Does Perry Need A Strong Finish to His Career to be A HHOF'er?

[DitchMarner]

I wanted to see what some of the HoH users think about the matter.

Before answering, check out this poll/discussion...

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/corey-perry-hhof.2400707/page-2


My thoughts...

Except check this out...


Top five points finishes:


Corey Perry: 2


The following Hockey Hall of Fame members...


Joe Mullen: 0

Pat LaFontaine: 1

Lanny McDonald: 0

Clark Gillies: 0

Cam Neely: 0


Top ten goals finishes:

Corey Perry: 5


The following Hockey Hall of Fame members...


Joe Mullen: 3

Pat LaFontaine: 2

Lanny McDonald: 4

Clark Gillies: 0

Cam Neely: 4


Career points:


Joe Mullen: 1063

Pat LaFontaine: 1013

Lanny McDonald: 1006

Corey Perry: 721

Gillies: 697

Neely: 694


Era-adjusted point totals:


Joe Mullen: 918

Pat LaFontaine: 902

Lanny McDonald: 836

Corey Perry: 804 (prior to this season)

Cam Neely: 629

Clark Gillies: 575




Perry's won his Cup and has won his awards. He has plenty of finishes in the top ten for goals and more finishes in the top five for points than some Hall of Fame members. He merely needs to pad his stats and he'll be indicted into the HHOF. He has already surpassed the careers of Cam Neely and Clark Gillies (mind you, Gillies is an absolutely atrocious inductee).

If Perry averages merely 45 points during the remainder of this season and then for the next three seasons, he'll hit 900 career points, which would put him above Lanny McDonald, Pat LaFontaine and Joe Mullen on an adjusted points scale.


I don't recall ever saying this in response to one of these threads asking if a player will/may be inducted into the HHOF, but in this case, Perry is going to get into the Hockey Hall of Fame whether people like the idea or not.

Perry has five finishes in the top ten for goals.

Doesn't the fact that he finished in the top ten for goals with fewer than 40 goals three times say something about how low-scoring the NHL has been the last several seasons?

Cam Neely wouldn't have been inducted without his '94 season where he scored 50 goals in 44 games. Corey Perry has a signature season of his own ('11) in which he won two major awards. Neely's career goal-per-game average wouldn't have been impressive if he had started his career later on.

Heatley did win the Calder, but that award isn't considered as prestigious as the Hart. Heatley didn't finish higher than 10th in Hart voting. Otherwise, his career really isn't too far off from Perry's, I suppose. But if Perry crosses the 900 point mark, he'll definitely have put considerable distance between himself and Heatley (who finished with 791 points).

I don't think Perry needs to perform at a particularly high level during the remainder of his career to get into the HHOF...

In terms of era-adjusted points, Dave Andreychuk had a whopping three seasons in his 20+ year career where he scored at least 70 points.

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/a/andreda01.html

Dino Ciccarelli had five seasons of 70+ adjusted points and he only finished in the top ten for goals twice in his career and didn't place in the top five for points.

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/c/ciccadi01.html

Lanny McDonald had five seasons of 70+ adjusted points and he never finished in the top ten in the Art Race race.

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/m/mcdonla01.html

Mike Gartner had four seasons of 70+adjusted points and he also finished in the top ten for goals five times in his career.

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/g/gartnmi01.html

Joe Mullen placed in the top ten for goals three times and the top ten for points once (Perry has two top five points finishes) and he had six seasons of 70 or more adjusted points (Perry's fifth and sixth highest scoring seasons era-adjust to 69 and 68 points respectively).

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/m/mullejo01.html


If Perry puts together about three more points seasons and finishes with 900+ career points, he'll be a fairly standard HHOF inductee - not an elite one by any means but not a terrible one, either.

Click to read more...

 

[BlueBull]

I wanted to see what some of the HoH users think about the matter.

Before answering, check out this poll/discussion...


My thoughts...

He will get in but it will be about 20 years after retirement. If he retired now tho he won't get in, he needs at least 100 more points before we consider him Fringe hall of fame.

 

[DitchMarner]

He will get in but it will be about 20 years after retirement. If he retired now tho he won't get in, he needs at least 100 more points before we consider him Fringe hall of fame.

Personally, I think he can get in by stringing together some modestly productive seasons (of about 50 points). I don't think he needs to do much more than that. Another strong playoff run or season where he finishes in the ten in goals would be gravy.

 

[BlueBull]

Personally, I think he can get in by stringing together some modestly productive seasons (of about 50 points). I don't think he needs to do much more than that. Another strong playoff run or season where he finishes in the ten in goals would be gravy.

yes im saying 100 total. but i would say he has 4-5 years left before father time hits and he hangs them up.

 

[Dissonance Jr]

Will be interesting to see if he makes it. Right now, every skater who has ever won the Hart Trophy in the postwar era has gotten into the HHOF — or likely will. I imagine Perry's odds are pretty good, especially if he puts up a couple more decent seasons, but who knows?

(Goalies are a different story. Al Rollins obviously won a very weird Hart, and Theodore basically only had two great seasons. And no idea about Carey Price.)

 

[decma]

Five top 10 finishes in goals is impressive, but I don't think it is (or should be) determinitive.

Tim Kerr had five top 10s in goals.

Kerr 2_3_3_6_9
Perry 1_2_6_9_10

 

[DitchMarner]

Five top 10 finishes in goals is impressive, but I don't think it is (or should be) determinitive.

Tim Kerr had five top 10s in goals.

Kerr 2_3_3_6_9
Perry 1_2_6_9_10

Kerr didn't win a Hart or Stanley Cup, though. He also didn't place in the top five for points once let alone twice.

And Perry's already surpassed his career point total, for those who value CPTs highly.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Corey has 2 elite seasons, with every other season before and after being good to decent.

He hasn't kept up any sort of dominance since his Hart winning year and has been falling off recently. He has, for the most part, been a great goal scorer though.

I don't see him getting in any time soon. His Hart and stanley cup do "dazzle" his resume and image, but he still has a lot more work to do IMO.

 

[seventieslord]

Yes, he will need a very strong finish.

 

[decma]

Kerr didn't win a Hart or Stanley Cup, though. He also didn't place in the top five for points once let alone twice.

And Perry's already surpassed his career point total, for those who value CPTs highly.

Yeah, and I'm sure that will help his chances. My point wasn't that Perry is less likely to make it than Kerr, but that having five top-10 finishes, in and of itself, is not enough. Maybe the Hart and the Cup will add enough, but if his career ended today I don't think he would get in.

 

[BlueBull]

Corey has 2 elite seasons, with every other season before and after being good to decent.

He hasn't kept up any sort of dominance since his Hart winning year and has been falling off recently. He has, for the most part, been a great goal scorer though.

I don't see him getting in any time soon. His Hart and stanley cup do "dazzle" his resume and image, but he still has a lot more work to do IMO.

3 players. that's have many have not made the hall with the hart at hand and are eligible
Tommy Anderson (Set Points Record For Dmen Less Than Great rest of Career)
Al Rollins (One of the worst starters in the early fifties, why did he win the hart?)
Jose Theodore (When the league decides to induct more goalies, He's second in line after Martin Brodeur)
Corey Perry might of had a career better than a guy like Buddy O' Connor or Andy Bathgate.
Corey seems like he should be in solely because let's face it, there's been worse.

 

[GreatGonzo]

3 players. that's have many have not made the hall with the hart at hand and are eligible
Tommy Anderson (Set Points Record For Dmen Less Than Great rest of Career)
Al Rollins (One of the worst starters in the early fifties, why did he win the hart?)
Jose Theodore (When the league decides to induct more goalies, He's second in line after Martin Brodeur)
Corey Perry might of had a career better than a guy like Buddy O' Connor or Andy Bathgate.
Corey seems like he should be in solely because let's face it, there's been worse.

I'm not for inducting a player into the Hall based on the fact that "there's been worse." We shouldn't continue to make the same mistakes just because it's already been done, might as well do it again.

I mean like I said, outside of 2011 and 2014, he has a vey underwhelming career for a future HOF.

I understand the Hart is a very prestigious award, and like you have pointed out....it's rare for a player to not be in the hall while winning it. But Perry hasn't been really all that dominant or consistent.

 

[BlueBull]

I'm not for inducting a player into the Hall based on the fact that "there's been worse." We shouldn't continue to make the same mistakes just because it's already been done, might as well do it again.

I mean like I said, outside of 2011 and 2014, he has a vey underwhelming career for a future HOF.

I understand the Hart is a very prestigious award, and like you have pointed out....it's rare for a player to not be in the hall while winning it. But Perry hasn't been really all that dominant or consistent.

2008 and 2016 were all star years... you make it sound like he had a pretter underwhelming career prior to his 2011 hart win. In terms of points he went from 25, to 44, to 54, to 72, to 76, to 98. he has a good story to his name and if i had the time to waste, i could find highlights of his career.
Note: THATS NOT TO SAY HE IS NOT NOTABLE ENOUGH.

 

[DitchMarner]

Yes, he will need a very strong finish.

To be a strong inductee, sure. To make it altogether? I don't think he should.

Really, what Lanny McDonald have over him?

McDonald also had one season that really stood out. He scored 66 goals in 1983. His adjusted goal total for that season according to hockey reference is 53 goals. Maybe that's under-selling it, but it obviously can't be taken at face value, either. His best season pales in comparison to Perry's 2011 season.

McDonald also had two finishes in the top ten for points and both were lower than Perry's best two finishes in the points race.

Lanny finished in the top ten for goals four times. Perry's finished in the top ten for goals five times.

He had somewhat of an edge to his game. So does Perry.

McDonald's playoff production wasn't exactly stellar for his era: 84 points in 117 games. Perry has 89 playoff points in 114 games. Perry's had five playoff runs where he's scored 11 or more points; McDonald had three playoff runs where he scored at least ten points (including a notable one where he had 17 points in only nine games). He had three playoff OT winners; Perry has four. They've both won a Cup.

Lanny scored just 67 points in his last three NHL seasons and still got in.

Perry has the superior international resume. I don't know much about LM's junior career, but I know Perry's was outstanding.

Perry is the third highest scorer from his draft class, which is generally considered one of the strongest ever.

What does he realistically need to do to surpass Lanny McDonald's hockey career?

McDonald is a guy who generally isn't cited as a particularly weak inductee (at least from what I've seen). People seem to usually bring up Housley, Andreychuk, Duff, Ciccarelli, Nieuwendyk, Federko and even Gartner as questionable/weak inductees more often. Obviously Gillies isn't even worth bringing up here. I'm not sure Neely's career is much if any better than Perry's at this point in time.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

3 players. that's have many have not made the hall with the hart at hand and are eligible
Tommy Anderson (Set Points Record For Dmen Less Than Great rest of Career)
Al Rollins (One of the worst starters in the early fifties, why did he win the hart?)
Jose Theodore (When the league decides to induct more goalies, He's second in line after Martin Brodeur)
Corey Perry might of had a career better than a guy like Buddy O' Connor or Andy Bathgate.
Corey seems like he should be in solely because let's face it, there's been worse.

Bathgate is a different calibre player. He placed in the top five in scoring nine years in a row (over that span he was 2nd in the league in scoring, barely behind Howe). He retired as the 6th highest scorer in history, and earned a non-trivial number of votes for the Hart four times.

 

[Michael Farkas]

It's a really weak case given his career and how it is trending...I don't even comprehend what 100 more points would do to a career...so if he played for five more years at 20 points a piece, then he is better off? Hardly, that probably keeps him further out...

I also don't get comparing him to players we think don't belong, that just cements the point further.

Perry doesn't do a lot for me...one-dimensional goal scoring winger with a couple HOF level seasons but more HOVG or worse seasons...not much of a playmaker, benefited a lot from a better player on his line Getzlaf (is he in?), not a defensive player at all really...has a lot of rabblerousing to his game, which is good...but I don't know, I don't see a great case...

That Hart is pretty weak on an all-time scale...it doesn't carry a ton of weight for me...there was one standout player that year and some 4th line center popped his head off and robbed us of seeing a maybe historical season...Perry won an MVP for scoring 20 goals in the last 20 games or whatever...he wasn't the best player on his own team if Getzlaf plays 80...

 

[DitchMarner]

I'm not for inducting a player into the Hall based on the fact that "there's been worse." We shouldn't continue to make the same mistakes just because it's already been done, might as well do it again.

I mean like I said, outside of 2011 and 2014, he has a vey underwhelming career for a future HOF.

I understand the Hart is a very prestigious award, and like you have pointed out....it's rare for a player to not be in the hall while winning it. But Perry hasn't been really all that dominant or consistent.

Perry has 723 career points.

Assuming Perry ends up with more points than Gaborik (794), Heatley (791), Kovalchuk (818) and Nash (772) and stays ahead of Bergeron (675), Carter (653) and Pavelski (636), he may end up trailing only Spezza, Eric Staal, Getzlaf, Ovechkin and Malkin in career points out of the players drafted in the 2000-2004 drafts.

I think he should have a better shot at HHOF induction than Staal or Spezza even if he winds up with fewer points than one or both. He will have a better shot at being inducted than Gaborik, Heatley and Nash and probably Kovalchuk as well.

Out of all the forwards drafted between 2000 and 2004, how many have a better shot at getting into the HHOF than Perry?

I would say the only definite ones are Ovechkin and Malkin. Based on their current trajectories, Getzlaf will likely end up with a better career than Perry. Bergeron may or may not. I would think at least five forwards from those five drafts will be inducted and there's a good chance Perry will be one of them.

 

[DitchMarner]

It's a really weak case given his career and how it is trending...I don't even comprehend what 100 more points would do to a career...so if he played for five more years at 20 points a piece, then he is better off? Hardly, that probably keeps him further out...

I also don't get comparing him to players we think don't belong, that just cements the point further.

Perry doesn't do a lot for me...one-dimensional goal scoring winger with a couple HOF level seasons but more HOVG or worse seasons...not much of a playmaker, benefited a lot from a better player on his line Getzlaf (is he in?), not a defensive player at all really...has a lot of rabblerousing to his game, which is good...but I don't know, I don't see a great case...

That Hart is pretty weak on an all-time scale...it doesn't carry a ton of weight for me...there was one standout player that year and some 4th line center popped his head off and robbed us of seeing a maybe historical season...Perry won an MVP for scoring 20 goals in the last 20 games or whatever...he wasn't the best player on his own team if Getzlaf plays 80...

I don't think averaging 20 points per season during the rest of his career will put him in the HHOF, but three or four seasons of about 50 points would give him a good shot considering Heatley is done, Nash is trending downward himself and Spezza and Eric Staal don't have strong cases themselves. Some forwards from those early to mid 2000s are getting in and they won't just be Ovie and Malkin.

 

[Nick Hansen]

Dany Heatley seems like a good comparable. Five times in top 10 goals, if I've counted it right. I don't there is any substantial difference between these two, if anything I liked Heatley more. Obviously his career is over and Perry can build on his case but...if one is in, the other should be too.

Hart and Richard is strong on Perry's case of course...but was he really all that different from Heatley?

 

[Albatros]

Perry hasn't looked like a future HHoF candidate until now, and I doubt that will change as he regresses.

 

[Ducks in a row]

Dany Heatley seems like a good comparable. Five times in top 10 goals, if I've counted it right. I don't there is any substantial difference between these two, if anything I liked Heatley more. Obviously his career is over and Perry can build on his case but...if one is in, the other should be too.

Hart and Richard is strong on Perry's case of course...but was he really all that different from Heatley?

He has won a lot more helping him to be a member of the Triple Gold Club

 

[quoipourquoi]

Dude is in. He's won everything and has a Hart. Even in a down year, he tied the record for three overtime goals in a single playoff. There's just too many bullet points.

 

[GreatGonzo]

2008 and 2016 were all star years... you make it sound like he had a pretter underwhelming career prior to his 2011 hart win. In terms of points he went from 25, to 44, to 54, to 72, to 76, to 98. he has a good story to his name and if i had the time to waste, i could find highlights of his career.
Note: THATS NOT TO SAY HE IS NOT NOTABLE ENOUGH.

I mean I don't see what screams HOF outside of those 2 years....again, great stats...but what is HOF about them? Like I said before, very inconsistent.

2008 and 2016 weren't "all star" years in the way I'm talking about....not the game.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Perry has 723 career points.

Assuming Perry ends up with more points than Gaborik (794), Heatley (791), Kovalchuk (818) and Nash (772) and stays ahead of Bergeron (675), Carter (653) and Pavelski (636), he may end up trailing only Spezza, Eric Staal, Getzlaf, Ovechkin and Malkin in career points out of the players drafted in the 2000-2004 drafts.

I think he should have a better shot at HHOF induction than Staal or Spezza even if he winds up with fewer points than one or both. He will have a better shot at being inducted than Gaborik, Heatley and Nash and probably Kovalchuk as well.

Out of all the forwards drafted between 2000 and 2004, how many have a better shot at getting into the HHOF than Perry?

I would say the only definite ones are Ovechkin and Malkin. Based on their current trajectories, Getzlaf will likely end up with a better career than Perry. Bergeron may or may not. I would think at least five forwards from those five drafts will be inducted and there's a good chance Perry will be one of them.

I mean in terms of "HOF talent" that's sort of a weak draft to go off of. Most are/were great players, but most aren't going to be HOFers...

 

[DitchMarner]

I mean in terms of "HOF talent" that's sort of a weak draft to go off of. Most are/were great players, but most aren't going to be HOFers...

I think we can at expect at least five forwards who were drafted in the 2000-2004 drafts to be inducted. I wouldn't expect the HHOF to induct fewer forwards from those drafts. That's an average of only one forward per draft.

I wouldn't call guys like Spezza, Nash, Staal, Gaborik and Heatley tremendous competition. Kovalchuk would have had a better career than Perry if he had stayed in the NHL. I think his sudden jump to the KHL will hurt his chances. Heatley washed out early. Even if Perry doesn't have him beat yet, he should if he can put together some more reasonably productive seasons.