Speculation: Don Cherry spot on again: Orr or McLaren should have been there right from the start

[DD03]

This team will never be built like that again. It's 4 lines, 6 d, who can all skate and play with skill. That's what the team is going to be built like going forward. How does Tampa survive without men of honor like Orr on their team? They just win by being more skilled. Ridiculous thread.

You ever heard of Brian Boyle? Or even Cedric Paquette? Players like that make it so your skilled players play more relaxed.

 

[Snow Dog]

I think most of the players that can play as well as fight are taken.At least the ones worth having.

 

[Pookie]

oh yes. then totally Orr is the bestest player that ever bested in the NHL

Not the bestest. But according to CF%, Orr and McLaren were better contributors than Jay McClement.

I am learning from the Analytics crowd. Orr and McLaren put those numbers up while playing with McClement. Imagine if they had a better Center???

Oh and who would Corsi suggest you want on the ice when trailing by 2? Not Kulemin. Not Holland or Raymond or Phaneuf or Gunnarson or Gleason or Smithson. You could choose one of Lupul or McLaren since their CF% was better than all of those but tied with each other.

Geez Corsi is fun. Who knew?

 

[Menzinger]

You could take about 5 seconds and look at Orr's usage and realize his possession numbers aren't a great sample size to draw major conclusions from.

 

[Pookie]

You could take about 5 seconds and look at Orr's usage and realize his possession numbers aren't a great sample size to draw major conclusions from.

I am clearly being sarcastic

But small sample sizes are used in support of Corsi when the outcome of a playoff series is in line with what Corsi suggests should happen. If the outcome is opposite, as it usually is, then it is dismissed based on small sample size.

Is that why you are dismissing McLaren? Because it doesn't look like it should in some of those fancy columns?

 

[The Legend]

Love Grapes. He's wrong about this.

The concept of an enforcer who can't play hockey is actually relatively new. Bob Probert - considered the standard bearer - had a 5 year run of 16, 20 14, 7, 19 goals. Colton Orr and Frazer McLaren in their careers COMBINED have 16 goals.

 

[glg51*]

This threads preaching to the wrong crowd. The internet forum crowd has never been into that style of play.

 

[Muston Atthews]

You ever heard of Brian Boyle? Or even Cedric Paquette? Players like that make it so your skilled players play more relaxed.

Brian Boyle is as soft as baby ****

 

[DD03]

Brian Boyle is as soft as baby ****

He still makes people think twice.. They also had Gudas who was tough as **** before they had to make room for Coburn.

 

[Knies iT]

This team will never be built like that again. It's 4 lines, 6 d, who can all skate and play with skill. That's what the team is going to be built like going forward. How does Tampa survive without men of honor like Orr on their team? They just win by being more skilled. Ridiculous thread.

Why are you using Tampa as a reference point? The Tampa team that got swept by Montreal last year? Lightning fans themselves are frustrated with the lack of toughness on their team. Put that squad up against LA, STL, NSH, BOS, ANA, WPG, etc. and watch hilarity ensue; they will get ragdolled. That team has accomplished nothing despite having the second best goal scorer in the world and a boatload of top 5 picks (Drouin, Stamkos, Hedman, formerly Connolly). Most teams don't have that luxury. You are not building a team to become regular season paper champions or first round regulars; you want to build a contender.

Plus, they are an exception to the rule.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

This threads preaching to the wrong crowd. The internet forum crowd has never been into that style of play.

Oh please. Who the hell are you to tell me what hockey I enjoy? The 2013 season was my most enjoyable since I became a serious sports fan (how sad is that?)

Fact is Orr and McLaren sucked in 13-14, and did jack **** to help us win that year. They are not the difference between the Leafs being trash and the Leafs being a playoff team. The problems with this franchise fun far deeper than not playing two goons for 5 minutes every night.

I want a tough team that's respected as well, I just want it done with players who can fight and can actually contribute elsewhere when that isn't happening.

It's pathetic that the "pro" crowd of this argument has resorted to middle school insults like "nerds" to try and prove their point.

 

[achtungbaby]

Love Grapes. He's wrong about this.

The concept of an enforcer who can't play hockey is actually relatively new. Bob Probert - considered the standard bearer - had a 5 year run of 16, 20 14, 7, 19 goals. Colton Orr and Frazer McLaren in their careers COMBINED have 16 goals.

Great post. If you want to watch goons fight each other you can go to any beer league in the country and be satisfied.

 

[Snow Dog]

It seems everyone wants a tough team without fighters.Where are these players coming from?Until we get some we need a player to stand up for the team.Whether it's Orr or not I don't really care.

 

[deletethis]

Love Grapes. He's wrong about this.

The concept of an enforcer who can't play hockey is actually relatively new. Bob Probert - considered the standard bearer - had a 5 year run of 16, 20 14, 7, 19 goals. Colton Orr and Frazer McLaren in their careers COMBINED have 16 goals.

Times change. Not saying it's good or bad but Bob Probert would be as irrelevant as Orr and McLaren in today's higher paced NHL.

 

[paulhiggins]

Times change. Not saying it's good or bad but Bob Probert would be as irrelevant as Orr and McLaren in today's higher paced NHL.

Maybe a washed up Probert. A Probert in his prime (on a team with good penalty killers) would create an arms race.
Three ways to handle a guy like that who plays in top 9. Put out your own heavyweight and get Probert off the ice. Ignore him and let him create havoc, pain and possible injury with your own top 6. Put out your own heavyweight that can play top 9 and let him do whatever he wants with the other teams best players. Too many softies around here would choose the middle option even if it means losing and watching something like a dog running away with his tail between his legs. Modern upbringing? If team plays like cowards and loses all the time, you are getting what you deserve.

 

[TML1967]

I agree but....

I agree with Cherry that the Leafs as a team were too soft this year, and that part of that was no teams feared us.

BUT

I wouldnt say either of those guys is the solution. Its team toughness and grit that makes people respect you. Like Burke said/did in Calgary. If your going to be a team that is likely lottery bound, you might as well bring in some guys that make people pay for it. No sense in just getting run around, and having your young guys play scared.

If you have a winger on each line that plays a Tucker/Galagher/Marchand role, you may sometimes give up a bit of skill but it makes people less likely to run your stars because there focused on them instead.

If the leafs have Kessel and Kadri (assuming trade of Bozak) - why put another soft guy out there? Having someone who is tough and can grind and can play makes small players stand tall.

Team toughness is needed, not thugs

 

[glg51*]

Oh please. Who the hell are you to tell me what hockey I enjoy? The 2013 season was my most enjoyable since I became a serious sports fan (how sad is that?)

Fact is Orr and McLaren sucked in 13-14, and did jack **** to help us win that year. They are not the difference between the Leafs being trash and the Leafs being a playof team. The problems with this franchise fun far deeper than not playing two goons for 5 minutes every night.

I want a tough team that's respected as well, I just want it done with players who can fight and can actually contribute elsewhere when that isn't happening.

It's pathetic that the "pro" crowd of this argument has resorted to middle school insults like "nerds" to try and prove their point.

I'm just waiting for someone to prove me wrong using analytics lol

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Orr and McLaren played more games the year after we made the playoffs than the year we did.

they had more fights the year we had playoffs.

 

[Jacquestrapless]

I miss these days.

 

[CellarDweller0]

failed post

 

[hfdshdh]

failed post

Hey, that didn't stop anybody else in this thread.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

I think most of the players that can play as well as fight are taken.At least the ones worth having.

The leafs are actually developing several of those:

Carrick, DeVane, Biggs, MacWilliams, Leivo and Rupert all have sandpaper, can actually skate, and play to different degrees. I'm pretty sure each have the ability to drop the gloves if the situation calls for it.

 

[Snow Dog]

The leafs are actually developing several of those:

Carrick, DeVane, Biggs, MacWilliams, Leivo and Rupert all have sandpaper, can actually skate, and play to different degrees. I'm pretty sure each have the ability to drop the gloves if the situation calls for it.

I sure hope we're tanking next year if all those guys are called up.

 

[senor martinez]

Love Grapes. He's wrong about this.

The concept of an enforcer who can't play hockey is actually relatively new. Bob Probert - considered the standard bearer - had a 5 year run of 16, 20 14, 7, 19 goals. Colton Orr and Frazer McLaren in their careers COMBINED have 16 goals.

You have understood it all wrong.

Cherry meant that other teams would have a harder time playing against us. Paying the price they would. Not walk all over us. We would still LOSE of course, but in a different manner. Get it? Get it huh?

And Orr or Mclaren would have served us only this LOSING year. Not next season. Next season we want to win more, so we'll get different types of thugs. Like Clutterbuck, Martin, Dubinsky, Brown, Burns, Byfuglien, Joel Ward, Subban, others... not Orr. This was the season of Orr. We should have played games with him, because not one team respected us and we had nothing going on for us. We would still lose, but in a different manner. If a player injured one of us, he would get his. Our players wouldn't even get injured that much because of our thugs. Even a look from Orr is enough. Other teams and their players just stand still. Stuck at a standstill.
And we would still lose, but in a different manner. With respect.

 

[DD03]

People who keep mentioning how good Orr and McLaren are, and say they want better tough guys, are again being unreasonable. These guys don't just fall off trees that are able to play. That's why the Kings locked up Clifford and guys like that. But Orr and McLaren are the only guys the Leafs currently have that can play that way, that's why Cherry was talking about them.