Speculation: Does Tavares leaving New York have any bearing on future UFA's?

[CupsOverCash]

Its possible that he didnt want to be traded at the time because he thought his team still had a chance to compete. Weren't they competing for a playoff spot at the time of the deadline??

 

[BrockLobster]

To answer the OP's question.......you have the best player this franchise had since.......maybe ever and certainly during the modern era......leaving, most likely because of lack of support to build around him with solid players.........do you think potential UFA's won't notice that?

Is this a real post?

 

[TheGroceryStick]

17 points out of a wild card 3 way tie. When you say playoff push what do you mean ? Having watched all the games I can say we were never really in a playoff push but we did finish the year with our patented don't mean crap 3 game win streak . As the thread topic goes in regard to my team we basically never sign big name FA 's anyway . Ladd was the biggest in years and he is a turd

They were 17 back at the deadline? I thought it was tighter then.

Regardless....they shoulda set a deadline

 

[heretik27]

yup....

Someone beat you to it literally the post after mine. Point still stands, I liked when franchises kept their talent for the duration of their careers or at least the bulk of it. We don't identify players like Modano or Brodeur with Detroit or St Louis. Too much fluidity wouldn't be a good thing for player+team legacies imo. It just feels weird to think people wouldn't want guys like Ovechkin or Crosby to play out their careers with the teams that drafted them. I mean those franchises built their success off of the backs of their superstar players. Tavares situation reminds me of Roenick's in the 90's. He was stuck playing for a garbage Chicago team and ended up practically forcing a trade as an RFA because it seemed from Chicago's side Roenick wasn't even interested in signing a deal. So they traded him to Phoenix.. lol.. well he at least got paid.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

Who’s the source that said Tavares asked not to be traded?

I still haven’t seen the original tweet or article and it’s been a month

Look no further than his tweet the day he announced the trade and the following letter to Islander fans. He said in both it was his lifelong calling to be a Leaf and the decision made itself. He spurned the Isles and he took a lot less to spurn the Sharks for the Leafs. He had no desire to return to the Islanders and the bulk of his play in the second half of the season reflected that.

To add to this is what Mark Hermmann of Newsday dug up Herrmann: Isles fans left on pins and needles:

For his part, Tavares could have made life easier for the team and fan base. Word around the team was that he emphatically asked not to be dealt at the trading deadline when he might have brought a handsome return (and possibly changed the course of the playoffs). It led the Islanders to stand pat, which put them at risk of getting nothing for the best asset they have had since they dealt Pat LaFontaine (for star Pierre Turgeon and significant other talent).

Direct quote no but when a reporter is putting his rear end on the line with an article his editors verify the material. This would have happened here, and Mark is a good reporter with a solid reporting history.

I get it that many Leaf fans won't approach this objectively but it is there in both pieces of writing from him plus the Hermmann article points directly to the obvious. Tavares wanted out and for reasons we could speculate on whether it is spite or trying to maximize whatever contract he got from the Leafs in the end or something entirely different.... What is pretty obvious is he didn't want to get traded and we Islander fans got screwed in the process.

And now he is the most hated ex-Islander in NY history.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Look no further than his tweet the day he announced the trade and the following letter to Islander fans. He said in both it was his lifelong calling to be a Leaf and the decision made itself. He spurned the Isles and he took a lot less to spurn the Sharks for the Leafs. He had no desire to return to the Islanders and the bulk of his play in the second half of the season reflected that.

I get it that many Leaf fans won't approach this objectively but it is there in both pieces of writing from him.

He definitely seemed like he wanted to be a leaf, and made it abundantly clear, even in his letter, and you know what?

I LOVE IT

 

[A Pointed Stick]

He definitely seemed like he wanted to be a leaf, and made it abundantly clear, even in his letter, and you know what?

I LOVE IT

I respect your honesty. If the shoe was on the other foot I'd feel exactly the same way.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

I respect your honesty. If the shoe was on the other foot I'd feel exactly the same way.

Yeah man I feel ya. It’s tough.

But you got Barzal, and Lou is gonna right the ship for u guys

 

[A Pointed Stick]

Yeah man I feel ya. It’s tough.

But you got Barzal, and Lou is gonna right the ship for u guys

Thanks. This has been a strange offseason. The general feeling is that getting Lou, Trotz, Korn, etc., will be better for us in the long run than keeping Tavares and also retaining Snow, Weight, etc. I agree with that. We also had an unexpectedly good draft. It just sucks to push the needle back as far as we did on what was being built.

 

[and 99 others]

One time doesn't really do it especially when stamkos stayed, john carlson stayed etc

If multiple stars start going then maybe

Chris Drury and Scott Gomez left their teams in the same offseason

 

[LeapOnOver]

So imagine being a captain of a hockey team and telling your teammates/fans you no longer want to be a part of it. How do you think you would be treated? I realize he pulled kind of a **** move but its not like he could've flat out said "I want to play for Toronto". How would've the fans reacted? The captain has a certain standard to live up to and IMO telling the media you will not be re-signing with the team your are currently captaining may not have been the best decision.

He could have very simply done what Tomas Vanek did. Nobody booed Vanek here. He simply could have said that he is going to test free agency and that would have been the end of it. He wouldn't need to go in depth about the team, blah blah blah. He just would have come out and said that, that is all. Don't act like he had to make some huge press conference to line out his reasoning for it. The team was 17 points out of a playoff spot and that point and the distraction he had already created while waiting that long was in the air. It actually would have made a better distraction to how crappy the season was because we could be checking out any new prospects we got in the trade.

 

[LeapOnOver]

Its possible that he didnt want to be traded at the time because he thought his team still had a chance to compete. Weren't they competing for a playoff spot at the time of the deadline??

No, lol. We weren't even close to a playoff spot.....

 

[CupsOverCash]

No, lol. We weren't even close to a playoff spot.....

Ok thanks. I couldn't remember.

I think Tavares had a desire to go back to the Islanders but FA is enticing and I'm sure going home to Toronto was something that was always on his mind but I'm sure it was difficult to leave the place he played for his career so far.

 

[Confucius]

Look no further than his tweet the day he announced the trade and the following letter to Islander fans. He said in both it was his lifelong calling to be a Leaf and the decision made itself. He spurned the Isles and he took a lot less to spurn the Sharks for the Leafs. He had no desire to return to the Islanders and the bulk of his play in the second half of the season reflected that.

To add to this is what Mark Hermmann of Newsday dug up Herrmann: Isles fans left on pins and needles:

​

Direct quote no but when a reporter is putting his rear end on the line with an article his editors verify the material. This would have happened here, and Mark is a good reporter with a solid reporting history.

I get it that many Leaf fans won't approach this objectively but it is there in both pieces of writing from him plus the Hermmann article points directly to the obvious. Tavares wanted out and for reasons we could speculate on whether it is spite or trying to maximize whatever contract he got from the Leafs in the end or something entirely different.... What is pretty obvious is he didn't want to get traded and we Islander fans got screwed in the process.

And now he is the most hated ex-Islander in NY history.

if he wanted out, he could have allowed himself to be traded. Nobody would blame him if he didn't sign an extension to with any team that traded for him. Afterall he was only a coup[le of months away from free agency. He would have moved on as a rental. saving himself a lot of grief.

 

[Disgraced Cosmonaut]

It's really simple:
1) GENERAL RULE: A captain cannot tell the media he wants out without suffering majorly and, indirectly, inflicting negative attention on his teammates. JT is no different. Ferreting out whether he will 100% sign (or not) is absolutely, unavoidably, on a GM (Snow) and ownership. When they didn't get him signed in July of '17, they needed to start exploring. They failed miserably and gambled on his loyalty. Why? (see # 2)
2) GENERAL RULE: If you are a member of a team and haven't signed with that team, despite obvious interest from that team, you should not have to say much. People should deduce your willingness to explore and listen to offers. That said, there's no reason to go above and beyond - which JT's bevy of quotes certainly point to - and say you want to finish what you started, you don't want to leave, etc. when you have not signed the contract. You can just say something simple, like, "I'm the Captain and will do my best to see to it that the focus for this team stays on the ice. Love our chances this year. Next question." Or say nothing. People on the Island would be way less mad at JT if he'd just stuck to simple rhetoric instead of acting like he wanted to take part in fixing something that, ultimately, he'd abandon if a certain opportunity came along. I mean, he - did - not - sign - in - 2017. It's very clear he was leaving his options open. Why then act and speak like it's not your intent to explore them? Just be a pro, like countless players before, and say something trite. I mean, if there's one thing JT can be, it's trite. Why not about staying? Maybe because he didn't want to have his life messed with one year prior to free agency. Who knows?

Conclusion: John Tavares is probably not as good or honest a guy as people thought, but he's quite a bit shrewder, too. Maybe he really would've signed with the Isles if Toronto didn't offer him the contract. Who knows? Doesn't matter. He made a series of business moves from start to finish, likely at the advice of his savvy agent. Tip your cap to the agent, acknowledge the process worked out for a UFA, fire your already fired GM (wait.... what?) and move on.

 

[Voodoo Child]

To add to this is what Mark Hermmann of Newsday dug up Herrmann: Isles fans left on pins and needles:

​

Direct quote no but when a reporter is putting his rear end on the line with an article his editors verify the material. This would have happened here, and Mark is a good reporter with a solid reporting history.

No, of course not.

We can't go ruining a great narrative with pesky facts.

Aside from 'But in all his post games and press conferences he said he wants to stay here for life!'

...like 99% of athletes do in post games and press conferences.

And also 'either he told management not to trade him or management said they weren't trading him...'

 

[loyaltotheend]

Tavares wasnt undecided, he just didnt want to be living in a hotel for 3 months, so he lied to islander ownership and played them so he wasnt inconvenienced.

if he was as you say undecided til the last moment, Then how was a 25 year old picture located, professionally retouched, blown up, framed and matted, all on a sunday morning after midnight

come on are you really that gullible ? that kind of work takes days to prepare. dont get me wrong as a free agent he had every right to go where he wanted. but dont buy the sham. We are hockey fans, but we arent imbeciles

ask anyone who has ever planned a wedding how long it took to get their wedding albums, then tell me he was undecided to the last minute, and I'll sell you a bridge in brooklyn.

Conspiracy theories like this crack me up.

I doubt a single star-level UFA leaving will have much influence on other players, unless of course he has immediate success in Toronto.
Otherwise it might put more of a fear factor into GMs, rather than players pov

 

[Dustin]

Conspiracy theories like this crack me up.

I doubt a single star-level UFA leaving will have much influence on other players, unless of course he has immediate success in Toronto.
Otherwise it might put more of a fear factor into GMs, rather than players pov

This thread has certainly gone off the rails a bit but I was actually most interested in discussing how GM's and hockey operations would feel after Tavares leaving. It's generally been accepted that most stars sign with their drafting teams. There have been a few cases but not as many that were as high profile as this.

If you are Dallas or any team really does this give you more incentive to get your player signed earlier. And if the season is a loss let's say, are you thinking more about trading said player at the deadline instead of hoping you can get a deal done?

 

[loyaltotheend]

This thread has certainly gone off the rails a bit but I was actually most interested in discussing how GM's and hockey operations would feel after Tavares leaving. It's generally been accepted that most stars sign with their drafting teams. There have been a few cases but not as many that were as high profile as this.

If you are Dallas or any team really does this give you more incentive to get your player signed earlier. And if the season is a loss let's say, are you thinking more about trading said player at the deadline instead of hoping you can get a deal done?

It would certainly make me think about it if I couldn't get my guy signed.

 

[Dustin]

It would certainly make me think about it if I couldn't get my guy signed.

I feel the same way.

 

[Pelle31]

This thread has certainly gone off the rails a bit but I was actually most interested in discussing how GM's and hockey operations would feel after Tavares leaving. It's generally been accepted that most stars sign with their drafting teams. There have been a few cases but not as many that were as high profile as this.

If you are Dallas or any team really does this give you more incentive to get your player signed earlier. And if the season is a loss let's say, are you thinking more about trading said player at the deadline instead of hoping you can get a deal done?

Well based on the situations in Ottawa and LA, it seems each GM learned a little bit with what happened with the Islanders and Tavares. Both Karlsson and Doughty are heading into their final year, Dorion in Ottawa offered Karlsson a deal which Karlsson turned down and now is looking at trade options. LA and Doughty came to an agreement so they don't have to deal with the what if going into the season. It will be interesting to see how other teams deal with their star players going into the final years of their contract.

 

[Mr Positive]

This thread has certainly gone off the rails a bit but I was actually most interested in discussing how GM's and hockey operations would feel after Tavares leaving. It's generally been accepted that most stars sign with their drafting teams. There have been a few cases but not as many that were as high profile as this.

If you are Dallas or any team really does this give you more incentive to get your player signed earlier. And if the season is a loss let's say, are you thinking more about trading said player at the deadline instead of hoping you can get a deal done?

I'd also say it will change how agents will speak with their clients. Perhaps agents would push for the guaranteed money and for them to get the full 8 years because they get a percentage of it, but they aren't the ones who have to play with the team, or live in that city, or deal with all the other factors that a player has to put up with. So agents want their clients to stay with their drafting teams, and they can back that up by saying that it's what all other superstars do, and that financial security is the major priority for all players when most of your career flies by in a decade. Well now it's not that simple and agents will have to bring up the Tavares situation, and I suspect that Tavares will be an enduring symbol of this because the Leafs will be a good team, and he will continue to be a feel-good story over there. Any agent who tries to argue against that will seem greedy and not looking after their client, and more and more agents will sell themselves to players by advertising themselves as open to that "Tavares route".

 

[A Pointed Stick]

No, of course not.

We can't go ruining a great narrative with pesky facts.

Aside from 'But in all his post games and press conferences he said he wants to stay here for life!'

...like 99% of athletes do in post games and press conferences.

And also 'either he told management not to trade him or management said they weren't trading him...'

The other quote from this was that the organization agreed not to trade him at the deadline. That would imply he asked to not be moved.

Why would he do that?

 

[93LEAFS]

I'd also say it will change how agents will speak with their clients. Perhaps agents would push for the guaranteed money and for them to get the full 8 years because they get a percentage of it, but they aren't the ones who have to play with the team, or live in that city, or deal with all the other factors that a player has to put up with. So agents want their clients to stay with their drafting teams, and they can back that up by saying that it's what all other superstars do, and that financial security is the major priority for all players when most of your career flies by in a decade. Well now it's not that simple and agents will have to bring up the Tavares situation, and I suspect that Tavares will be an enduring symbol of this because the Leafs will be a good team, and he will continue to be a feel-good story over there. Any agent who tries to argue against that will seem greedy and not looking after their client, and more and more agents will sell themselves to players by advertising themselves as open to that "Tavares route".

I'm pretty sure agents actually make a significantly larger % on large-scale endorsement deals (I've heard between 10% and 20%). In general then, it would be in an agent's best financial interest to actually push prestigious clients who could land big deals endorsement wise to markets where they could secure this. Commission for most players contracts is around 4% or less.

In Tavares case, if he lands some major national deals for television ads, like McDavid, Subban and now Matthews has, that is a significant commission for Pat Brisson.

 

[Dustin]

Well based on the situations in Ottawa and LA, it seems each GM learned a little bit with what happened with the Islanders and Tavares. Both Karlsson and Doughty are heading into their final year, Dorion in Ottawa offered Karlsson a deal which Karlsson turned down and now is looking at trade options. LA and Doughty came to an agreement so they don't have to deal with the what if going into the season. It will be interesting to see how other teams deal with their star players going into the final years of their contract.

Agreed. I think players are much too big of an asset to allow to walk anymore. If deals aren't the in place they can't risk losing them for nothing. Especially smaller markets.