"Doughty is the best defenseman in the league" per McDavid

[MaxDummy]

The mere fact that Doughty can play 30 minutes of high level hockey in both ends is why he is the best in the game. And the fact that Subban can't, is why he doesn't get picked for Team Canada, and sees 3 other Dmen get ice in OT before the coaching staff even contemplates putting him out there.

But let's just keep ignoring these facts that don't fit the narrative of the fan club

Lol.. You get that I agree with you, right ?

"if he could play 30 minutes without being gassed" Subban can't , Doughty can, hence Doughty > Subban. In the 25 minutes that Subban does play, he's quite at the same level as Doughty. That's my point.


Olympic hockey from 4 years ago is quite irrelevant here. Doughty also is better than Subban 3on3 no question.

You're so defensive


Subban
"Yep. 25 minutes a game, special teams, hard matchups, controlling the ice. And I think that's his greatest quality, he's a chameleon and can mold himself to any game, any series, any situation. Need more offense? He's jumping. Need more defense? Hard match him against MacKinnon. It's all good."

Doughty

"Yep. 30 minutes a game, special teams, hard matchups, controlling the ice. And I think that's his greatest quality, he's a chameleon and can mold himself to any game, any series, any situation. Need more offense? He's jumping. Need more defense? Hard match him against MacKinnon. It's all good."

 

[Daisy Ridley]

Top 5 for sure

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

As guys age around the league and battle injuries... id go

Doughty/hedman top of the heap

Karlsson/burns/suter/subban next tier

Jones/carlsson knocking on the door

Weber/keith most likely to have comeback seasons

Those would be the 10 guys i feel most confident as my number 1 dman for next year

 

[The Macho King]

As a battle-hardened Sens fan in these discussions, I think it’s worth recognizing just how hard of deployment Doughty gets.

Sure a guy like Karlsson SOMETIMES gets the tough shut down assignment, but Doughty gets it every single night.

I don’t care what the analytic crowd says about quality competition, it is MUCH more difficult to perform in the environment Doughty plays in than the one Karlsson plays in.

It is a huge burden to bear and Doughty excels in doing it, and that’s incredible.

The critique about QoC isn't about the idea, but rather the statistic itself.

Moreover - for (most) of these top, two-way guys - they all do the heavy lifting. Hedman is out there against the top lines every night as well. Weber is too. Pietrangelo also takes the tough assignments.

The interesting thing about Doughty is he's never had a second pair that could take much of the heat off of him, though. Hedman never had until we got McDonagh, and his usage has changed a bit because of that (not out of effectiveness, but rather just with two #1D on the team there's more of an opportunity to maximize Hedman's offensive ability).

Basically, the long and short of that is for (most) of the top D in the league (guys like Burns and Karlsson are exceptions here), they all do the heavy lifting on both sides of the ice.

 

[The Macho King]

its too bad the NHL doesnt consult HFBoard polls for all its awards eh

TBF, he was also far and away ahead in the PHWA poll that was released mid-season, and in the NHL.com polls at the half and three quarter season (which I believe feature a few Norris voters).

 

[Sureves]

The critique about QoC isn't about the idea, but rather the statistic itself.

Moreover - for (most) of these top, two-way guys - they all do the heavy lifting. Hedman is out there against the top lines every night as well. Weber is too. Pietrangelo also takes the tough assignments.

The interesting thing about Doughty is he's never had a second pair that could take much of the heat off of him, though. Hedman never had until we got McDonagh, and his usage has changed a bit because of that (not out of effectiveness, but rather just with two #1D on the team there's more of an opportunity to maximize Hedman's offensive ability).

Basically, the long and short of that is for (most) of the top D in the league (guys like Burns and Karlsson are exceptions here), they all do the heavy lifting on both sides of the ice.

I don’t agree. I’ve looked at matchups quite a bit on left wing lock (albeit last year) and Doughty is in a class of his own on that front. Pieteangelo, Hedman, and Karlsson all saw pretty similar competition last year (Burns did not) but Doughty saw much tougher assignments.

 

[Sol]

Hedman won the poll of the norris and is the best dman this season.

That literally means nothing. Hedman has a great supporting cast. Doughty has been great through the highest of highs and lowest of lows.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The critique about QoC isn't about the idea, but rather the statistic itself.

Moreover - for (most) of these top, two-way guys - they all do the heavy lifting. Hedman is out there against the top lines every night as well. Weber is too. Pietrangelo also takes the tough assignments.

The interesting thing about Doughty is he's never had a second pair that could take much of the heat off of him, though. Hedman never had until we got McDonagh, and his usage has changed a bit because of that (not out of effectiveness, but rather just with two #1D on the team there's more of an opportunity to maximize Hedman's offensive ability).

Basically, the long and short of that is for (most) of the top D in the league (guys like Burns and Karlsson are exceptions here), they all do the heavy lifting on both sides of the ice.

I don’t agree. I’ve looked at matchups quite a bit on left wing lock (albeit last year) and Doughty is in a class of his own on that front. Pieteangelo, Hedman, and Karlsson all saw pretty similar competition last year (Burns did not) but Doughty saw much tougher assignments.

To be fair to Karlsson at least, and probably to some of these other guys as well, when Sureves and I were having these conversations, my thing was that once you reach a certain minutes threshold--probably, lets say, over 25--you can kind of throw matchups away because it's hard to 'shelter' someone when they're playing half the game.

I agree on Doughty's deployment, but EK's especially is harder than it may look at face value because it's just so many damn minutes if nothing else. There's a reason most top guys get cut off in the 22-24 min range.

However yeah, Drew gets hard matched to top competition nightly and then eats 4 PK minutes on top of it. It's pretty wild. especially when he's carrying around a new anchor-of-the-day seemingly weekly.

 

[teravaineSAROS]

when the general consensus of NHL players is that a particular player is the best, it's kind of hard to argue that.

No absolutely, the Doughty case is obvious he's amazing and it's not just McDavid saying it.

I'm speaking of how we generally value a players opinion on something pretending like they're not humans and their opinion in the moment is an objectively calculated statement with no momentum steering them towards impulsively saying a thing they might change their mind on later (like Gretzky).

Obviously an NHL player has played against the players so they have first-hand experience; but then theres factors like stylistic matchups, impulsive emotions etc making you state an uncalculated opinion just like all of us tend to do.

 

[Little Psycho]

To be fair to Karlsson at least, and probably to some of these other guys as well, when Sureves and I were having these conversations, my thing was that once you reach a certain minutes threshold--probably, lets say, over 25--you can kind of throw matchups away because it's hard to 'shelter' someone when they're playing half the game.

I agree on Doughty's deployment, but EK's especially is harder than it may look at face value because it's just so many damn minutes if nothing else. There's a reason most top guys get cut off in the 22-24 min range.

However yeah, Drew gets hard matched to top competition nightly and then eats 4 PK minutes on top of it. It's pretty wild. especially when he's carrying around a new anchor-of-the-day seemingly weekly.

Looks like Gravel is his new partner tommorow. Babysitter Drew to the rescue. It has been a frustrating season with the rotation of dmen.

 

[MOGlLNY]

Yeah it was. Since when did any of Gretzkys hardware and point total make his statements sensible or right?

Why are you using Gretzky (a retired player who hasn't gone head to head versus the players he's talking about) as the bar for McDavid who actively plays in the same division as Doughty? Makes no sense, but ok pal whatever allows you to sleep at night.

 

[JAS 39 Gripen]

Why are you using Gretzky (a retired player who hasn't gone head to head versus the players he's talking about) as the bar for McDavid who actively plays in the same division as Doughty? Makes no sense, but ok pal whatever allows you to sleep at night.

Yes is does. It shows that just b/c youre good at hockey, it dosnt mean you know jack shit. Just like ”He (Random player whos hot for the week) is the best player Ive ever seen”-Gretzky tosses around superlativs, it looks like McDavid does to

 

[Iceman]

You're right, those 2 games vs Hedman vs 4 against Doughty really tilted his view, I mean, it's not like McDavid knows who he plays against lol,

Well, he is kind of right. A significant amount of players who get the chance to applaude a player of a different team they will pick west players always if they are west players themselves and east players always pick east players.

 

[MOGlLNY]

Yes is does. It shows that just b/c youre good at hockey, it dosnt mean you know jack ****. Just like ”He (Random player whos hot for the week) is the best player Ive ever seen”-Gretzky tosses around superlativs, it looks like McDavid does to

Yes, thank you for clarifying to us all that you know the game better than Connor McDavid. McDavid scoring 100+ points in back to back seasons despite knowing “jack shit” about hockey is really impressive. Holy hell.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

McDavid was just trying to get Doughty to soften up.

 

[jj cale]

Doughty would be my first pick for a defenseman on my team, best all around d-man in the game imo.

 

[Little Psycho]

Yes, thank you for clarifying to us all that you know the game better than Connor McDavid. McDavid scoring 100+ points in back to back seasons despite knowing “jack ****” about hockey is really impressive. Holy hell.

When it comes to the game, he's one of the best at it but when it comes to complementing another player "what the f*** does he know? He plays on the west coast!"

 

[Rodgerwilco]

Yes, thank you for clarifying to us all that you know the game better than Connor McDavid. McDavid scoring 100+ points in back to back seasons despite knowing “jack ****” about hockey is really impressive. Holy hell.

Jeez man, you're reading to respond and not reading to comprehend....

All he said was that McDavid (and Gretzky... and a LOT of guys) throw around superlatives like "best... greatest...toughest...etc." like it's nothing... Gretzky is a good example because most people consider him untouchable, however he's said things like "Kyle Turris has the best vision of any player in the NHL".

Gretzky is very well known for heaping huge amounts of praise onto various players. He loves to say certain guys are "the best since *insert all-time great*"... He's also said on multiple occasions that certain players were going to break his records... I think he said it about Tavares once, he's said it about McDavid.

If you didn't know this about Gretzky, that's on you, but you look like kind a jerk poo-poo'ing on this guy about something that he's actually correct about...

 

[Osprey]

Looks like Gravel is his new partner tommorow. Babysitter Drew to the rescue. It has been a frustrating season with the rotation of dmen.

I wanted Phaneuf to be his partner from the moment that the trade happened, but, even with both of Doughty's usual partners getting injured, we still don't get that pairing. What's it going to take? I fully realize that it may be smarter to separate them now in order to have them both babysit a green player, but I'd also like to see them try rolling the dice by putting the two horses together, giving them half the game and hoping that the rest can do OK with the other half (maybe give Martinez a green player on the 2nd pairing and Folin a green player on the 3rd).

Jeez man, you're reading to respond and not reading to comprehend....

Ooh, I like that. I should write that down.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I mean, I love that when it's Doughty winning the GM poll, the coaches poll, and McDavid's accolades, it's "What the f*** do they know?" When it's the Norris, "who cares? It's a joke now anyway." But because reasons, the NHLPA poll is reliable. Wonder why

 

[DDRhockey]

That literally means nothing. Hedman has a great supporting cast. Doughty has been great through the highest of highs and lowest of lows.

Lol doughty has kopitar who is superb defensively.

Doughty might deserve norris this year unlike in 2016 though

 

[Little Psycho]

I wanted Phaneuf to be his partner from the moment that the trade happened, but, even with both of Doughty's usual partners getting injured, we still don't get that pairing. What's it going to take? I fully realize that it may be smarter to separate them now in order to have them both babysit a green player, but I'd also like to see them try rolling the dice by putting the two horses put together, giving them half the game and hoping that the rest can do OK with the other half (maybe give Martinez a green player on the 2nd pairing and Folin a green player on the 3rd).



Ooh, I like that. I should write that down.

Phaneuf and Doughty make hell of a pairing but like you said the other players need to be babysat. If we had a more consistent experienced core group I would like to see them together for half of the game but since we don't it'll be too risky. I guess we'll see those two in desperate situations. :/

 

[Sol]

Lol doughty has kopitar who is superb defensively.

Doughty might deserve norris this year unlike in 2016 though

Doughty deserved it in 2015. When Hedman accomplishes something let me know tho.
And McDonagh is a slouch... And let me guess Tampa has awful defense and Kucherov / Stamkos are slouches as well. It must be so difficult for Hedman to put up points in such a offensively weak team. How does he do it? Poor guy. I mean you can make an argument that it's easy for him to get points on such a talented high powered team, but you're right Tampa is just a bottom 3 team

 

[DDRhockey]

Doughty deserved it in 2015. When Hedman accomplishes something let me know tho.
And McDonagh is a slouch... And let me guess Tampa has awful defense and Kucherov / Stamkos are slouches as well. It must be so difficult for Hedman to put up points in such a offensively weak team. How does he do it? Poor guy. I mean you can make an argument that it's easy for him to get points on such a talented high powered team, but you're right Tampa is just a bottom 3 team

Hedman has been stellar for years and is the engine that runs tampa

 

[Sol]

Hedman has been stellar for years and is the engine that runs tampa

I'm sure. If he's the engine running Tampa, Tampa should retool and get some help because that engine sure hasn't accomplished anything yet. Poor guy. All alone.