Does this (the Sharks) make Mclellan look bad?

[McGoMcD]

Pretty simple question. the sharks miss the playoffs last year, never get it done in the playoffs until Todd is gone. Mclellan didn't do much with the oilers this year.

Is he the answer behind the bench? starting to wonder.

Click to read more...

 

[I am the Liquor]

If simple is what you're going for I think you hit it out of the park.

 

[The Safe Play]

Completely different Shark team this year and McLellan took worse teams to the Conference Finals 2 times.

 

[Cerebral]

Pretty simple question. the shards miss the playoffs last year, never get it done in the playoffs until Todd is gone. Mclellan didn't do much with the oilers this year.

Is he the answer behind the bench? starting to wonder.

I think that's a pretty simplistic view of things. There is zero doubt DeBoer has done a great job with the Sharks and he seems like a really strong tactical coach.

At the same time, the Sharks also have the deepest team they've had in a long time this season and that has helped a lot. In particular, having Martin on the blueline, Ward at forward, and most importantly, Martin Jones in goal has been the biggest difference.

In short: Pete DeBoer is a great coach and so is Todd McLellan.

 

[Del Preston]

No but people will spin it that way.

 

[McGoMcD]

ok, so no thoughts then? I get it, coaching involves a lot of variables, not all in the coaches control. However, at the end of the day the ultimate results is wins vs losses. McLellan isn't looking good in that department right now.

I honestly don't know, that is why I ask. I think at very least it is worth the discussion.

 

[oilinblood]

I think that's a pretty simplistic view of things. There is zero doubt DeBoer has done a great job with the Sharks and he seems like a really strong tactical coach.

At the same time, the Sharks also have the deepest team they've had in a long time this season and that has helped a lot. In particular, having Martin on the blueline, Ward at forward, and most importantly, Martin Jones in goal has been the biggest difference.

In short: Pete DeBoer is a great coach and so is Todd McLellan.

This is how i feel too. Plus EVERY coach adapts their tactics. I expect a good coach will adapt. Players need to do that too.

As much as Joe T gets razzed, he has had some pretty good playoffs. I think he has learned to make the puck do the work and not get carried away. Years ago hed be answering questions non-stop and getting frustrated about lack of goals. now he simply doesnt care. he answers interviews with "im aa great player". i like that. the side show around him doesnt faze him anymore.
Hertl is a better player this year than 2 years ago
Pavs is a completely different playoff player (complete game wise) compared to 2 years ago

and as stated by others, Martin, Ward ARE PLAYOFF bodies you need. Every successful team carries guys like these who bang in those grease goals, work the opposing d, and give solid punishment from time to time on opposing forwards who get too close.

This is not regular season. This sharks team was made for the playoffs more than the earlier versions


----------------------------------------------------

I think McL simply lost the room. It happens. with that team falling apart so many times with terrible goaltending or injuries or lack of playoff will...i think it just wore the guys down. eventually if a team stops progressing they will get stagnant. thats what happened. they needed change to refocus their sites.

That being said... Deboer worked his stars on the PK about half as much during the regular season as McL habitually did. I think you see Thornton and Marleaus bodies holding up pretty good. I remember both of them looking in rough shape in past playoffs...where you knew the odometer reading was crashing for the year.

I also like Deboer using his 4 lines more which...again is a personnel thing, and maybe Tmac would change how he utilized his bench if he had Ward and Martin and others.

As someone has stated...there were always terrible goalie games in Sharks disasters before too. Mediocre goaltending behind a juggernaut regular season built offense.


Different coaches yes but very different team.

I like Joe. I am really happy he is going to the Finals. Ive met him 3 times and if he was just a normal guy hed certainly fit in with my buddies. low key, but quick with a quip, says whats on his mind but doesnt yell and scream. pretty friendly guy but not a guy who needs or tries to attract attention.

With Schultz in Pitts I am torn on whether i want Pitts advancing. PArt of me wants to see Kessel play well in the finals so the Leaffans shut up. I hate Kessel though. I like him bashing reporters for dumb questions but he really is a ouch bag.

 

[Replacement*]

The Sharks have a good lineup but not better than they had 2 yrs ago. Deboers made a huge difference with this team as Jumbo just said and its clear as day.

The Sharks are playing system hockey, excellent puck support, puck battles and everybody back.

This Sharks team has never played system hockey this well and has never had a PP this good.

Its hard to escape the coaching is better now.

Plus Deboers has been to the cup before and has been an excellent playoff coach.

 

[McGoMcD]

Completely different Shark team this year and McLellan took worse teams to the Conference Finals 2 times.

great point. I agree there, I guess the question then is "has he lost something"? Is he as good of a coach as he once was, ultimately the sharks decided to fire him. so their stance on the issue is clear.

 

[MCDAVIDISH]

It's bad, definitely bad

 

[Jumptheshark]

No but people will spin it that way.

that was my reaction

Sharks started very very badly--then in Jan kicked it in

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I mean, Sharks still haven't won it all yet.

Even though they will.

 

[Replacement*]

McLellan MISSED the playoffs with a pretty solid Sharks team. Deboers has them all the way to the SC final and in convincing fashion. Any questions.

WAnt another one.

2yrs ago Sharks up 3-0 in a series against the Kings and LOSE the series. Under McLellan. They follow it up with an absolute nosedive season where everything falls apart and McLellan is fired.

Sharks hire a new coach and exceed all expectations. Beat an excellent Kings squad in 5 games NEVER taking the foot off the pedal. Completely different team attitude and confidence.

Not one expert predicting a SC team but here they are. Playing better hockey than ever.

 

[Canovin]

Not saying TMac isn't a good coach but Nelson also did more with less.

 

[CupofOil]

Coaching is all about timing. DeBoer took over perhaps the deepest Sharks team ever. Martin, Donskoi, Ward, Jones, Polak, Spaling with little lost off the roster. I never understood in the offseason why so many people were counting this team out.
I could see even back then that they had a banner offseason of adding important depth so DeBoer had the fortune of taking on this team which was ripe to make a Cup run.

Keep in mind, this is the same DeBoer who the Devils fans were running out of town (ruined Larsson etc.). Their board was in full party mode when he was fired so the bottom line is that coaches need the right players to succeed and he walked into a really good situation. He did coach a hell of a playoffs though and has this team firing on all cylinders so he certainly deserves credit for a job well done.

What San Jose's playoff success doesn't do is diminish Mclellan as a head coach and I'm not sure why he's getting blame for the Oilers failure this season, seems kind of silly to blame him to be honest.
I think he has this Oiler team headed in the right direction despite the modest jump in the standings. This season was the best the Oilers looked 5 on 5 in a long time. Get that PP fixed and we'll see a more substantial jump up the standings. DeBoer is a good coach and so is Mclellan. Of this I have little doubt.

Not saying TMac isn't a good coach but Nelson also did more with less.

This is quite false. The team had a very poor record under Nelson and was a mess at even strength which is where most of the game is played.
The Nelson era looked like a success because of how poor they looked under Eakins. Team was still a mess under Nelson, they just played with more freedom offensively which gave the appearance that the team was doing well not too dissimilar from the Krueger era. A team riding a hot PP.

 

[McGoMcD]

Coaching is all about timing. DeBoer took over perhaps the deepest Sharks team ever. Martin, Donskoi, Ward, Jones, Polak, Spaling with little lost off the roster. I never understood in the offseason why so many people were counting this team out.
I could see even back then that they had a banner offseason of adding important depth so DeBoer had the fortune of taking on this team which was ripe to make a Cup run.

Keep in mind, this is the same DeBoer who the Devils fans were running out of town (ruined Larsson etc.). Their board was in full party mode when he was fired so the bottom line is that coaches need the right players to succeed and he walked into a really good situation. He did coach a hell of a playoffs though and has this team firing on all cylinders so he certainly deserves credit for a job well done.

What San Jose's playoff success doesn't do is diminish Mclellan as a head coach and I'm not sure why he's getting blame for the Oilers failure this season, seems kind of silly to blame him to be honest.
I think he has this Oiler team headed in the right direction despite the modest jump in the standings. This season was the best the Oilers looked 5 on 5 in a long time. Get that PP fixed and we'll see a more substantial jump up the standings. DeBoer is a good coach and so is Mclellan. Of this I have little doubt.

Ya, but its all circular, did DoBoer take over a better team with better players, or did he get more out of the players he had? It is hard to know, just doesn't make TM look great. Bottom line he had some very talented teams that never made that next step.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

McLellan MISSED the playoffs with a pretty solid Sharks team. Deboers has them all the way to the SC final and in convincing fashion. Any questions.

WAnt another one.

2yrs ago Sharks up 3-0 in a series against the Kings and LOSE the series. Under McLellan. They follow it up with an absolute nosedive season where everything falls apart and McLellan is fired.

Sharks hire a new coach and exceed all expectations. Beat an excellent Kings squad in 5 games NEVER taking the foot off the pedal. Completely different team attitude and confidence.

Not one expert predicting a SC team but here they are. Playing better hockey than ever.

And if the Sharks should somehow lose the Finals this year they'll never get another look at it. DeBoer and all.

 

[Canovin]

This is quite false. The team had a very poor record under Nelson and was a mess at even strength which is where most of the game is played.
The Nelson era looked like a success because of how poor they looked under Eakins. Team was still a mess under Nelson, they just played with more freedom offensively which gave the appearance that the team was doing well not too dissimilar from the Krueger era. A team riding a hot PP.

Keep in mind, TMac team had McDavid, Davidson, Sekera and Talbot

 

[Replacement*]

Coaching is all about timing. DeBoer took over perhaps the deepest Sharks team ever. Martin, Donskoi, Ward, Jones, Polak, Spaling with little lost off the roster. I never understood in the offseason why so many people were counting this team out.
I could see even back then that they had a banner offseason of adding important depth so DeBoer had the fortune of taking on this team which was ripe to make a Cup run.

Keep in mind, this is the same DeBoer who the Devils fans were running out of town (ruined Larsson etc.). Their board was in full party mode when he was fired so the bottom line is that coaches need the right players to succeed and he walked into a really good situation. He did coach a hell of a playoffs though and has this team firing on all cylinders so he certainly deserves credit for a job well done.

What San Jose's playoff success doesn't do is diminish Mclellan as a head coach and I'm not sure why he's getting blame for the Oilers failure this season, seems kind of silly to blame him to be honest.
I think he has this Oiler team headed in the right direction despite the modest jump in the standings. This season was the best the Oilers looked 5 on 5 in a long time. Get that PP fixed and we'll see a more substantial jump up the standings. DeBoer is a good coach and so is Mclellan. Of this I have little doubt.



This is quite false. The team had a very poor record under Nelson and was a mess at even strength which is where most of the game is played.
The Nelson era looked like a success because of how poor they looked under Eakins. Team was still a mess under Nelson, they just played with more freedom offensively which gave the appearance that the team was doing well not too dissimilar from the Krueger era. A team riding a hot PP.

One sided. Lets tell the real story. Deboers took a very ordinary NJD team all the way to the final and gave even the Kings more trouble than they had a right to.

Jones, Polak, Spalding were hardly considered much of anything and were no more than routine additions. jebus Polak and Spalding are the definition of routine fill. lets not forget a lot of good players from two years ago no longer in the Sharks lineup. 2014 was a very good sharks club, also had a deep D. Another difference is Burns, under present tutelage shifting to an elite D this season.

 

[CupofOil]

Ya, but its all circular, did DoBoer take over a better team with better players, or did he get more out of the players he had? It is hard to know, just doesn't make TM look great. Bottom line he had some very talented teams that never made that next step.

This has no bearing on Mclellan as a coach whatsoever. Mclellan's time had run out in San Jose, it had grown stale which is not uncommon for longer tenured coaches. DeBoer took over a much deeper group that felt like it had a fresh start, you see this happen a lot when a new coach comes in.

As I said, DeBoer deserves some credit but San Jose's success this season doesn't diminish Mclellan as a HC. You're overthinking this.
Mclellan had talented teams but they paled in comparison to the Kings and Hawks when you looked at forward depth, top 4 D and goaltending.

Ask Devils fans about DeBoer's last few seasons there. You'll be surprised at the answers. Apparently, he was singlehandedly ruining Larsson's career. Now he's a great coach now that he took over an infinitely more talented team. Go figure

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Keep in mind, TMac team had McDavid, Davidson, Sekera and Talbot

McDavid aside none of those players are special.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

One sided. Lets tell the real story. Deboers took a very ordinary NJD team all the way to the final and gave even the Kings more trouble than they had a right to.

Jones, Polak, Spalding were hardly considered much of anything and were no more than routine additions. jebus Polak and Spalding are the definition of routine fill. lets not forget a lot of good players from two years ago no longer in the Sharks lineup. 2014 was a very good sharks club, also had a deep D. Another difference is Burns, under present tutelage shifting to an elite D this season.

Didn't they only make some noise after they were basically out of the series? Gagged two OT games at home. Devils haven't even made the playoffs since have they?

 

[Canovin]

McDavid aside none of those players are special.

But they are upgrades to what we had when Nelson coached the team.

 

[Replacement*]

Ya, but its all circular, did DoBoer take over a better team with better players, or did he get more out of the players he had? It is hard to know, just doesn't make TM look great. Bottom line he had some very talented teams that never made that next step.

Its not really that hard to know.

1) Watch the Sharks system play

2) Watch the Sharks puck support in breakout

3) Watch the sharks dedication to getting puck out, safe pucks, moving up ice, keeping puck deep.

4)Watch the same Sharks core players playing a better 200ft game than they ever did before

5)Watch the Sharks PP be better than it ever was before

6) Watch the Sharks pk be better than it ever was before.



The above are all coaching related metrics. Combine that with going from missing the playoffs one season to headed to the SC final the next and its more than just the addition of a few good players. That kind of radical shift in a teams play is typically linked to coaching.

In the words of Jumbo, its Deboers who deserves the credit, he's the one that changed everything. I'll take that.

 

[CupofOil]

Keep in mind, TMac team had McDavid, Davidson, Sekera and Talbot

He had McDavid for half a season and Davidson only had a handful of really good games. Most of the top 6 D was missing the last half of the season along with the multitude of injuries up front. This team was definitely a more improved squad this season, "Visually better" if you will with more structure. Still bad but the look of a team that was starting to put it together a bit.