Line Combos: Does Nylander at 3C solve depth issues?

[Trapper]

Way better than the 'trading them away and watch them break out' option.

They already broke out.
Unless you expect Marner to turn into a 120 point player and Matthews scoring 60-70 goals.
They probably already are where they are with poor D and lack of depth.
Like Phil Kessel. What he was doing at 22/23 he wasn’t suddenly another 40 points better.
And if you don’t have a team how much does it matter. All 4, 1st round exit. 3 and better balanced team? You decide.

 

[egd27]

Spreading yourself thin though could make the lines less impactful as a whole, which means we aren't going to be getting elite impact from our top-6 AND we won't have the depth to make it up.

The elite impact of our Top 6 wasn't exactly on display during the CBJ series.

 

[Papi 4 Hart]

Nylander is absolutely brutal at center. He is way better at wing. He should be an emergency injury replacement case only. His move to center in game 7 ultimately cost us the game that line was brutal.

 

[Gabriel426]

They already broke out.
Unless you expect Marner to turn into a 120 point player and Matthews scoring 60-70 goals.
They probably already are where they are with poor D and lack of depth.
Like Phil Kessel. What he was doing at 22/23 he wasn’t suddenly another 40 points better.
And if you don’t have a team how much does it matter. All 4, 1st round exit. 3 and better balanced team? You decide.

Agree with you.
To me, doesn’t matter if they all get 40more points, if they can’t get it done in the playoffs, that’s another wasted season.

 

[ULF_55]

Mikheyev-Matthews-Nylander
Hyman-Tavares-Marner
Barabanov-Kerfoot-Spezza
Engvall-Brooks-Rodrigues

 

[ToneDog]

With talk of Willie playing #3C I found this take interesting:

With everything being pretty much equal Mike Johnson keeps Kerfoot over AJ because Kerfoot is a C and can play wing and the PK.

The numbers guy Mike Kelly keeps AJ because he thinks Kerfoot is a better winger than a C. In fact he thinks Kerfoot is not a very good C. I think he is FOS but anybody who agrees with him might hate the Kadri deal a bit more after listening to him.

Kelly on why he would keep Johnsson over Kerfoot

 

[kb]

They already broke out.
Unless you expect Marner to turn into a 120 point player and Matthews scoring 60-70 goals.
They probably already are where they are with poor D and lack of depth.
Like Phil Kessel. What he was doing at 22/23 he wasn’t suddenly another 40 points better.
And if you don’t have a team how much does it matter. All 4, 1st round exit. 3 and better balanced team? You decide.

Yeah,, this is horse poop from beginning to end. Sorry. 22 year old kids are done getting better? Show me even one. Please.

Don't lower yourself to the level of the others. I expect much better from you.

 

[mapleleaf979]

I wonder if Keefe learned from Game 7. Stacking 1 line was a panic move, awful decision. Tortarella had to worry about 1 line.

Nylander @ 3c in that game 7, he was awful. Nylander is a liability and losing his man when he is playing C is a much bigger mistake than on the wing. U also can not pay 6.96 million for a 3c. I thought Mike Kelly was right regarding Kerfoot at 3C and that he doesnt like him. Kerfoot is over matched physically and takes dumb penalties as a 3c. Imo, Leafs need a physical, defensive center @ 3c to mix the dynamic up front.

 

[Buds17]

With talk of Willie playing #3C I found this take interesting:

With everything being pretty much equal Mike Johnson keeps Kerfoot over AJ because Kerfoot is a C and can play wing and the PK.

The numbers guy Mike Kelly keeps AJ because he thinks Kerfoot is a better winger than a C. In fact he thinks Kerfoot is not a very good C. I think he is FOS but anybody who agrees with him might hate the Kadri deal a bit more after listening to him.

Kelly on why he would keep Johnsson over Kerfoot

While the degree of effectiveness could be argued, Kerfoot has at least played at centre. Not sure the team would choose to retain Johnsson over Kerfoot even if both were viewed as wingers.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I wonder if Keefe learned from Game 7. Stacking 1 line was a panic move, awful decision. Tortarella had to worry about 1 line.

Nylander @ 3c in that game 7, he was awful. Nylander is a liability and losing his man when he is playing C is a much bigger mistake than on the wing. U also can not pay 6.96 million for a 3c. I thought Mike Kelly was right regarding Kerfoot at 3C and that he doesnt like him. Kerfoot is over matched physically and takes dumb penalties as a 3c. Imo, Leafs need a physical, defensive center @ 3c to mix the dynamic up front.

I doubt he learned anything from game 7

 

[Wafflewhipper]

This thread asks do you want more of the same all skill composition. No I don’t and 4 years of not advancing with it is why

 

[cj19]

I would rather try Marner at centre! His great vision & determination on the back check could make him a Gilmour type centre, Marner played some centre in the OHL. Try Marner at centre with a shoot first player like Robertson to give the the leafs a more balanced scoring attack. Marner would still get his ice time being on the pk &pp and could be double shifted with AM if the Leafs are down by a goal etc.

 

[Dekes For Days]

This doesn't strengthen our depth. It just makes every line less effective at their job for no reason, and breaks up valuable chemistry.

Also, Tavares is a center, and likely will be for a long time, if not forever. Nylander is a better winger.

 

[Trapper]

Yeah,, this is horse poop from beginning to end. Sorry. 22 year old kids are done getting better? Show me even one. Please.

Don't lower yourself to the level of the others. I expect much better from you.

They can certainly improve away from the puck, more intense and defense but how much better do you think Marner and his 90 point season is going to be?

Chances are him exceeding that at 11 mil is very unlikely. MacKinnon went from his his 60 points to 90 points maturing but even then it’s unlikely he’s going 120 - more points on another level after that. Even Kucherov went up but came back down.

I expect Marner to be around an 80-90 point winger but you guys expect way to much on the improvement level. But understandable considering people here are good with the structure. They have to be close to all Hart Trophy winners with no depth.

 

[AvroArrow]

7M on a "3C" no it doesn't. He's not suited for C either

 

[meefer]

No surprise that the cap is tight, even more so if the Leafs do in fact sign AP. I know a lot of posters here have concerns about the bottom 6 depth but would a shuffling of the players we already have solve that issue?

I know it has been discussed in other threads but lets get it all in one place.

With 3 strong Cs and at least 1 good winger per line, the other winger can take a bit of a hit and the Leafs can still ice a balanced lineup.

XXXX - Matthews - Marner
Robertson - Tavares - XXXX
Mikheyev - Nylander - Hyman

The XXXXs likely have to be filled by a combination of league minimum vets (Maroon?) or players in the system (Barabanov?)

Good thread! I'd also suggest by trades. I'd like to see Crouse with Matthews and Marner, for protection and to clog up the front of the net. I'd also like to see Virtanen, would need to get his rights somehow.

I think if you switch Robertson and Mikheyev, that would be an excellent basis for the top 3 lines. Each of those 3rd liners are puck hounds with speed, and I could see that causing fits for the opposition. It would probably be the best third line in a long time.

In my dreams, I'd like to see Crouse with M&M, Robertson with Tavares and Hyman (two respected pros leading the kid to who he can be), and Mikheyev with Nylander and Virtanen. Some greasiness on all three lines. A shooter on all three lines. Talent at C on all three lines.
Time to go to sleep with a smile.

 

[DarkKnight]

Bill isn’t a center. And Kerfoot is only a real option because we can’t afford better to be honest. That’s the trade off.

 

[Dekes For Days]

They already broke out.
Unless you expect Marner to turn into a 120 point player and Matthews scoring 60-70 goals.

There is no reason to think Matthews/Marner have hit their peaks, and yes, 120+ points/60+ goals is entirely possible, if not likely. Pre-prime, they've already hit ES and PP rates that would result in 60+ goals and 110+ points, if given proper TOI consistent with other superstars.

Matthews/Marner's pre-prime abilities/production are comparable to the prime/peak of many other superstars, so I understand the confusion, but like pretty much everybody else, they are not done growing at 22, and what we've seen in terms of raw production is not even not even a full reflection of their current abilities.

These are not unachievable marks for these players, and it would be foolish to watch them do it on other teams.

Like Phil Kessel. What he was doing at 22/23 he wasn’t suddenly another 40 points better.

Kessel wasn't as good of a player as Matthews/Marner, but Kessel put up a 64 point pace in his age 22 and 23 seasons. He was PPG+ between 24-27, despite his PP TOI/GP going down.

And if you don’t have a team how much does it matter.

We do have a team. A pretty good one. A better one than if we threw away our best players pre-prime.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Marner’s been incredibly sheltered with veteran support his entire career. Wouldn’t mind seeing him on any line as the alpha between two lesser players.

Until this most recent half year with Matthews, Marner has been the best player on every line he's ever played on.

 

[seanlinden]

In the regular season -- I think Nylander can be a passable 3C... in the playoffs when you really need that 3rd guy, no.

That being said, it was posted on the main board -- Nylander for Domi.

If you can get Domi at something like $5m x 4, I think that's something you have to seriously consider. Domi is a much more versatile player who can either slot in as a 3C, or top 6 winger.

Clear $2m in cap space as well.

 

[Dekes For Days]

That being said, it was posted on the main board -- Nylander for Domi.
If you can get Domi at something like $5m x 4, I think that's something you have to seriously consider. Domi is a much more versatile player who can either slot in as a 3C, or top 6 winger.

Domi would be a horrible return for Nylander. We'd have to deal with Ferris again, and Domi is overvalued and will be overpaid for his inflated 2018-2019 year that he's not going to come close to again.

 

[seanlinden]

Domi would be a horrible return for Nylander, even aside from having to deal with Ferris again. He's overvalued and will be overpaid for his inflated 2018-2019 year.

Like I said, it depends on the contract you can get him for.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Like I said, it depends on the contract you can get him for.

No, it doesn't. That is not nearly enough for a far superior player, regardless of his cap hit (which is not likely to be good).

 

[Mess]

The effect of shuffling lines is the equivalent of shuffling chairs on the Titanic where $11 mil AAV contracts are the equivalent of the iceberg.

If you have an internal salary cap problem and its sinking your teams competitiveness than shuffling lines doesn't solve the problem.

If the question was does Nylander playing RHD on the 1st pairing opposite Reilly fix things if he were capable, then at least we would be closer to identifying where we're taking on water and why the team is sinking in the standings.

Keeping Kadri as your #3C and trading Nylander for a top 4 dman would have been an attempt to miss the iceberg at least.

 

[ToneDog]

The effect of shuffling lines is the equivalent of shuffling chairs on the Titanic where $11 mil AAV contracts are the equivalent of the iceberg.

If you have an internal salary cap problem and its sinking your teams competitiveness than shuffling lines doesn't solve the problem.

If the question was does Nylander playing RHD on the 1st pairing opposite Reilly fix things if he were capable, than at least we would be closer to identifying where we're taking on water and why the team is sinking in the standings.

Might have to start throwing a "heavy" player or two overboard to stay afloat.