Does this (the Sharks) make Mclellan look bad?

[Philly85*]

Oh right the love-in for Thornton for the first few series goes back to the same old narrative.

I didn't watch as much NHL this year, maybe 4 or 5 games in their entirety from round 1, probably 5 from round 2 and maybe 3 games from the third round. Watched the entire SCFs obviously. Most of the series I watched involved SJ, cuz they were the most fun to watch aside from Dallas. Joe seemed steady, if not average the whole way through. Pretty much par for the course in terms of his career. Haven't looked at any numbers so don't know if he's better or worse than years past in that sense but yeah, ho hum sorta deal for Big Joe. Don't think he should be blamed for anything at this point of his career.

 

[Hockey Nightmare]

McLellan has had 3 failed result seasons in a row. MIssing playoffs twice in a row and being one of the few coaches in history to have their team tank a series in which it led 3 games to 0. Being outscored 18-5 in the final 4 games to lose a series in a way that defines legendary failure. That was the worst playoff tank I'd ever seen in my life.

Then I guess they shouldn't have hired him in the first place? Good thing Boston didn't fire Claude Julien after their epic collapse against Philly in 2010.

 

[CupofOil]

McLellan has had 3 failed result seasons in a row. MIssing playoffs twice in a row and being one of the few coaches in history to have their team tank a series in which it led 3 games to 0. Being outscored 18-5 in the final 4 games to lose a series in a way that defines legendary failure. That was the worst playoff tank I'd ever seen in my life.

Yes, Mclellan HAD the Sharks lose, oh sorry tank apparently, 4 straight games and DeBoer HAD the Sharks looking like a bunch of dopes against a Pens team that would have likely been whitewashed by that L.A. team.
All Mclellan's fault that the Sharks choked away a 3-0 series load and all DeBoer's fault that the Sharks got absolutely roasted by the Pens. Fair?

I actually thought that the Sharks being decimated in the SCF would have put a stop to the anti-Mclellan agenda but I guess I was wrong.

This entire thread was ridiculous from the start. The fact of the matter is that the core players on the Sharks don't have what it takes to win the big one. This is not Mclellan or DeBoer's fault. Both are good NHL coaches, lets leave it at that.

 

[Replacement*]

You don't think it was possible for any coach to actually make the playoffs with this team this year did you?

Few people thought the Sharks would make the playoffs. I realize its not the same thing. But one team jumped from finishing 20th to finishing the subsequent season as the 2nd best team in the league. The other went from 28th to 29th place.


Look, McLellan is a good, not great coach, and his understudy, Woodcroft, is a fool. Collectively that has resulted in no improvement albeit I expect slight improvement this season. But the org had surmised, and suggested that the team would be making the playoffs as of Rogers place. The org told its fans that's what they were expecting, that was their timeline. I guess not at this point..

We'll see in a couple of weeks what we can expect.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Few people thought the Sharks would make the playoffs. I realize its not the same thing. But one team jumped from finishing 20th to finishing the subsequent season as the 2nd best team in the league. The other went from 28th to 29th place.


Look, McLellan is a good, not great coach, and his understudy, Woodcroft, is a fool. Collectively that has resulted in no improvement albeit I expect slight improvement this season. But the org had surmised, and suggested that the team would be making the playoffs as of Rogers place. The org told its fans that's what they were expecting, that was their timeline. I guess not at this point..

We'll see in a couple of weeks what we can expect.

I mean... Have you SEEN this division? Who was going to unseat the Sharks from 3rd place? Everyone knew the Flames were frauds, as were the Canucks. The Coyotes weren't going to make it, and then there's the Oilers...

 

[Hockey Nightmare]

I agree that the Sharks not making it last year was more of an anomaly than anything else. Just like another anomaly named Calgary.

 

[Replacement*]

Yes, Mclellan HAD the Sharks lose, oh sorry tank apparently, 4 straight games and DeBoer HAD the Sharks looking like a bunch of dopes against a Pens team that would have likely been whitewashed by that L.A. team.
All Mclellan's fault that the Sharks choked away a 3-0 series load and all DeBoer's fault that the Sharks got absolutely roasted by the Pens. Fair?

I actually thought that the Sharks being decimated in the SCF would have put a stop to the anti-Mclellan agenda but I guess I was wrong.

This entire thread was ridiculous from the start. The fact of the matter is that the core players on the Sharks don't have what it takes to win the big one. This is not Mclellan or DeBoer's fault. Both are good NHL coaches, lets leave it at that.

Fault? Look, The Sharks weren't just beat 4 games straight in 2014. They were massacred in the final 4 games. That's why I raise this. If they had competed in those games and barely lost I would not raise this. But the sharks were knocked out in game 4 and never recovered. That was round 1. The Sharks won ZERO rounds that year. My expectation of a coaching staff is that they provide leadership and can go into a room and help a team prepare, they can go into a room and divert the club from what is going on and pull them off the canvas. They can inspire a room in at least 1 of 4 pregame opportunities.

hey, years ago a Flyers team in 87 that had previously lost to the Oilers in 5 games in 85 were again down 3-1 in the series. They could have mailed it in, they could have given up. But Keenan had that team rebounding heroically to take it all the way into game 7 and with game 7 even being a 60minute nail biter. The best series I'd ever seen. Keenan did everything in his power to keep raising that club off the canvas. Keenan should have won the Conn Smythe. If a coach could win.

Deboer took this team to the SC final and it winning 3 rounds and going late in the final. That's pretty good.

The Sharks were staggered in this final series in game 1. do you think they would have had any bounce back at all if McLellan was behind the bench?

Anyway Deboers 2 SC finals and BOTH coaching teams that had missed the playoffs the year prior. McLellan zero SC finals and has never been close.

This was not a great Sharks club, its a pretty ordinary lineup after the core. Thornton, Burns, Vlasic, Couture, Pavelski are great players but after that its slim pickings.

The org didn't even supplement very much to go on a run. Additionsl like Polak and Spaling at trade deadline. Ultimately it cost them severely as they couldn't match the Pens depth.

 

[Replacement*]

I agree that the Sharks not making it last year was more of an anomaly than anything else. Just like another anomaly named Calgary.

Except if you actually watched the team had given up on their coach. They had plenty of chances to get in, win important games down the stretch, they tanked instead. They played like they wanted golf, and wanted the season over. Knowing that the team fired the coaching staff. Hey, it happens. But the notion that we got a great coach is interesting. We got a fired coach who could never do anything in the playoffs and that had a good enough lineup even miss the playoffs.

McLellan is good, not great, Woodcroft is awful. Being that they a tandem I factor that into account of what I think about a tandem that coached this much improved Oilers lineup to a worse finish.

of course he gets a Mulligan this year to do over but I don't see Woodcroft and the PP improving a lot.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Except if you actually watched the team had given up on their coach. They had plenty of chances to get in, win important games down the stretch, they tanked instead. They played like they wanted golf, and wanted the season over. Knowing that the team fired the coaching staff. Hey, it happens. But the notion that we got a great coach is interesting. We got a fired coach who could never do anything in the playoffs and that had a good enough lineup even miss the playoffs.

McLellan is good, not great, Woodcroft is awful. Being that they a tandem I factor that into account of what I think about a tandem that coached this much improved Oilers lineup to a worse finish.

of course he gets a Mulligan this year to do over but I don't see Woodcroft and the PP improving a lot.

Now if only the players on the Oilers didn't suck.

Leading goal scorer isn't even one of their shiny first overalls. Some scrub they picked at 22.

 

[Spawn]

So much talk earlier about deboer being a master tactician who could adapt his game plan. Runs into a faster team and he didn't have a single answer. The most lopsided finals the league has seen in almost a decade. Was like taking candy from a baby for the pens. Only a heroic effort from jones kept it from being over in 4 or 5.

McLellans time was up with the sharks and they needed a new voice. But that team isn't any better under deBoer than they were under mclellan the majority of his time there.

 

[Replacement*]

So much talk earlier about deboer being a master tactician who could adapt his game plan. Runs into a faster team and he didn't have a single answer. The most lopsided finals the league has seen in almost a decade. Was like taking candy from a baby for the pens. Only a heroic effort from jones kept it from being over in 4 or 5.

McLellans time was up with the sharks and they needed a new voice. But that team isn't any better under deBoer than they were under mclellan the majority of his time there.

In the series I saw the Sharks looked knocked out and staggered in game 1 in the final. The Sharks were giving the puck away like Candy on Halloween and had to entirely revise how to break out, for sure Sullivan is a great coach and had the pens very well prepared. They were covering breakouts that the Sharks had employed against other clubs.

It wasn't until game 3, 4, that Sharks were doing better in transition and got wins in game 3 and 5, and were the better team in game 4 that they lost. The first two games the Sharks shouldn't have even been in.

Even last night Sharks had their best period of the series in 2nd period. 13 shots, a fair amount considering how tight the Pens play.

Again I'll say this. The Sharks were the only team in a month and a half to limit the Pens to as little as 20 something shots. 20 in game 4, 27 in game 6. Tampa was allowing an average of 39shots a night and survived on goaltending.

I have to wonder if a McLellan coached club even brings this to 6 games after how bad game 1 went.

Last time A sharks Mclellan coached team was that shocked they lsot 4 in a row to blow a series getting outscored 18-5 in the last 4 games.

Its all conjecture, but its been stated by Thornton that Deboer is really good at getting the team believing in itself.

 

[CupofOil]

Fault? Look, The Sharks weren't just beat 4 games straight in 2014. They were massacred in the final 4 games. That's why I raise this. If they had competed in those games and barely lost I would not raise this. But the sharks were knocked out in game 4 and never recovered. That was round 1. The Sharks won ZERO rounds that year. My expectation of a coaching staff is that they provide leadership and can go into a room and help a team prepare, they can go into a room and divert the club from what is going on and pull them off the canvas. They can inspire a room in at least 1 of 4 pregame opportunities.


hey, years ago a Flyers team in 87 that had previously lost to the Oilers in 5 games in 85 were again down 3-1 in the series. They could have mailed it in, they could have given up. But Keenan had that team rebounding heroically to take it all the way into game 7 and with game 7 even being a 60minute nail biter. The best series I'd ever seen. Keenan did everything in his power to keep raising that club off the canvas. Keenan should have won the Conn Smythe. If a coach could win.

Deboer took this team to the SC final and it winning 3 rounds and going late in the final. That's pretty good.

The Sharks were staggered in this final series in game 1. do you think they would have had any bounce back at all if McLellan was behind the bench?

Anyway Deboers 2 SC finals and BOTH coaching teams that had missed the playoffs the year prior. McLellan zero SC finals and has never been close.

This was not a great Sharks club, its a pretty ordinary lineup after the core. Thornton, Burns, Vlasic, Couture, Pavelski are great players but after that its slim pickings.

The org didn't even supplement very much to go on a run. Additionsl like Polak and Spaling at trade deadline. Ultimately it cost them severely as they couldn't match the Pens depth.

Well, the Sharks were vastly outplayed and outhustled in 6 straight games against the Pens. You figured that DeBoer could have got them motivated for at least one of those games. See where I'm going with this? A Game 6 on their home ice in a must win game and they can't even muster 20 shots? Did they even get a scoring chance in the 3rd? Is the majority of this DeBoer's fault? Absolutely not, just like Mclellan shouldn't be wearing the goat horns for them losing 4 straight to the Kings. The Sharks core just can't win the big one.

Did the Blues choking year after year make Quenneville any less of a coach?
Are Boudreau and Trotz considered lesser coaches because their teams choke?
Are Marc Crawford and Randy Carlyle considered great coaches because their teams won a cup?

There's a very small minority of coaches who make a clear difference good or bad especially when it comes to young teams. When it comes to veteran teams like the Sharks and the constant failure year after year? It's pretty clear that the culprit is the core group.

 

[Spawn]

In the series I saw the Sharks looked knocked out and staggered in game 1 in the final. The Sharks were giving the puck away like Candy on Halloween and had to entirely revise how to break out, for sure Sullivan is a great coach and had the pens very well prepared. They were covering breakouts that the Sharks had employed against other clubs.

It wasn't until game 3, 4, that Sharks were doing better in transition and got wins in game 3 and 5, and were the better team in game 4 that they lost. The first two games the Sharks shouldn't have even been in.

Even last night Sharks had their best period of the series in 2nd period. 13 shots, a fair amount considering how tight the Pens play.

Again I'll say this. The Sharks were the only team in a month and a half to limit the Pens to as little as 20 something shots. 20 in game 4, 27 in game 6. Tampa was allowing an average of 39shots a night and survived on goaltending.

I have to wonder if a McLellan coached club even brings this to 6 games after how bad game 1 went.

Last time A sharks Mclellan coached team was that shocked they lsot 4 in a row to blow a series getting outscored 18-5 in the last 4 games.

Its all conjecture, but its been stated by Thornton that Deboer is really good at getting the team believing in itself.

And it's been stated by Burns that McLellan is the best coach he's ever played for.

Both of these guys are good coaches. No doubt about it. McLellan had some great seasons with San Jose in regular seasons and playoffs. But this Sharks team is never quite good enough to get over the hump.

 

[Replacement*]

Well, the Sharks were vastly outplayed and outhustled in 6 straight games against the Pens. You figured that DeBoer could have got them motivated for at least one of those games. See where I'm going with this? A Game 6 on their home ice in a must win game and they can't even muster 20 shots? Did they even get a scoring chance in the 3rd? Is the majority of this DeBoer's fault? Absolutely not, just like Mclellan shouldn't be wearing the goat horns for them losing 4 straight to the Kings. The Sharks core just can't win the big one.

Did the Blues choking year after year make Quenneville any less of a coach?
Are Boudreau and Trotz considered lesser coaches because their teams choke?
Are Marc Crawford and Randy Carlyle considered great coaches because their teams won a cup?

There's a very small minority of coaches who make a clear difference good or bad especially when it comes to young teams. When it comes to veteran teams like the Sharks and the constant failure year after year? It's pretty clear that the culprit is the core group.

The Sharks were the better team in game 4, a game they lost because Jones was weak. just saying.

Pens were the better team in this series and I said going in that they were a much better opponent than people were suggesting and I specifically stated the Sharks had not had to contend with that kind of speed and talent. Blues particularly couldn't even match pace with SJ and couldn't contain the breakouts. Preds didn't play one adequate game among 4 in SJ.

Sharks weren't tested like this until the final. The Sharks lost to the club everybody else lost to.

Still, getting two non playoff clubs into the SC final speaks volumes. Or should..

 

[Replacement*]

And it's been stated by Burns that McLellan is the best coach he's ever played for.

Both of these guys are good coaches. No doubt about it. McLellan had some great seasons with San Jose in regular seasons and playoffs. But this Sharks team is never quite good enough to get over the hump.

I saw the Thornton quote as it occurred right in a postgame interview on a playoff broadcast. Never saw the Burns citation. Never saw that once.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

The Sharks were the better team in game 4, a game they lost because Jones was weak. just saying.

Pens were the better team in this series and I said going in that they were a much better opponent than people were suggesting and I specifically stated the Sharks had not had to contend with that kind of speed and talent. Blues particularly couldn't even match pace with SJ and couldn't contain the breakouts. Preds didn't play one adequate game among 4 in SJ.

Sharks weren't tested like this until the final. The Sharks lost to the club everybody else lost to.

Still, getting two non playoff clubs into the SC final speaks volumes. Or should..

The goalie is a part of the team. So apparently no, they weren't better than the Penguins in the category that matters the most in hockey.

 

[iCanada]

I saw the Thornton quote as it occurred right in a postgame interview on a playoff broadcast. Never saw the Burns citation. Never saw that once.

On the contrary I saw the Burns citation live at the world championships last year right in the post game of the final WHC game, never saw the Thornton citation...

 

[Spawn]

I saw the Thornton quote as it occurred right in a postgame interview on a playoff broadcast. Never saw the Burns citation. Never saw that once.

From last years world hockey championship

 

[dustrock]

So much talk earlier about deboer being a master tactician who could adapt his game plan. Runs into a faster team and he didn't have a single answer. The most lopsided finals the league has seen in almost a decade. Was like taking candy from a baby for the pens. Only a heroic effort from jones kept it from being over in 4 or 5.

McLellans time was up with the sharks and they needed a new voice. But that team isn't any better under deBoer than they were under mclellan the majority of his time there.

Agreed completely. People used to bemoan McLellan's lack of tactical adjustments but DeBoer didn't change anything up either.

Sharks got 2 PP/game in the Finals, 4 PP/game leading up to the Finals. That's another reason.

 

[MinimaMoralia]

Well, it's going to be interesting to see how the Sharks do next year. If they can keep the momentum going and stay dangerous and competitive in 2017, then you have to give DeBoer credit.
You have to figure, however, that their confidence, enthusiasm and team camaraderie has to take a bit of a hit after such a disastrous final.
With the vets aging another year, Burns on the final year of his contract, it's going to be a difficult follow-up season for the Sharks and for DeBoer I think.

 

[MessierII]

Few people thought the Sharks would make the playoffs. I realize its not the same thing. But one team jumped from finishing 20th to finishing the subsequent season as the 2nd best team in the league. The other went from 28th to 29th place.


Look, McLellan is a good, not great coach, and his understudy, Woodcroft, is a fool. Collectively that has resulted in no improvement albeit I expect slight improvement this season. But the org had surmised, and suggested that the team would be making the playoffs as of Rogers place. The org told its fans that's what they were expecting, that was their timeline. I guess not at this point..

We'll see in a couple of weeks what we can expect.

You don't think the team showed improvement? They improved in just about every measurable way in spite of having the worst run of injuries in several years.

 

[Dimensha]

I saw the Thornton quote as it occurred right in a postgame interview on a playoff broadcast. Never saw the Burns citation. Never saw that once.

“I tell all the guys what I think about Todd. I think he’s one of the best coaches in the NHL,” said the defenceman who has had McLellan as his head coach with the San Jose Sharks the last four years after winning a Calder Cup with him in Houston in the AHL.

“I’ve had him as my head coach for a long time and he has a really uncanny ability to demand respect but at the same time be very approachable.

“He’s one of the smartest tacticians of all the guys out there in the game. I think he’s just a great coach. Whoever gets him is going to be lucky.” -Brent Burns in an interview at the 2015 World Championships.

Quoted in The Edmonton Sun in an article by Terry Jones on Friday May 8, 2015. http://www.edmontonsun.com/2015/05/08/terry-jones-taylor-hall-and-jordan-eberle-sing-praise-for-todd-mclellan

Now you've seen it.

 

[I am the Liquor]

 

[Replacement*]

From last years world hockey championship

lol, sorry, but it doesn't strike you or anybody as ironic that the Burns comment then came from a player playing in the WC because his team missed the playoffs.

I mean thanks for telling me when it was, I rarely watch hockey WC, mainly because I feel its a poor consolation tournament for all the non playoff clubs and early knockouts.

in anycase I wonder what Burns would say a year later? What was his frame of reference really? He had his best hockey season just now.

 

[Replacement*]

You don't think the team showed improvement? They improved in just about every measurable way in spite of having the worst run of injuries in several years.

The team had 50 games of McDavid and a full season of Talbot. That alone should have resulted in considerable improvement. It was a given that there should be improvement, the team drafted one of the best players in hockey, and the team got a great goaltender. The actual results considering that, and finishing even lower in the standings is not exactly great. Yes I realize there was modest improvement in goal differential but special teams, pk, PP, still absolutely sucked and are facets of the game that are influenced by coaching.

Worst run of injuries/ was it? I cant' remember a year where we had more of our core players intact and playing most of the season.