around. Either the Kings get some experience sooner rather than later, they will become a competitive team. Or they can offload players who dont want to be here from the core potentially, get much younger, and extend the competitive window by 3-4 years more.


You would have to be delusional to think that players like Kopitar/Doughty dont have massive sway in which path this team takes. If the Kings dont add and they suck again this next season, he's not going to stick around in my opinion. And I dont blame him.

 

[Legionnaire]

Name the good or likely time to trade Kopitar and Doughty. Either since 2014, or since 2017.

Right after the 2016 playoffs. It was pretty clear the Kings were no longer able to compete at that level.

 

[KINGS17]

Haha.

"Hi Phil. Yes I know we just won two Stanley Cups with a WCF sandwiched in between, but I'm just not feeling it--yes, I know you're getting record setting revenue, but things would be MUCH better in 2021 if we just...hello?"

This misrepresentation of those who were of the opinion a trade could have been made involving Kopitar or Doughty sometime after the 2016 playoffs is garbage.

To make believe the only time to have done it was immediately after winning the cup in 2014 is disingenuous.

 

[King'sPawn]

This misrepresentation of those who were of the opinion a trade could have been made involving Kopitar or Doughty sometime after the 2016 playoffs is garbage.

To make believe the only time to have done it was immediately after winning the cup in 2014 is disingenuous.

If they traded Kopi/Doughty in 2014, hopefully they would have gotten a first in the 2015 Draft....hopefully a top 5 pick for a chance at: McDavid, Eichel, Strome, Marner, Hanafin (although Barzal, Chabot, Boeser, and Konecny were available later)....maybe a first in 2016 for: Matthews, Laine, Tkachuck, Keller, McAvoy, Chychrun.

I guess the Kings could have ended up as the Leafs of the West with Marner and Matthews.

It's pretty plain what RJ was responding to, unless you're ignoring the poster.

 

[KINGS17]

It's pretty plain what RJ was responding to, unless you're ignoring the poster.

My bad. Sorry guys.