Does MLSE actually care about the fans?

[Bullseye]

To be honest, I don't care if they care about us. I just want them to put a winning product on the ice. They're not in a business driven by customer service, they're driven by the product. If the Leafs win a Cup and news comes out that MLSE secretly hates all it's fans I wouldn't give a hoot!

I agree but they are not in a business driven by the product.

MLSE built a temple and we all are the faithful. It's a religion. Otherwise a team that is out of the playoffs for 10 years would be bankrupt. But it's the opposite - they are the worst team but the wealthiest franchise. We are the Faithful. We make them rich. It's a religion.

 

[thewave]

To be honest, I don't care if they care about us. I just want them to put a winning product on the ice. They're not in a business driven by customer service, they're driven by the product. If the Leafs win a Cup and news comes out that MLSE secretly hates all it's fans I wouldn't give a hoot!

What if what I am saying is true. The attention we lend them online and othe generates more revenues for them than that of a serious winner. What if I ask? Would you care more then? Would you care more knowing that the board and shareholders intervene based on what I am saying is possibly factual?

Would it not be plausible then that JFJs alleged instructions from the owners to not rebuild are based on a scenario like this? Perhaps that was the argument with Burke? With Tim L.

People of high pride and dignity in high places within this organization leave or are expelled.

Think about the media. Owned by shareholders pumping Wendell Clarkson etc, for some reason he was the best product available in that years UFA. We got him! For an unbelievable price! It was big news! An even bigger failure and talking point ever since.

This is really getting shady the more you piece it together.

 

[yubbers]

You give them too much credit.

They want to win. They just don't get hockey. And think because of their other life successes and the fact they own a billion dollar team, they know everything.

Let your hockey people hockey ffs!
Focus on ****** consumers. That you are good at.

 

[Mess]

I don't even believe you believe this yourself. I would ask are you affiliated in any way with MLSE? You don't need to answer obviously. My points are concise, they are even apparent.

I don't hate the leafs. I hate the people they work for and what I feel is becoming a very obvious case of a greedy corporate rat extracting the money from its products fans based on lies, false hope and broken promises.

Every time and Leafs GM goes to ownership and says we need to blow this up and draft rebuild and the Owners say "NO" that is done in the best interest of the fans and caring for the on-ice product or entertainment purposes.

Tanking = fan suffering with expected losses, while re-tooling and spending to the Cap ceiling = caring from and ownership point of view.

PS. I have no affiliation with Bell/Rogers or MLSE owners.

 

[Al14]

If they care they would stop with the quick fixes and try what the fans want..... Some good ol drafting and proper development.

They'd also reduce ticket prices, as a gesture to retain the fans, while doing the COMPLETE REBUILD!

 

[Northern Dancer]

The fans pay the salaries and MLSE. We all know that.

But has the machine gotten so big that MLSE does not care about the individual fan?

There is only one way to force MLSE to put a better product on the ice and that is mass boycott. We know that will never happen because of the sheer size of the fan base, which has been estimated at over 20,000,000 world wide.

So MLSE knows this, and MLSE has a license to make money. Their revenue for last season was 190,000,000. MLSE itself is worth over a billion and a half dollars with the Leafs coming in at a billion of it.

Everyone knows the team makes much more money in the playoffs to the tune of 1.5 to 2 million per game. But does MLSE even care about that? That is chump change to them.

You can't be serious a good play-off run would bring 20-25% more revenue than your 190 million above.

So we come to "effort vs playoff" money. It is just my personal opinion, but I think MLSE has the mindset that they are going to rake in the money anyway, keep the team spending to the cap and keep management costs down. So, it is not worth the effort to put a playoff team together. The management costs are essentially the Playoff cost offset.

Leafs have one of if not largest from-office teams in the NHL. There is no cost savings, it is a huge expense.

Therefore, all that said, MLSE has no plans on putting a winning product on the ice and never has.

What do you want them to do right now, blow it up or trade for Thorntom/Staal or whoever?

I think Lieweke went to MLSE and said he wants much more money to put a proper management group together like he did in L.A and got shot down.

Complete B.S.

MLSE has a team of money crunchers. The evidence is clear that the product has suffered.

So again, the question is posed, does MLSE (given the size of the fan base) actually care about the individual fan?

This post if filled with so many errors, myths and out-right lies I find myself wondering why I am even responding to it.

 

[thewave]

Every time and Leafs GM goes to ownership and says we need to blow this up and draft rebuild and the Owners say "NO" that is done in the best interest of the fans and caring for the on-ice product or entertainment purposes.

Tanking = fan suffering with expected losses, while re-tooling and spending to the Cap ceiling = caring from and ownership point of view.

PS. I have no affiliation with Bell/Rogers or MLSE owners.

You know what Mess. I feel this organization and it's owners love the drama and have turned our beloved Leafs into Hockey Porn for Leafs faithful and hockey fans around the league.

The instability draws attention like no other, it's pure drama and negative after negative. They even employ Leaf bashers in Heally etc to feed us the bad news. This to me is starting to appear like a sick and twisted mind game for the purposes of garnering our attention and selling air time or ads on the web etc.

Does good news sell? Or does the bad?

This is what I have come to suspect and believe and I hate the MLSE AND IT'S ASSOCIATED COUNTERPARTS. They can show me otherwise or else I will continue to hold my beliefs even if baseless.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

If Ownership really cared they would match ticket prices with the performance of the team on the ice that their selling as entertainment. Every year that the Leafs miss the playoffs, MLSE should reimburse the season ticket holders a refund on their original purchases for pain and suffering.

That isn't reality however and as you say their running it as business and their objective is financial success as the measuring stick. The success of the team as long as their target audience and consumer base is willing to pay their asking prices for admission are a secondary concern outside of missed playoff revenue.

Willing to pay their asking prices for admission and then claiming they don't care afterwards is more a fan related problem then a ownership issue when it comes to caring. MLSE cares about getting butts in the seats and can't guarantee the entertainment level or success of the team thereafter.

If you don't like what their selling don't buy.. Buyer beware !!

Agreed. After another collapse in the Kessel/Phanuef era MLSE lowering their ticket prices would be a way to show the fans they are sorry for making them pay a premium price to watch an at best, sub par team.

Also if they really cared about the fans they would rebuild. Why? Because they know that's best. Sure there will be tons of fans against it. Crying and screaming because the Leafs aren't necessarily trying to make the playoffs, but like a good parent who doesn't give their child candy whenever he or she wants it, MLSE should turn a blind eye knowing what they are doing is better for Leaf fans in the long run.

 

[diceman934]

To the reason why the OP stated that he felt that the Leafs ownership did not care....We had the most management people and Salary of such when Burke was here....so in that vein....they cared.

If anyone really thinks that management does not care they are really not thinking this through....the better the product the more money they will make. Each playoff game would translate into far more then a Million dollars in revenue....that was the amount about 15 years ago. The fact that players do not get paid any more money per game would save them nearly this much alone..

Now lets look at the real issue....I think that in the past 30 years that the Leafs ownership has ran the leafs strictly as a business and as such only look at the bottom line as to the success of the team.

I think that currently the Leaf ownership are being forced to look at things differently as they are the media....they see daily the way their business is being perceived and their own employees the Media are stating just how horrible the on ice product is....

I do not agree with the Jersey tossing but let me tell you that this is embarrassing to the Leafs and as such will effect changes. Going to games wearing Leaf jerseys is a sign of support and why anyone would go to games wearing Jerseys is beyond me at this point.

The fact that people continue to support the product with buying and attending Leaf game lives is another thing I truly do not understand. Stay home and watch the games on Center Ice and not on the Local TV feed, as they are making money off of that as well.

So to sum up my post.....they care but we are not making them care enough!

 

[Northern Dancer]

Every time and Leafs GM goes to ownership and says we need to blow this up and draft rebuild and the Owners say "NO" that is done in the best interest of the fans and caring for the on-ice product or entertainment purposes.

Tanking = fan suffering with expected losses, while re-tooling and spending to the Cap ceiling = caring from and ownership point of view.

PS. I have no affiliation with Bell/Rogers or MLSE owners.

Aside from jfj jr, can you give other examples?

 

[Northern Dancer]

Agreed. After another collapse in the Kessel/Phanuef era MLSE lowering their ticket prices would be a way to show the fans they are sorry for making them pay a premium price to watch an at best, sub par team.

Also if they really cared about the fans they would rebuild. Why? Because they know that's best. Sure there will be tons of fans against it. Crying and screaming because the Leafs aren't necessarily trying to make the playoffs, but like a good parent who doesn't give their child candy whenever he or she wants it, MLSE should turn a blind eye knowing what they are doing is better for Leaf fans in the long run.

The only thing that would accomplish is allow scalpers to make even more money. MLSE pays taxes, scalpers do not. The market determines the ticket price not MLSE.

 

[seanlinden]

If they care they would stop with the quick fixes and try what the fans want..... Some good ol drafting and proper development.

The fans want a winning team, not the Edmonton Oilers.

Remember, hfboards isn't representative of the Toronto population.

 

[seanlinden]

Every time and Leafs GM goes to ownership and says we need to blow this up and draft rebuild and the Owners say "NO" that is done in the best interest of the fans and caring for the on-ice product or entertainment purposes.

Tanking = fan suffering with expected losses, while re-tooling and spending to the Cap ceiling = caring from and ownership point of view.

PS. I have no affiliation with Bell/Rogers or MLSE owners.

I'm curious to know what position you hold on the MLSE board to know that there's been GM's (or anyone in the hockey world for that matter) that have come in and said "we want to lose".

 

[seanlinden]

Agreed. After another collapse in the Kessel/Phanuef era MLSE lowering their ticket prices would be a way to show the fans they are sorry for making them pay a premium price to watch an at best, sub par team.

Also if they really cared about the fans they would rebuild. Why? Because they know that's best. Sure there will be tons of fans against it. Crying and screaming because the Leafs aren't necessarily trying to make the playoffs, but like a good parent who doesn't give their child candy whenever he or she wants it, MLSE should turn a blind eye knowing what they are doing is better for Leaf fans in the long run.

Ticket prices are the most meaningless thing they could do. If you're not a STH, why on earth do you care about ticket prices anyways? they're not made available to you for the price printed on it anyways.

 

[Leafs at Knight]

The fans want a winning team, not the Edmonton Oilers.

Remember, hfboards isn't representative of the Toronto population.

They want the Oilers ? I thought they'd want a team like TB, Chicago, Detroit, Boston, St.Louis, or an up incoming team like the Flames, Jets, Isles, who have all drafted and developed well.. But I guess we want to be one of the only teams that hasn't drafted and developed well, which we are right now anyhow..

 

[thewave]

I'm curious to know what position you hold on the MLSE board to know that there's been GM's (or anyone in the hockey world for that matter) that have come in and said "we want to lose".

We know that JFJ alleges this happened. We must speculate the board did not change their stance from that time based on the fact a rebuild has never happened.

It's a matter of using your common sense rather than a matter of having factual proof.

 

[I Believe]

Money is #1, not gonna dispute that.

I just don't see how a season like this one, or last years can make that much more $$ then a rebuilding season.

 

[Northern Dancer]

We know that JFJ alleges this happened. We must speculate the board did not change their stance from that time based on the fact a rebuild has never happened.

It's a matter of using your common sense rather than a matter of having factual proof.

Common sense and this board are oxymorons!!!!!

 

[thewave]

Money is #1, not gonna dispute that.

I just don't see how a season like this one, or last years can make that much more $$ then a rebuilding season.

Leaf fans piling on the backs of the media divulging the drama thereby increasing revenues in those areas is plausible I think.

 

[serdy]

The proof is in the pudding my friend. If their goal is front office stability and producing mature respected teams - they've failed miserably.

What they haven't failed at is being the wealthiest, healthiest NHL franchise in terms of dollars. Please don't let your emotions cloud straight up reasoning and dead reckoning. MLSE is focussed on having the right person in charge and the right person is not a leader like Leiweke. They want a yes man. Go back and read the Sun article about what Richard Peddie says about what being the CEO of MLSE is really all about.

MLSE is more concerned with having a Yes Man than producing a winning hockey team. That much has been proven by the moves with Burke and now Leiweke. Shanny will be next. To think anything different is deluded.

My emotions are not clouding anything, in fact I couldn't be more objective about it.

You are having an emotional reaction about things you, and likely everyone else here, couldn't possibly actually know, and passing it off as fact.

You say they want "yes men", then you support this by saying you read an article in the Sun once. I have read the article, and it says nothing related to what you're talking about. Unless you are talking about the reality of working with a Board of Directors, not at all unique to MLSE. I'm not sure if you are suggesting Burke and Liewicke are not "yes men", and that is why they haven't stuck around; if so, I must ask, what about JFJ, he would very likely be considered a "yes man", yet he was fired. Extreme accusations require extreme evidence, and you have none.

It just seems like people are upset that MLSE makes money, they want to see them punished for not winning, they want team success and financial gain to be linked, this is the whole premise of this thread. So let me ask you this: Everything being equal, if MLSE started to bleed money, and continued sucking, would this thread have been created?

I'm guessing the answer is no. So now that we have "greedy MLSE only caring about fans' wallets" out as the reason why the Leafs suck, I think we can solely focus on personnel decisions as the culprit, which is my original contention.

 

[sniper81]

Let's call a spade a spade here guys.... Who's really calling the shots? The GMs or the behind the scenes BOG's?

 

[Sundinisagod]

The fans are nothing but dollar signs in the eyes of MLSE, so in that respect yes they do care.

 

[thewave]

Common sense and this board are oxymorons!!!!!

It's because of people like you I word myself and think things through very carefully.

You're good at this and correct to hold people accountable.

 

[serdy]

It's just business.

Just like when a company lays off 1,000 employees, it's just business.

Does the company itself care? No, business is not about feelings, it is about the bottom line. Shareholders don't care about feelings, they want a return on their investment. Business.

If they could sell tickets to robots that drank twice as much beer as a human they'd happily do so.

They don't want complaints because that might discourage others from spending their money. If that is considered caring about feelings then yes they care if they might get less money.

I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me, or not. I agree that it's business. The whole idea of the corporation of MLSE caring about fans is absurd to begin with., it is a nonsensical question.

 

[serdy]

When I go to the movies and buy a ticket and then don't like the film I don't come to the conclusion the movie theater owner doesn't care. I might blame the person who made the movie however.

The Leafs are poorly managed (GM) not poorly owned when it comes to evaluating the results of the on-ice product and then determining accountability for why your not happy.

This is correct, in my opinion.

However, some people couldn't possibly accept that it is largely this simple.