Does anyone disagree that we NEED to be truly bad next season?

[egd27]

As opposed to paying 10 to 15 K to watch the likes Bozak, Lupul, Kessel just mailing it in out there?

Again not an answer.

Are you a current seasons ticket holder?

 

[HamiltonNHL]

After last year, I think this team is poisoned. The way the team tanked so hard .... something terrible is going on. I think the only hope is to trade the core. The only reason to try hard next year for the Leafs is to look good as a job interview for elsewhere. You just hope your name comes up and you get traded.

 

[Smif]

Again not an answer.

Are you a current seasons ticket holder?

Management has catered to season ticket holders for the last 10 years by trying to squeak into the playoffs. It's time to do the right thing for the franchise and the end result should translate into a perennial cup contender. To fix something properly it has to get worse before it gets better.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

We will not be very good next year....with Kessel, Dion, Lupul and JVR we were horrible, Without them we will be bad....however it is only temporary as we will be getting picks and prospects along with cap dumps.

We will soon find out if Percy is a NHL D man...as well as our glut of many other Marlies who look to be nothing better than 3/4 line players and bottom pair D man.

We have a very limited amount of Prospects who can be counted on to make a impact in the NHL any time soon. This years picks in the first rounds could help a lot.

We need to use our cap wisely to get picks and prospects from our trade partners to help stock pile talent. A five year plan of trading away players of limited value at the trade deadline as well as signing UFA on a one or two year deals....to maximize value is the way to go.

JVR should stay and we should look to move him at the 2017 trade deadline for maximum value. Must goes before the season starts are Dion, Kessel and Lupul as well as Bozak, and Polak. They should bring back a good package of picks and prospects as long as we are willing to retain salary and or bad contracts. This is like a chess game, plan ahead several moves and hope in the end that your game plan works.

They don't all need to go this off-season nor will all be dealt. 2 or 3 might get dealt. We aren't a very good team with or without them and its extremely important we maximize the trade return we get and continue to insulate some youngsters.

JVR doesn't need to go but he's an extremely valuable trade chip that should certainly be considered tradeable if it can bring us in a top D or center (or a potential one). Kadri also fits into this category.

We need to be maximizing trade returns and some we'll be better off waiting till next deadline or even next off-season. Lupul + Polak we are definitely better off waiting till next deadline.

Our prospect cupboard is just starting to get well stocked but our top prospects in Nylander, Brown, Leipsic, Loov, Leivo, Percy, top pick this draft aren't ready for top minutes yet and a lot of them are very likely to benefit from call up chances, the odd press box game and seeing a half season or more in the AHL.

Guys like Carrick, McKegg, Granberg simply have limited upside, aren't that great of prospects and might just be waiver material like D'Amigo, Holzer, Ashton were,

 

[91Kadri91*]

There are thoughts on this board, that we weren't really as bad as we were.

The Leafs are exactly as bad as they were this season. The Leafs had the fourth worst CF and FF%, and while their PDO was a little low at 99.4, the Hurricanes and Coyotes were significantly lower at 97.1 and 97.2 respectively. There's nothing to suggest this core can win enough to make the playoffs, never mind win a cup.

 

[91Kadri91*]

We need to aquire picks, draft well and develop well.

If we end up doing better next season than expected and its due to young players developing really well, then that's all fine with me.

This is key.

I'm perfectly content with the prospect of winning as long as it's our young players, and not the rotten core currently in place, or one-year deadline fodder, who are leading the charge.

 

[Drew75]

As I'm technically challened Someone should do the old Tropic Thunder picture with the "Never go Full Oilers" caption

 

[Brock Radunske]

Management won't ever admit to it - and nor would we expect them to - but don't we pro-actively need to be awful next season?

Trade the identified 'core' for picks and prospects ONLY, shed as much of their salary as possible and absolutely NO high-profile FA signings come July 1.

In an ideal world we should be struggling to reach the floor of the cap, filling out the NHL roster at the start of camp with scrubs?

Brewer to be the lynchpin of the D etc etc.

Do this, accept it, then we can 'enjoy' the futility for the season. The pain will be worth the long-term gain.

One thing though to at least make it 'interesting'?...... Torts as head coach! What a riot that'd be!

Trying to suck or trying to win, we're looking at a tank season this year anyway

 

[HellasLEAF]

I completely agree with the OP.

We need to be truly bad next season. top 5 bad at least.

The fact is, we aren't making the playoffs next season. I sincerely doubt it.

SO, since we are rebuilding anyway with these young players, finishing 10th in the east does NOTHING for us!!

One more real stinker, will be a good development year, then let's try and load up.

 

[LaPlante94]

I just want to see a competitive team that gives it 100% every game, so it's not a complete waste of my time watching them play. If they did that, I'd be happy no matter where they finished.

 

[Drew75]

I completely agree with the OP.

We need to be truly bad next season. top 5 bad at least.

The fact is, we aren't making the playoffs next season. I sincerely doubt it.

SO, since we are rebuilding anyway with these young players, finishing 10th in the east does NOTHING for us!!

One more real stinker, will be a good development year, then let's try and load up.

How is "intentionally losing" a good development year?

I think we'll be selling off core players all year, bringing in fillers, and trying to create an enviornment where if we lose, at least we competed.

We'll likely finnish in the bottom 5 of league anyways just from losing guys like Phaneuf & Kessel (hate them or not, they ARE good players) - and management won't add pieces to try and gain useless points (see: Martin Gerber) ... but there is no way they will throw guys like Reilly, Gardiner, and whomever else into a situation where the expectation is to not compete each and every shift.

 

[HellasLEAF]

How is "intentionally losing" a good development year?

I think we'll be selling off core players all year, bringing in fillers, and trying to create an enviornment where if we lose, at least we competed.

We'll likely finnish in the bottom 5 of league anyways just from losing guys like Phaneuf & Kessel (hate them or not, they ARE good players) - and management won't add pieces to try and gain useless points (see: Martin Gerber) ... but there is no way they will throw guys like Reilly, Gardiner, and whomever else into a situation where the expectation is to not compete each and every shift.

I'm not sure where you got words "intentionally losing" and decided to quote them and then quote my post.

Nowhere am I suggesting that.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Again not an answer.

Are you a current seasons ticket holder?

I am not. If I was, I'd rather be paying that money to watch a young team that gives a **** instead of guys like we have right now.

 

[darrylsittler27]

And the answer is ....Babcock, no losing.

Because of the new lotto draft next year, you can tank but there will be no reward.Next year's draft won't be that good and we have a lot of chips to trade. Their return will be more than any take a chance draft. We have Kessel,Phaneuff,Kadri,Bernier,Lupul,Bozak,Polak and Gardiner as possible pieces.I can't recall the last time a team had so many players they could unload for young prospects and draft picks, can you? It would be better to load up on picks than to try and lose(gamble).

Babcock will want to win, you don't bring in that guy to lose.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

Because of the new lotto draft next year, you can tank but there will be no reward.Next year's draft won't be that good and we have a lot of chips to trade. Their return will be more than any take a chance draft. We have Kessel,Phaneuff,Kadri,Bernier,Lupul,Bozak,Polak and Gardiner as possible pieces.I can't recall the last time a team had so many players they could unload for young prospects and draft picks, can you? It would be better to load up on picks than to try and lose(gamble).

Babcock will want to win, you don't bring in that guy to lose.

Some will be dealt this off-season. Some next deadline. Some next off-season.

The gutting of this team started this past deadline. The team didn't make serious contracts offers to Franson, Winnik and Santorelli because gaining picks was more important + we unloaded Clarkson.

Buffalo comes to mind as a team as having been in a very similar situation to us a few years ago. All of their "core" in Miller, Roy then Ott, Vanek, Pominville, Regehr, Sekera, Leopold between the 13 deadline and the 14 deadline.

Then this deadline Stewart, Stafford and Myers found new homes.

 

[Menzinger]

I'd like one more season of looking to get a high pick - ie in the top 10.

The leafs still have very big wholes at centre and defence and the draft is pretty much the only way to get top tier talent in the new NHL.

Tanking can't go on forever, but a fair amount of the leafs core needs to go. I don't want another season with Bozak as the teams topline centre. Let's draft our own!

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Babcock will want to win, you don't bring in that guy to lose.

Nobody likes losing.
I coach little kids hockey and for some reason I really want to win.
It's just instinct.

In the presser tomorrow. Count the number of times they say the word: Patience.

 

[darrylsittler27]

Better core.

Kessel,Kadri,Phaneuff,Gardiner,Bernier would fetch way more than what Buffalo got. Buffalo was content just to get rid of them and get Eichel.

 

[The Thin White Duke]

We're at the stage where we need to draft one elite cornerstone piece (4th overall this year, or a top pick next year) really. The really important part is stocking up on top-90 picks and swinging for the fences with them. Being able to add a Bergeron/Subban/Kucherov on an ELC for the price of a 2nd round pick is arguably more important than drafting top 5 next year. Losing will help but not as much as making a habit of making as many high picks as possible.

As for blowing up this core, I have only one question: Does anyone here REALLY want to see Phaneuf passing the cup to Kessel/Bozak holding it together? This core (minus Rielly) is the last group of people I'd want to see winning the cup.

 

[GojuLeaf]

if we play kids but they do well and we win, that's k.
if we win using the current core we are fooling ourselves, this core will never go deep in the playoffs

 

[seanlinden]

This whole "need to be bad" thing is simply conjecture, that isn't reality within the confines of the NHL. Anyone who thinks Shanahan, or any other GM, was going to go into a season, intending to be totally non-competitive is completely out of touch with reality.

The hiring of Babcock today, goes towards proving that.... the first priority of any hockey team is winning, and the Leafs went and got the coach who they think gives them the best chance of doing that.

Does that negate to the need to rebuild? obviously not... the Leafs have been through 3 coaches with a similar group / structure, and all have failed. They will aggressively pursue the pieces that they need to become a winning team, and acquire them when available, like they did today with Mike Babcock. A #1C may not be available today, but the thought that the Leafs were going to dismantle their roster to intentionally lose and hopefully draft a #1 is laughable. They'll move out valuable players, only if required to bring in the players they need.

 

[Byron Bitz]

I think it would be good for our young talent to start learning how to win. But if we are bad than having another top pick is a nice consolation prize. Also, if we are good then that means the players on our roster are good, if we are bad then the players on our roster are bad. I would rather us have good players.

 

[Leafidelity]

With the changes in the lottery, you don't need to be Buffalo bad to get in position for the top pick.

 

[Dallas Eakins*]

JVR doesn't need to go but he's an extremely valuable trade chip that should certainly be considered tradeable if it can bring us in a top D or center (or a potential one). Kadri also fits into this category.

No one is trading a top D or center for either of those and then keeping a job at the NHL level. JVR is as close to a must trade as the Leafs have his contract means nothing to a rebuilding team and everything to a contending one trade him for younger players who the new crew can develop to play strong 200 foot games I'm tired of the lazy entitled floater era that JVR is certainly a cornerstone of.

 

[roosterman]

Babcock changes nothing in the short term.... Trade Phaneuf, Kessel, UFA's, etc., draft low and develop, develop, develop. Do not sign any major UFA's unless they we can trade them for picks at the deadline.

IMO, the likes of Nylander, Percy, Brown, our 4OA this year, etc. are not coming to the Leafs this year unless they absolute blow the management socks off.

We simply do not have enough of a strong prospect pool to start rising from the depths of the NHL bottom.