Line Combos: Does Nylander at 3C solve depth issues?

Dekes For Days

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Sep 24, 2018
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then at least we would be closer to identifying where we're taking on water and why the team is sinking in the standings.
Many of us have already properly identified what's happening, supported by endless facts, and it has had nothing to do with Nylander, Kadri, or our cap structure.
Keeping Kadri as your #3C and trading Nylander for a top 4 dman would have been an attempt to miss the iceberg at least.
That would have been accelerating into the iceberg, when you had time to turn around and avoid it.
 
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RebuildYear5

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Sep 24, 2020
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Trading a 23 year to keep a 29 year old is plain stupid. But then I consider the source.....

But signing Tavares for double Kadris cap hit dosent sound stupid?

Facts are we still traded away a 24 year old in Kapanen for nothing, and in the near future one of the big 3...all so we could have Tavares lol

We also missed out on tanking again and potentially having another two top-5 picks.

Kyle let shit hit the fan when he basically gave Kadri away because we had Tavares for a pipe dream (Barrie & Kerfoot)

Why cant we accept the fact Lou and Kyle closed our window of opportunity to 2-3 years....then be prepared for possibly losing one of you're favorite players for nothing, and not one playoff series win.
 
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RebuildYear5

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Also
Trading a 23 year to keep a 29 year old is plain stupid. But then I consider the source.....

Also do you honestly believe if Tavares didnt sign here Marner & Matthew's still sign similar deals....pft we shot ourselves in the foot multiple times
 

Wafflewhipper

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I would rather try Marner at centre! His great vision & determination on the back check could make him a Gilmour type centre, Marner played some centre in the OHL. Try Marner at centre with a shoot first player like Robertson to give the the leafs a more balanced scoring attack. Marner would still get his ice time being on the pk &pp and could be double shifted with AM if the Leafs are down by a goal etc.
I almost posted a lineup with Marner playing center last year and changed my mind because i wanted Matthews/ Marner together for a look. Matthews can score with any linemates. Marner and a couple power forward wingers would be a interesting look.
 

aingefan

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Also


Also do you honestly believe if Tavares didnt sign here Marner & Matthew's still sign similar deals....pft we shot ourselves in the foot multiple times
I believe it.
There are external comparables too.
Heck, locking up Matty quick and tidy in-season was a good bit of work that goes under appreciated in my mind.
 

Havoc

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Jul 25, 2009
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He's never looked good at center. He's not even remotely aware enough defensively to play up the middle.

I don't want Nylander at center. It's not the right time for that. Need Nylander as a winger in the top 6.

However, how would we know if he's good or bad if not given a fair chance to figure it out? Nylander has a high ceiling and is gifted with hockey IQ. I'm not betting against him if Keefe put him at center. Sure he'll make a lot of mistakes at first. That's how it goes. By second half of season he'll be flying.

At 21, he looked better at C than Kadri at 21. Both bad but the point is Kadri is now a good C.

Nylander needs a stretch where he's allowed to make mistakes and learn. Unfortunately, we can't afford that in our current window. Nylander might never get the chance to develop as a C. Not sure if I can think of any centers that became above average at their position in a circumstance like this.
 

Menzinger

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In the regular season -- I think Nylander can be a passable 3C... in the playoffs when you really need that 3rd guy, no.

That being said, it was posted on the main board -- Nylander for Domi.

If you can get Domi at something like $5m x 4, I think that's something you have to seriously consider. Domi is a much more versatile player who can either slot in as a 3C, or top 6 winger.

Clear $2m in cap space as well.

Nylander also has proven chemistry with the teams top two centres while Domi is a question marknin that regard.

A 5 mil 3c runs into the same problem that Kadri did. Under the current structure it becomes a waste to spend that much money on a depth line when the team has two 1st lines that eat up all the prime icetime (this is also the reason why Nykander at 3c is a waste)

Domi also just fired his agent to hire Ferris, so I think hes looking for a pretty big pay raise
 
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seanlinden

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Nylander also has proven chemistry with the teams top two centres while Domi is a question marknin that regard.

A 5 mil 3c runs into the same problem that Kadri did. Under the current structure it becomes a waste to spend that much money on a depth line when the team has two 1st lines that eat up all the prime icetime (this is also the reason why Nykander at 3c is a waste)

Domi also just fired his agent to hire Ferris, so I think hes looking for a pretty big pay raise

There was nothing wrong with having Kadri at 3rd line C -- other than his idiotic suspensions. It actually made our team nearly impossible to match up against.

When you then consider that the Leafs would still have Marner, Hyman, Robertson, Mikheyev, Johnsson, and theoretically how easy it is to find winger depth for cheap, I think it's a structure/strategy that the leafs should strongly consider.

Of course this is all dependent on Domi being a $5m 3rd line C with term -- somethign that may not be realistic with Ferris.
 
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Menzinger

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There was nothing wrong with having Kadri at 3rd line C -- other than his idiotic suspensions. It actually made our team nearly impossible to match up against.

When you then consider that the Leafs would still have Marner, Hyman, Robertson, Mikheyev, Johnsson, and theoretically how easy it is to find winger depth for cheap, I think it's a structure/strategy that the leafs should strongly consider.

The problem is if you want to give giys like Matthews/Tavares their proper icetime - 18-20ish min a night, and that the 4th line to play an average of say 9-10, that really cuts down how much icetime becomes available for that 3rd line.

Its a watse to have a pime asset there if youre going to limit their opportunities for 5v5. And the alternative becomes tske away icetime from Matthews, which doesn't strike me as effective either.
 
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seanlinden

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The problem is if you want to give giys like Matthews/Tavares their proper icetime - 18-20ish min a night, and that the 4th line to play an average of say 9-10, that really cuts down how much icetime becomes available for that 3rd line.

Its a watse to have a pime asset there if youre going to limit their opportunities for 5v5. And the alternative becomes tske away icetime from Matthews, which doesn't strike me as effective either.

The ice time argument is flawed, to be perfectly honest.

Games are not 60 minutes 5 on 5. There is powerplay, there is PK. Matthews & Tavares are going to be out on a top PP most of the time together. Domi would be a great player to have on a 2nd powerplay unit.

In 2018-19, Tavares saw 19:05 in ice time. Matthews 18:33. Kadri was 16:11.

That being said, look at the ES TOI:
Tavares 16:18, Matthews 15:57, Kadri 13:35

Plus, I think with Domi, you don't view him as strictly a #3C like Kadri was... I think it varies between him & Spezza depending on your opponent.
 

Dekes For Days

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But signing Tavares for double Kadris cap hit dosent sound stupid?
No, because Tavares is a way, way better player than Kadri.
Facts are we still traded away a 24 year old in Kapanen for nothing
We didn't trade him for nothing. We got good value.
and in the near future one of the big 3
You've seen the future, have you? Even in a worst case scenario, that's still a net gain.
We also missed out on tanking again and potentially having another two top-5 picks.
There was no more possibility of effective "tanking" when we drafted Marner and Matthews. It would just be wasted middling years.
Kyle let shit hit the fan when he basically gave Kadri away
He did not give Kadri away. He got good value, and addressed needs.
Also do you honestly believe if Tavares didnt sign here Marner & Matthew's still sign similar deals....
100%, because their contracts had nothing to do with UFA contracts. They have their own post-ELC comparables.
 
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Wafflewhipper

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In the regular season -- I think Nylander can be a passable 3C... in the playoffs when you really need that 3rd guy, no.

That being said, it was posted on the main board -- Nylander for Domi.

If you can get Domi at something like $5m x 4, I think that's something you have to seriously consider. Domi is a much more versatile player who can either slot in as a 3C, or top 6 winger.

Clear $2m in cap space as well.
If Montreal wanted Nylander. I wouldn’t blink an eye if Gallagher and their First,16th 2020 and Ben Chiarot was the deal.
I think you under value Nylander lol but maybe i over value him ha
 
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RebuildYear5

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No, because Tavares is a way, way better player than Kadri.

We didn't trade him for nothing. We got good value.

You've seen the future, have you? Even in a worst case scenario, that's still a net gain.

There was no more possibility of effective "tanking" when we drafted Marner and Matthews. It would just be wasted middling years.

He did not give Kadri away. He got good value, and addressed needs.

100%, because their contracts had nothing to do with UFA contracts. They have their own post-ELC comparables.

Tavares is not way way better.
We have two players that are lightyears ahead of Tavares and that's Marner and Mattews...are teams stacked on offense so technically Tavares is worse in the sense he cost you more cap with less defensive roles.

Good value lmfao we might get a 3rd for Kerfoot.

Tavares contract set the marker for the young guns do you understand how buisness works lmfao, not to mention we would of drafted another two top 5 picks pushing Matthew's and Marner to preform at there best or possibly take less money because now we have the big 6.
 

Menzinger

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The ice time argument is flawed, to be perfectly honest.

Games are not 60 minutes 5 on 5. There is powerplay, there is PK. Matthews & Tavares are going to be out on a top PP most of the time together. Domi would be a great player to have on a 2nd powerplay unit.

In 2018-19, Tavares saw 19:05 in ice time. Matthews 18:33. Kadri was 16:11.

That being said, look at the ES TOI:
Tavares 16:18, Matthews 15:57, Kadri 13:35

Plus, I think with Domi, you don't view him as strictly a #3C like Kadri was... I think it varies between him & Spezza depending on your opponent.

Kadri noticed declined in that 3rd line role though, especially in terms of production.

I just don't see the point of downgrading from Nylander here for a quesrikn mark in terms of fit, especially if half the time you'd use the player less often half the time.
 
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RebuildYear5

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You dont sign a guy with half the skill and expect you're top players to give a F@*^ that's bad management when you're all being paid for the same services.
 

Dekes For Days

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Tavares is not way way better.
Yeah, he is. They are not even comparable players.
Good value lmfao we might get a 3rd for Kerfoot.
1 year of a top-3 defenseman at 50% retention, and 4 years of a younger, cheaper 3C for 3 years of a 2C is good value, and addressed needs of ours that were essentially impossible to fill otherwise. Kadri's 2018-2019 impact was replaced by Kerfoot at ES, and Nylander on the PP.
 
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RebuildYear5

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Yeah, he is. They are not even comparable players.

1 year of a top-3 defenseman at 50% retention, and 4 years of a younger, cheaper 3C for 3 years of a 2c is good value, and addressed needs of ours that were essentially impossible to fill otherwise. Kadri's 2018-2019 impact was replaced by Kerfoot at ES, and Nylander on the PP.

If you're comparing stats and all that bs it's not valuable if you dont watch or look at who they played with.

Tavavres always averaged more ice time and Powerplay, not to mention better linemates that basically just set him up for open net bangers.

Kadri on the other hand was shafted in Toronto from day 1, proved he was better then Bozak and all the other plebs that were pushed ahead of him.

Best he got was 3rd line roles with scrub call ups or Colton Orr.

Not once was he surrounded by key players on a constant basis.

Colorado did just that and look how he preformed this year in the playoffs compared to shitty Tavares.

But hey he's wayyyyyy better.
 

Dekes For Days

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Tavares always averaged more ice time and Powerplay, not to mention better linemates that basically just set him up for open net bangers.
Kadri on the other hand was shafted in Toronto from day 1, proved he was better then Bozak and all the other plebs that were pushed ahead of him.
Best he got was 3rd line roles with scrub call ups or Colton Orr.
That's not true. Kadri was given a top-6 role for years. He got to play with Marner and Nylander at times while he was here at ES, and he played on the #1 PP unit. Tavares did not just score "open net bangers"; he's one of the better goal-scorers of his generation. Let's account for the ice time differences:

ES P/60, past 3 years

Tavares: 2.64
Kadri: 1.94

PP P/60, past 3 years

Tavares: 6.33
Kadri: 4.70

Not even remotely comparable. Tavares is on a whole other level; a level he has proven for almost a decade, through all kinds of linemate quality. Kadri had 1 good year at ES, and 2 good years on the PP getting carried by Marner, but even that puts him at a level that doesn't even match Tavares' down years.
Colorado did just that and look how he preformed this year in the playoffs compared to shitty Tavares.
Colorado didn't face the #1 defensive team in the league and 0.952 goaltending, and it's funny you mention PP time, because Kadri got pumped full of PP time in the regular season and playoffs this year to inflate his production.
 
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jaric1862

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If they get Pietrangelo

Hyman-Matthews-Marner
Mikheyev-Tavares-Nylander
Robertson-Thornton-Barabanov
Brooks/UFA-Engvall-Simmonds

Rielly-Pietrangelo
Muzzin-Holl
Lehtonen-Dermott

Andersen-Campbell


Putting Nylander at 3C defeats the purpose of having him at all
 
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gabeliscious

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Jan 8, 2009
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If they get Pietrangelo

Hyman-Matthews-Marner
Mikheyev-Tavares-Nylander
Robertson-Thornton-Barabanov
Brooks/UFA-Engvall-Simmonds

Rielly-Pietrangelo
Muzzin-Holl
Lehtonen-Dermott

Andersen-Campbell


Putting Nylander at 3C defeats the purpose of having him at all

I dont think we have cap space for your roster even if we assume we take back zero salary for kerfoot and johnsson whicj given the current situation is probably extremly unlikely.
 

thewave

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Jun 17, 2011
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JT should just try wing for Nylander. Unlike many in this thread, I like Nylander as a C.
 

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