Proposal: Don't Rent....Buy the final core piece.

[ErnieLeafs]

You mean, you aren't high on a guy who you've barely ever seen play before, who's having a very good year with the Marlies, and is being projected to be a pretty high end player?

Watched him plenty with the Marlies, and in international tournaments. I think he tops out as 3/4, and if the illusion of him potentially being a 1/2 can help entice a team to give up a piece that helps this team over the top, I'm all for it

 

[ToneDog]

Find upgrades for one or all of Polak, Bozak and Leo at the TDL. Worry about core pieces in the offseason unless cost for OEL or McDonagh is reasonable.

 

[MapleLeafs9]

Would you guys do:

Andreas Johnsson
Timothy Liljegren
Connor Carrick
2018 1st round pick
2019 1st round pick

for

Erik Karlsson (UFA July 2019, though he would possibly re-sign)

? Ottawa should just be looking towards rebuilding now, and we’d have to pay a lot to get Karlsson. He’s that elite RD we desperately need.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Tanev would be an ok addition right now.

NO, why spend assets on a guy you know is going to miss a huge chunk of the year, and you know this because he does, every single year.

Tanev might be good but it means nothing if he's always missing huge chunks of the year.

 

[zeke]

1) Because this team isn't a contender. Yet.

2) Because this team's winning window isn't now. There's still a lot of natural evolution this team has to go through. They aren't close to the top teams in the league IMO.

3) Defensively this team is still a mess. It's not "one big piece" away from being fixed. It's issues run deeper than it's blueline

Team is 7th in the league, 6th in goal differential. They're above average in goals against.

Adding one major piece would make them even better in all those areas.

How good exactly do they have to be before they're contenders?

 

[Liminality]

Now is not the time to buy big.

It's crazy that this fanbase, who has experienced years of impatience that has led to mediocrity, is choosing not to be patient again.

Don't buy big. Smaller pieces for fringe players? Sure.

But the time to strike big isn't now.

I think there's a couple different roads they could take which are entirely viable.

Buying another core piece allows us to abuse the ELC's of our top players right now. We could also let them grow, wait a couple of years, have their contracts solidified and just build around them while we're continuing the process.

When Chicago won their first cup in a long time in 2010, they had both Kane and Toews on their just signed contracts of 6.3m a year. That set them up for another two cups in 2013, 2015.
When the Penguins won their cup in 2009, they had Crosby just signed to his 8.7m contract and Malkin was on his ELC still I think. They lost in the finals in 2008 against Detroit while they were still on their ELC's though.
When LA won it in 2012, they had Kopitar on his 6.8m contract, Doughty just signed his 7m a year contract and Quick with his 1.2m contract.

Personally I think they can do both if they manage their contracts and cap hits properly. Grab contracts to use while our top players are on ELC's, have those contracts expire, give the top players new contracts and build around them completely.

 

[Tak7]

Team is 7th in the league, 6th in goal differential. They're above average in goals against.

Adding one major piece would make them even better in all those areas.

How good exactly do they have to be before they're contenders?

Still below average defensively, and not a great possession team. Not one major piece away from being a contender.

How good do they have to be? Precisely how good they will be in 1 or 2 years after some more natural evolution, growth, and experience

 

[thewave]

Team is 7th in the league, 6th in goal differential. They're above average in goals against.

When will they be good enough to go for it?

We have multiple upgrades from within.

Dermott
Holl (possibly)
Nylander to C for Bozak

A start would be to immediately put Nylander to C and trade Bozak tonight. See how he does with his own line and Kapanen @ 1st line with Matthews.

 

[Buds17]

Can't argue with the appeal of adding any of those D-men, though there are potential question marks in the form of McDonagh (right side D as a whole might still be a concern considering trade cost), Weber's contract/being on a divisional rival and Johnson's injury history.

I recognize giving up the 1st is likely necessary and non-negotiable for any worthwhile add. I wouldn't want to part with Liljegren though. Fell considerably in his draft year, but he represents a valued position (RHD) that the team and organization doesn't have enough of, perhaps even with him working out well enough. Would rather dip into the forward depth.

Don't know if we have the need, desire or depth for the big move. Might have to make a lesser move and/or look to UFA in the offseason.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Would you guys do:

Andreas Johnsson
Timothy Liljegren
Connor Carrick
2018 1st round pick
2019 1st round pick

for

Erik Karlsson (UFA July 2019, though he would possibly re-sign)

? Ottawa should just be looking towards rebuilding now, and we’d have to pay a lot to get Karlsson. He’s that elite RD we desperately need.

2 years removed from the Last place finish the Leafs raid the cupboard for a 28-year-old defenseman.... Maybe we can trade our 2020 1st, 2nd and 2021 first for Boeser as well!

Although now that I think about it, Karlsson and Boeser would make us quite the team!

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Still below average defensively, and not a great possession team. Not one major piece away from being a contender.

How good do they have to be? Precisely how good they will be in 1 or 2 years after some more natural evolution, growth, and experience

You're arbitrarily appointing a timeline based on unquantifiable factors. Sounds more like "muh rebuild!!!!!" Than anything.

Enough loserblood mentality. We're not getting a 1/2D without paying for it. We might as well rip off the bandaid if we can, reasonably.

 

[zeke]

Still below average defensively, and not a great possession team. Not one major piece away from being a contender.

How good do they have to be? Precisely how good they will be in 1 or 2 years after some more natural evolution, growth, and experience

they're 13th in goals against/gm, 3 goals away from 7th.

Now add a legit top pair defensive presense, and they'll be even better. At least top-10, maybe top-5.

 

[Tak7]

they're 13th in goals against/gm, 3 goals away from 7th.

Now add a legit top pair defensive presense, and they'll be even better. At least top-10, maybe top-5.

Because Freddie has had a career year, not because they are good defensively.

They still have puck possesion / play driving issues.

 

[Liminality]

You're arbitrarily appointing a timeline based on unquantifiable factors. Sounds more like "muh rebuild!!!!!" Than anything.

Enough loserblood mentality. We're not getting a 1/2D without paying for it. We might as well rip off the bandaid if we can, reasonably.

I think the main point that zeke is making is that we should do it only if it makes sense for the long term. This isn't a rental we're talking about, we should be going after a core piece that's a part of this rebuilding.

That lets us compete now and in the future. Take advantage of the quality of players we have.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Because those of us that have, have seen him play pretty darn well. Confident, poised, driving play.

okay..
but that doesn't mean that Ernie has not seen Lily play a lot. it just means he's not as high as you are.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

We have multiple upgrades from within.

Dermott
Holl (possibly)
Nylander to C for Bozak

A start would be to immediately put Nylander to C and trade Bozak tonight. See how he does with his own line and Kapanen @ 1st line with Matthews.

I personally would like to see Kappy with Nylander. Babcock can turn Hyman-Matthews-Brown into a checking line.

Next season

Hyman-Matthews-Marner
Johnsson-Nyander-Kapanen
Marleau-Kadri-Brown
4th line


Side note everyone is now ready to give up a 1st + for a shiny new defenseman. If JVR, Bozak and Komarov are gone this season why would you not trade them now get a 1st,2nd and a prospect minimum and then flip them for the shiny the savior D man everyone is talking about?

2 first a second and a prospect should be enough to get a deal done no? We see what we have this year without our UFA's/see what we have in guys like Leivo, Johnsson, Sosh etc. and then we add a big name D man.

 

[Tak7]

You're arbitrarily appointing a timeline based on unquantifiable factors. Sounds more like "muh rebuild!!!!!" Than anything.

Enough loserblood mentality. We're not getting a 1/2D without paying for it. We might as well rip off the bandaid if we can, reasonably.

Then pay for it.

Later.

Once Dermott is a reputable NHL asset with trade value, or once Lilgegren is a repuable NHL asset with trade value.

It's laughable that a year and a half of some winning hockey, with some depth, and everyone thinks this team is someone one move away from being a contender?

Give yourself a reality check.

When a pretty meh Washington Capitals team turned it on last season, the Leafs couldn't live with them. Especially in game 6. And there's several teams that are far better than the Capitals this season.

But you want us to believe the Leafs are just one piece away?

Calm yourself before you hurt yourself

 

[MapleLeafs9]

2 years removed from the Last place finish the Leafs raid the cupboard for a 28-year-old defenseman.... Maybe we can trade our 2020 1st, 2nd and 2021 first for Boeser as well!

Although now that I think about it, Karlsson and Boeser would make us quite the team!

A 28 year old elite defenceman. And lol, you make it sound like Karlsson is an old man. He’ll still be great for a looooong time. You gotta pay to get these kinds of players.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

I think the main point that zeke is making is that we should do it only if it makes sense for the long term. This isn't a rental we're talking about, we should be going after a core piece that's a part of this rebuilding.

That lets us compete now and in the future. Take advantage of the quality of players we have.

I'm advocating for the same thing zeke is.

 

[Tall Morty]

We're fifth in the East in GA, with 3rd within reach (Columbus has allowed 6 less goals, but has played 3 less games. And we play them Wednesday.)

Not bad considering I keep hearing that we're a tire fire defensively.

 

[thewave]

I think the main point that zeke is making is that we should do it only if it makes sense for the long term. This isn't a rental we're talking about, we should be going after a core piece that's a part of this rebuilding.

That lets us compete now and in the future. Take advantage of the quality of players we have.

We are keeping our UFAs and that makes 0 sense long term. If I could convert my UFA into say 1st 2nd 2nd 3rd 4th and then use that plus a pick of my own to get someone like EK? Sure go for it right now, just do it.

Just to be clear the above represents. JVR Bozak Polak Moore Martin Leivo Sosh in any combination to get what it takes to get a STAR players.

 

[Tak7]

okay..
but that doesn't mean that Ernie has not seen Lily play a lot. it just means he's not as high as you are.

A kid who was projected to go top 5 in the draft last season, until his health became an issue, has only played 25 games with the Marlies this year due to injury.

"Not being high on him" comes from a place of bias, instead of reasonable thought and common sense.

 

[zeke]

2 years removed from the Last place finish the Leafs raid the cupboard for a 28-year-old defenseman.... Maybe we can trade our 2020 1st, 2nd and 2021 first for Boeser as well!

Although now that I think about it, Karlsson and Boeser would make us quite the team!

A couple years removed from a last place finish and the Pens raided the cupboard for the likes of Kunitz, Guerin, and recchi.

A couple years removed from a last place finish and the hawks raided the cupboard for the likes of Hossa.

A couple years removed from a last place finish and the Kings raided the cupboard for the likes of Carter, Richards.

 

[Sypher04]

1) Because this team isn't a contender. Yet.

2) Because this team's winning window isn't now. There's still a lot of natural evolution this team has to go through. They aren't close to the top teams in the league IMO.

3) Defensively this team is still a mess. It's not "one big piece" away from being fixed. It's issues run deeper than it's blueline

4) You have to pay the kids big money over the next 2 summers. Adding money now doesn't make a whole lot of sense, especially now that Marleau has been signed over that period, to go with Zaitsev, Rielly, Anderson, and Naz locked up during that period.

We will struggle to have as much depth after Matthews, Marner and Nylander extensions kick as we do right now.

I don't think we will or should sell the farm to make it happen but the time to load up and take our swing is absolutely now.

 

[indigobuffalo]

Liljegren is going to be the next Karlsson.

It’s just about timing.

We just need a rental.

 

[zeke]

Because Freddie has had a career year, not because they are good defensively.

They still have puck possesion / play driving issues.

Almost all of the top teams are getting similar or better goaltending than the Leafs are.