Rumor: Doug Maclean (HC): Unnamed NHL Coach says: "The Leafs are going to challenge"

[thewave]

If goaltending is above average and Zaitsev steps into the top four without any major stumbles we're a playoff team

If you really break it down it's close. It's going to be how they are in their own end that determines this outcome. That and tending TBH. Zaitsev and Carrick are certainly part of the key to making it into the PO's. Carrick is slick with a nice shot and looks damn top 4ish to me. Zaitsev looks top 4ish in the worlds so, he should be a go as well. Now if those secondary guys and vets play RESPONSIBLE hockey, I definitely see us in the race.

 

[WilliamNylander]

If you really break it down it's close. It's going to be how they are in their own end that determines this outcome. That and tending TBH. Zaitsev and Carrick are certainly part of the key to making it into the PO's. Carrick is slick with a nice shot and looks damn top 4ish to me. Zaitsev looks top 4ish in the worlds so, he should be a go as well. Now if those secondary guys and vets play RESPONSIBLE hockey, I definitely see us in the race.

You're right on the money here. We definitely need a lot of things to go as planned...but its also not crazy to think we'll be in the hunt for a wildcard spot.

Carrick and Zaitsev will have to carry the right side for most of the year but they have the potential to do it.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Really? This is the first I've heard of this. You make it sound like Vancouver people hating Toronto. You really think Maclean being from PEI matters? I can't even remember anyone from Toronto ever mentioning the East coast.

Maclean comes across as a real jerk. But did you know he drafted Rick Nash? I think I heard him mention that before...

Pointing out how Maclean looked like a fool for joining Balsillie is nasty?

Posting that you're hoping that people's careers are destroyed is just nasty and mean spirited. Period.

Basically the equivalent of hoping that a player gets injured.

 

[showtime8]

You're right on the money here. We definitely need a lot of things to go as planned...but its also not crazy to think we'll be in the hunt for a wildcard spot.

Carrick and Zaitsev will have to carry the right side for most of the year but they have the potential to do it.

Not disputing that they don't have the potential to do it, but you're asking 2 players with less than 1 full season combined in the NHL to carry that weight.

While they might be able to do it for a stretch of games, to ask them to do it for a full season is playing with fire.

 

[ForSpareParts*]

Not disputing that they don't have the potential to do it, but you're asking 2 players with less than 1 full season combined in the NHL to carry that weight.

While they might be able to do it for a stretch of games, to ask them to do it for a full season is playing with fire.

"Playing with fire" is a bit much wouldn't you say? It's only a hockey game. They are also not defending champs either.

 

[saltming]

Not disputing that they don't have the potential to do it, but you're asking 2 players with less than 1 full season combined in the NHL to carry that weight.

While they might be able to do it for a stretch of games, to ask them to do it for a full season is playing with fire.

Yes they have little nhl experience but Carrick has what, 4 years pro experience now? Z has 7 years in the KHL!
Those years count for something. Those guys are pros just not NHL tested.

 

[showtime8]

"Playing with fire" is a bit much wouldn't you say? It's only a hockey game. They are also not defending champs either.

Just a figure of speech. Just like going to war, etc.

They aren't actually going to be going to war or playing with fire. We should know the differences, right?

 

[LeafFever]

Posting that you're hoping that people's careers are destroyed is just nasty and mean spirited. Period.

Basically the equivalent of hoping that a player gets injured.

That isn't me "Hoping", it's fact. Maclean destroyed any future employment opportunities with an NHL team. It was 100% his decision. So how is that mean spirited? It's not like I'm wishing an injury on a player. I'm commenting on a very stupid decision he made.

 

[showtime8]

Yes they have little nhl experience but Carrick has what, 4 years pro experience now? Z has 7 years in the KHL!
Those years count for something. Those guys are pros just not NHL tested.

The years in the AHL aren't the same as experience in the NHL. Again, I'm not trying to tear apart their potential. I can see both of those guys playing in the top 4 in their careers.

But throwing them out there and expecting them to handle it seems pretty risky in my mind. I mean, the teams not going to be very good this year and it's not likely they have a lot of support around them either.

 

[saltming]

The years in the AHL aren't the same as experience in the NHL. Again, I'm not trying to tear apart their potential. I can see both of those guys playing in the top 4 in their careers.

But throwing them out there and expecting them to handle it seems pretty risky in my mind. I mean, the teams not going to be very good this year and it's not likely they have a lot of support around them either.

Oh I agree that their pro years are not nhl years. I'm saying that they should be ready to 'step in and make a considerable contribution'.

It like all this talk about over ripening players and not bringing them up until they are ready; these 2 are ready imo.

Judging from the small sample size with Carrick in the nhl and the miniscule sample of Zaistev on nhl ice, combined with the amount of pro years they have, I think they are cooked enough to step in at a high level.

Add into Zaitsev case what Lou said about him feeling Z is capable of stepping into the top 4 and I just feel he will be impressive.

Carrick I am less certain but still think he is ready.

 

[showtime8]

Oh I agree that their pro years are not nhl years. I'm saying that they should be ready to 'step in and make a considerable contribution'.

It like all this talk about over ripening players and not bringing them up until they are ready; these 2 are ready imo.

Judging from the small sample size with Carrick in the nhl and the miniscule sample of Zaistev on nhl ice, combined with the amount of pro years they have, I think they are cooked enough to step in at a high level.

Add into Zaitsev case what Lou said about him feeling Z is capable of stepping into the top 4 and I just feel he will be impressive.

Carrick I am less certain but still think he is ready.

That's fair.

So you have Gardiner & Zaitsev playing together? And then have Carrick with Hunwick on the bottom pairing?

Or how would you ideally set up the pairings?

To me, I don't think there's an ideal pairing that the Leafs could come up with at the moment. If Gardiner/Zaitsev & Carrick/Hunwick are together, that leaves Marincin and Rielly together. Again, not the ideal partner for Rielly, but not a ton of options either.

 

[RoadWarrior]

That isn't me "Hoping", it's fact. Maclean destroyed any future employment opportunities with an NHL team. It was 100% his decision. So how is that mean spirited? It's not like I'm wishing an injury on a player. I'm commenting on a very stupid decision he made.

I really hate Doug Maclean...... loved the time McCowan roasted him for doing a 180 and joining the fantasy Hamilton team with Balsillie....ruined any chance of ever getting NHL employment again.

It's very tough walking this back dude and no it didn't "ruin any chance" with every NHL team. Only the Leafs and Sabres.

What hurt him was his poor performance as GM in Columbus although to be fair his team budget (including scouting) was peanuts.

 

[saltming]

That's fair.

So you have Gardiner & Zaitsev playing together? And then have Carrick with Hunwick on the bottom pairing?

Or how would you ideally set up the pairings?

To me, I don't think there's an ideal pairing that the Leafs could come up with at the moment. If Gardiner/Zaitsev & Carrick/Hunwick are together, that leaves Marincin and Rielly together. Again, not the ideal partner for Rielly, but not a ton of options either.

I would have to wait to see what kind of chemistry develops between the D men.

Last year I though Carrick looked good with Gardiner and would like to see some of that in the preseason as well as Rielly Z pairing.

So:
Rielly Zaistev
Gardiner Carrick

2nd option
Rielly Marincin
Gardiner Zaitsev

3rd option
Rielly Zaitsev
Gardiner Marincin

See how those pairings gel and go from there.

Personally I think Rielly and Z will find it. Morgan has shown strong development in his 2 way game and Z is already very strong in his 2 way game.

As for the 2nd pairing, I like both Carrick or Marincin with Jake. Many here are not sold on Marincin but I am. Time will tell though.

As a final note. My thoughts on our defense is that the D is no longer an island that stands on its own like when Carlyle wad here. This team plays team defense and that makes all the parts of it stronger. So, when I see our defense getting better a large part is because it is team defense now and not just those 6 guys on the blue line.

 

[WilliamNylander]

That's fair.

So you have Gardiner & Zaitsev playing together? And then have Carrick with Hunwick on the bottom pairing?

Or how would you ideally set up the pairings?

To me, I don't think there's an ideal pairing that the Leafs could come up with at the moment. If Gardiner/Zaitsev & Carrick/Hunwick are together, that leaves Marincin and Rielly together. Again, not the ideal partner for Rielly, but not a ton of options either.

Seems like our top pair will be Rielly-Zaitsev right now

 

[LeafFever]

It's very tough walking this back dude and no it didn't "ruin any chance" with every NHL team. Only the Leafs and Sabres.

What hurt him was his poor performance as GM in Columbus although to be fair his team budget (including scouting) was peanuts.

No, it hurt his chance with any team. He took a pretend job with a guy the entire NHL hated and was seen as breaking the rules.

 

[Ropesman]

I am curious as to what some of you feel is the best outcome for future sustainability for this team. Do you think it is a better scenario for this team if we do make a serious push for the playoffs or for us to finish somewhere around a 4-8 draft pick?

Personally I think the better option is to draft 4-8. A winning season would be great for the kids and their development but I think we are still one blue chipper on the blue line away from where we need to be. I want this team to be a playoff team and stay a playoff team for many years.

Just curious for some other peoples outlook on this situation.

 

[saltming]

I am curious as to what some of you feel is the best outcome for future sustainability for this team. Do you think it is a better scenario for this team if we do make a serious push for the playoffs or for us to finish somewhere around a 4-8 draft pick?

Personally I think the better option is to draft 4-8. A winning season would be great for the kids and their development but I think we are still one blue chipper on the blue line away from where we need to be. I want this team to be a playoff team and stay a playoff team for many years.

Just curious for some other peoples outlook on this situation.

I'm in the win mode. Drafting is still a gamble and we already have promising pieces on the blue line. Also defensive blue chip pieces have a better chance of being found later in the draft than high end forwards.

 

[WilliamNylander]

I am curious as to what some of you feel is the best outcome for future sustainability for this team. Do you think it is a better scenario for this team if we do make a serious push for the playoffs or for us to finish somewhere around a 4-8 draft pick?

Personally I think the better option is to draft 4-8. A winning season would be great for the kids and their development but I think we are still one blue chipper on the blue line away from where we need to be. I want this team to be a playoff team and stay a playoff team for many years.

Just curious for some other peoples outlook on this situation.

How much better is a d-man drafted at 8 than at 15? Especially when you factor in the fact that the rest of our kids grow a lot more by winning and being in tight games as opposed to getting blown out every night. Good D is often found in the late first and 2nd round anyways, we have the elite forwards that usually dominate the top of the draft already.

I'd rather miss the playoffs by 1 game than tank again because we're not bad enough to be bottom 5 anymore.

 

[thewave]

I am curious as to what some of you feel is the best outcome for future sustainability for this team. Do you think it is a better scenario for this team if we do make a serious push for the playoffs or for us to finish somewhere around a 4-8 draft pick?

Personally I think the better option is to draft 4-8. A winning season would be great for the kids and their development but I think we are still one blue chipper on the blue line away from where we need to be. I want this team to be a playoff team and stay a playoff team for many years.

Just curious for some other peoples outlook on this situation.

Looks good. We have a lot of players with League wide value and that's really all you need to set the stage. The reason Toronto has sucked for so long is because they would establish a valuable team and then just let it fall apart and squander all the value. More recently we lost an entire top 6 line worth of players for nothing. KGM line. Like the players or not but that's 3 years of drafting gone down the tubes. I said at the time losing those players set us back 3 years. I was right of course and we are just lucky that we ended up tanking while not tanking during that time (See: Rielly).

I think they just need to get through this season and shuffle the deck a bit with the expiring contracts. I am sure management will be much more at ease after this season and the Vegas crap is over.

 

[RoadWarrior]

No, it hurt his chance with any team. He took a pretend job with a guy the entire NHL hated and was seen as breaking the rules.

There's that "hated" word again. The bottom line is that you can't walk back what you posted earlier about "hating" Maclean and wishing him the worst.

Taking a "pretend job" with a controversial potential owner only hurt him with the teams actively fighting against expansion in the golden horseshoe.

The owners around the league are not exactly unified in their beliefs and quite frankly not that emotional when it comes to business. I have no doubt that he could be hired again. North America is a big place.

Getting back to the original idea of this thread I think that if the young leafs (aka Matthews, Rielly, Zaitsev, Nylander and Marner) stay healthy and Andersen holds the fort in goal of course they could challenge for the playoffs. They have the talent and coaching. Now they just need some experience.

 

[Menzinger]

I am curious as to what some of you feel is the best outcome for future sustainability for this team. Do you think it is a better scenario for this team if we do make a serious push for the playoffs or for us to finish somewhere around a 4-8 draft pick?

Personally I think the better option is to draft 4-8. A winning season would be great for the kids and their development but I think we are still one blue chipper on the blue line away from where we need to be. I want this team to be a playoff team and stay a playoff team for many years.

Just curious for some other peoples outlook on this situation.

While I don't think a playoff off push will happen myself:

Having a young team be competitive for an entire season is obviously the better indicator of success in future. A bottom 5 finish will just be an indicator of team stagnation - nothing positive there other than the draft pick prize.

Realistically I think this team finishes in the 8-12th last range.

 

[NarcoPolo]

with supposedly a much better goaltender, a slightly better / more experienced defense, and the addition of Matthews, and other skilled players like Marner and Nylander, i think it could be possible. Wouldnt bank on it though.

 

[Buds17]

I'd never say no to playoffs, but I'd expect the draft 4-8 of the two scenarios. I'd welcome an eventual Detroit-like run of playoff appearances for us, but I find there's a team that surprises in a good way (and another in a bad way) most seasons.

In an ideal outlook, we'd be making the playoffs AND drafting well. Certainly need to be doing at least one to hope to have success.

 

[BlueBaron]

I am curious as to what some of you feel is the best outcome for future sustainability for this team. Do you think it is a better scenario for this team if we do make a serious push for the playoffs or for us to finish somewhere around a 4-8 draft pick?

Personally I think the better option is to draft 4-8. A winning season would be great for the kids and their development but I think we are still one blue chipper on the blue line away from where we need to be. I want this team to be a playoff team and stay a playoff team for many years.

Just curious for some other peoples outlook on this situation.

I think the best case scenario for the organization as a whole would be for us to see a decent rise in the standings, say 5 or 6 spots, because all our young guys have great seasons and improved grasp of the system. Then we win the lottery and draft the best defenseman, hopefully right handed.

If I had to choose between a high pick and development of the kids I would choose the development. I do not want to see any of the big three have any major setbacks and I want them to be winners. I would hate to go through what Edmonton has and our depth at D and G is not where I would like it to be.

That said all we would need is for one of our extra forward prospects to massively over achieve and maybe we could trade for that defenseman.

A whole season of being losers and in last place would not be that good for the kids confidence or development.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Teams do compete and make the playoffs with obvious holes in their roster. Detroit last season had something like:

Kronwall-Dekeyser
Green-Quincey
Ericsson-Smith

as their blueline. Kronwall isn't Kronwall from 2-3 years ago, Green isn't the old Green either. That's a blueline IMO that really needs a legit #1 D or at minimum another legit top 3 dman, and yet they made it into the playoffs. And it's not like their forward group had any superstars either.

I don't think we NEED to add another top 3 D to be a playoff team, but I do think Rielly needs to show some progression, and Zaitsev needs to be a legit top 4 guy.

While I agree that flawed teams can make the play-offs, it is typically behind a goalie playing out of his mind, which Mrazek did for the first 60 games of last year.

Just seems like everyone expects Babcock to get a bunch of rookies to perform over their heads like he did with a bunch of recycled vets last year. Not saying that it can't happen, but kust seems unlikely.