Does anyone disagree that we NEED to be truly bad next season?

[hfman]

We need to be bad next season?

Won't be a problem.

 

[Durrr]

This team is going to be expected to compete next year, even if they end up in the basement. Not sure why people are expecting scorched earth ala Buffallo, because on top of the real possibility that guys like Kessel, JVR etc are back, this management is going to expect the players who remain to show like they want to be here.

 

[Hotel Mario]

Last years team was very easy to cheer against for the high draft pick.

We don't NEED to suck next season, we NEED to get rid of the poison players and develop patiently and properly. If the team actually puts up a fight instead of throwing games away, its a successful season. Wins and losses almost will not matter at least in the very short term.

 

[LeafGrief]

We don't NEED to suck, just like we don't NEED to draft a #1C. There are always other ways of getting things done.

HOWEVER, sucking is undoubtedly going to help things along with that. Even if the hockey gods spit on us in the new draft lottery, coming out with the 4th pick is still going to be a great opportunity, and the higher our draft picks are for the next few years, the better. Yes, it is possible to pull a Ducks and draft Getz and Perry late, but it is far easier and more common to pull a Blackhawks and draft Kane and Toews with high picks.

A rebuild is a 3-5 year project, and we are in the final days of year one. I expect and want us to suck for two more seasons. The on-ice product should never be a garbage fire and we will want to see improvement from our young guys, but we can't be content with the 7th-10th pick every year.

 

[Silver91]

This season is about to giving minutes to guys like Rielly, Gardiner, Kadri (if he's still here), and anyone of importance we get in trades for Kessel, Phaneuf, JVR... and not having the kids on the team only to play in limited roles.

If guys like Nylander, Leipsic, Brown, Percy and Gauthier make the team and play significant roles and the team excels, then great! If they don't make the team and we end up with a shot at Matthews, then that's fine too. I just don't want to play veterans/overpay veterans at the expense of the kids getting playing time at whatever level they are at. If that means signing a couple vets, letting kids fight for some top 9 minutes and leaving most of the prospects to play significant roles with the Marlies, I'm ok with that, as long as the kids aren't rotting for 55 minutes on the bench every night.

If we have a lineup like this and make the playoffs:

JVR - Kadri - Nylander
Lupul - Holland - Leipsic/Brown
Leivo - UFA - Trade
Komarov - Gauthier - Carrick

Rielly - Polak
Gardiner - UFA/Trade
Percy/Loov - Robidas

Bernier
Reimer/UFA​

Then how can you complain that the kids were able to pull off something that people thought impossible? Obviously, I don't think that we're going to ice a roster that looks like that, and if we did, I don't think they'd make the playoffs, but for this season, and probably the next, the main goal is about development and amassing assets, with playoffs a happy bonus

 

[Hotel Mario]

This sums it as many have pointed to. We don't need to be bad per se, but we need to refocus on development. If we end up playing poorly so be it.

I'd really like to play the kids with some vets to mentor. Tired of stop gaps.

Reilly, Percy, Levio, Carrick, Kadri, Panik, Holland, and so on should all be given more responsibility.

- Veterans have their place on a team, but the younger Marlies/draft picks should be given every opportunity to earn a spot. Obviously this was not the case this season, most likely due to the toxic atmosphere. Seeing Trevor Smith, Colton Orr, and Eric Brewer type players suit up for the Leafs over Carrick/Percy, would be a travesty.

No more warm bodies, no more filler, Santorelli, Winnik, Polak, Komarov were/are ideal veteran players to have around. If that means pick 7-10 over 1-5 that's a good thing, the goal is development not dumpster fire.

 

[Pyrophorus]

I think people are going to be disappointed and surprised if they believe that plan A is going to be the Buffalo version of this past season and tanking from game #1 on.

There are numerous reason here for this and they include.

1). Requires the removal of numerous veteran like Kessel and Phaneuf ect and there is no guarantee that will happen if they do not get the right trade offers as Leafs will not simply give these players away. Say Kessel isn't traded and next year JVR -- Kadri -- Kessel form Leafs top line they will still produce a significant amount of offense to keep the Leafs out of 30th spot.

2) Leafs are going to have a new coach and new system and will not be coaching to lose but rather win.

3) The players are not going to play to intentionally lose and just because you remove veteran players. For example say Lupul is traded away and he had 10-11-21 points last year and Leafs replace him with Nylander. Willie will be playing his heart out to try and make himself better as he develops he could easily surpass the point production of the player he replaces. Ditto say if Bozak were traded and Kadri promoted to top line and #1PP unit that might make the Leafs better not worse by that change. Addition by subtraction could see the Leafs improve not decline in the standings.

I felt these were the key points to my argument.

 

[egd27]

Buyer beware. If you have looked at the product on ice and make that call that's on you. We are all in some form or another the social assistance that affords the David Clarksons.

I'll take that as a no to my actual question.

I can understand the sentiment... but I just would want the team to compete, and be built right. If I'm making that financial commitment, I suppose I've been making it for years, and will continue to... I don't want a team built half assed... let's do it right.

I think it's fair to expect the team to compete. It's very easy to talk about putting together a cap floor, zero expectation team here on a message board, it's another thing when you actually have the responsibility to provide some value to season ticket holders, corporate partners, etc.

It's not as simple as some here would like to make it out to be.

 

[fahad203]

We don't need to do full Oilers to rebuild. We have assets we can trade and get some NHL ready prospects

If we trade Kessel and Dion, we should get some NHL ready prospects.

We already have Kadri, Reilley, JVR and Bernier that we can build around. They are still young enough.

We can also take on cap, we can use that leverage. We don't have to tank to stock pile on prospects. We just have to make smart trades and draft well. We don't draft well. We don't have any surprise picks that makes the NHL.

 

[thewave]

I'll take that as a no to my actual question.



I think it's fair to expect the team to compete. It's very easy to talk about putting together a cap floor, zero expectation team here on a message board, it's another thing when you actually have the responsibility to provide some value to season ticket holders, corporate partners, etc.

It's not as simple as some here would like to make it out to be.

They had the same responsibility for a decade to the fans and same season ticket holders, corporate partners etc. I expect them to take a season off milking the cow.

That being said I am down with bringing in Semin as part to a Kessel trade if the returns right. I am ok with the free wallets and other steps taken to put something together.

This team needs to find itself before it worries about the rest of us. I expect that be pretty nasty to look at and accept it. If it turns out to work somehow then that implies we have things of interest here to other teams which will complete the job by way of trade anyways.

 

[PuckMagi]

I think we'll make the playoffs next year.

This was our tank year... I don't think that we'll lose on purpose... I think we'll be a lot better than people are predicting.

 

[Northern Dancer]

Management won't ever admit to it - and nor would we expect them to - but don't we pro-actively need to be awful next season?

Trade the identified 'core' for picks and prospects ONLY, shed as much of their salary as possible and absolutely NO high-profile FA signings come July 1.

In an ideal world we should be struggling to reach the floor of the cap, filling out the NHL roster at the start of camp with scrubs?

Brewer to be the lynchpin of the D etc etc.

Do this, accept it, then we can 'enjoy' the futility for the season. The pain will be worth the long-term gain.

One thing though to at least make it 'interesting'?...... Torts as head coach! What a riot that'd be!

I for one think we are already into year three of a rebuild. We are not starting from scratch. We have lots of good assets with Marlies plus this years picks. Leafs will be better next year for sure.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

Management won't ever admit to it - and nor would we expect them to - but don't we pro-actively need to be awful next season?

Trade the identified 'core' for picks and prospects ONLY, shed as much of their salary as possible and absolutely NO high-profile FA signings come July 1.

In an ideal world we should be struggling to reach the floor of the cap, filling out the NHL roster at the start of camp with scrubs?

Brewer to be the lynchpin of the D etc etc.

Do this, accept it, then we can 'enjoy' the futility for the season. The pain will be worth the long-term gain.

One thing though to at least make it 'interesting'?...... Torts as head coach! What a riot that'd be!

This part is dead wrong. Toronto is in a completely different financial situation than most teams and needs to take advantage of their financial muscle in an intelligent way.

We should be looking to take on bad contracts to gain extra assets like we did with all of Brewer, Kolzig, Lombardi, Jokinen. Every extra pick even as low as a 6th rounder counts for something.

We need to avoid handing out long term deals for big dollars like we did with Jason Blake, Mike Komisarek, etc.

The Leafs need to be looking at retaining salary on deals to get a better return, taking on overpaid guys in trades to get a better return or taking on outright cap dumps to gain an asset or guys with only 1 or 2 years left on their deals we can deal shortly down the road.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

I for one think we are already into year three of a rebuild. We are not starting from scratch. We have lots of good assets with Marlies plus this years picks. Leafs will be better next year for sure.

We aren't starting from stratch but we also have quite a way to go.

Nylander, top pick this year, Brown, other picks/prospects almost all won't be ready to make a big impact next year. If we get lucky 1 or 2 start making a decent impact next year but that still won't be much in the grand scheme of things.

We really do need to stay bad (or get worse) before we can get better. Gaining a top pick next year + grabbing lots of extra assets next deadline would be the best thing with where this franchise is at.

If a few high levels guys like Kessel, Phaneuf, JVR start getting moved out we'll also be getting worse.

 

[Stephen]

Rebuilding is basically an arms race, so if you want to be battling for the Stanley Cup beginning in 2019 or 2020, for example, you want to make sure you're armed to the teeth to beat those teams, and right now we don't have that many pieces.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

I would hope they are smart enough to avoid signing UFA's to any term. The only deals signed should be Winnik and Santorelli types; one year, then trade at deadline.

They've also kind of hinted at hitting the reset button on some guys. If they do that, then they'll be young and the bad will take care of itself.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Out of curiosity, how many of you that would be happy going 0-82 next year have paid the 10 to 15K for seasons tickets?

As opposed to paying 10 to 15 K to watch the likes Bozak, Lupul, Kessel just mailing it in out there?

 

[diceman934]

We will not be very good next year....with Kessel, Dion, Lupul and JVR we were horrible, Without them we will be bad....however it is only temporary as we will be getting picks and prospects along with cap dumps.

We will soon find out if Percy is a NHL D man...as well as our glut of many other Marlies who look to be nothing better than 3/4 line players and bottom pair D man.

We have a very limited amount of Prospects who can be counted on to make a impact in the NHL any time soon. This years picks in the first rounds could help a lot.

We need to use our cap wisely to get picks and prospects from our trade partners to help stock pile talent. A five year plan of trading away players of limited value at the trade deadline as well as signing UFA on a one or two year deals....to maximize value is the way to go.

JVR should stay and we should look to move him at the 2017 trade deadline for maximum value. Must goes before the season starts are Dion, Kessel and Lupul as well as Bozak, and Polak. They should bring back a good package of picks and prospects as long as we are willing to retain salary and or bad contracts. This is like a chess game, plan ahead several moves and hope in the end that your game plan works.

 

[Commander Clueless]

I don't think we NEED to be truly bad next season. Top three picks aren't the only way to get high end talent, and even if they were, the new lottery system makes it easier to get if we're only moderately atrocious.


Eventually we may accidently tank ourselves into a playoff team. We'll see, I guess.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

We aren't the Flames, it's not gonna happen. Even if this team overachieves next year, we're still in the bottom 10. Take away Phaneuf and Kessel, how would this team possibly get better?

 

[thewave]

We will not be very good next year....with Kessel, Dion, Lupul and JVR we were horrible, Without them we will be bad....however it is only temporary as we will be getting picks and prospects along with cap dumps.

We will soon find out if Percy is a NHL D man...as well as our glut of many other Marlies who look to be nothing better than 3/4 line players and bottom pair D man.

We have a very limited amount of Prospects who can be counted on to make a impact in the NHL any time soon. This years picks in the first rounds could help a lot.

We need to use our cap wisely to get picks and prospects from our trade partners to help stock pile talent. A five year plan of trading away players of limited value at the trade deadline as well as signing UFA on a one or two year deals....to maximize value is the way to go.

JVR should stay and we should look to move him at the 2017 trade deadline for maximum value. Must goes before the season starts are Dion, Kessel and Lupul as well as Bozak, and Polak. They should bring back a good package of picks and prospects as long as we are willing to retain salary and or bad contracts. This is like a chess game, plan ahead several moves and hope in the end that your game plan works.

The 1st order for me is. Bozak Lupul Polak Robidas, Dion and then finally Kessel if we get top value.

JVR Kadri Kessel Holland Panik Komarov and ????

Rielly Gardiner and ????

A lot of spots to figure out and be tried for.

 

[Ovate]

I don't think we need to be like Buffalo was, in dead last for the entire season. I think we can have a similar amount of longterm success by being not quite a bubble team for most of the season and then moving almost everyone at the trade deadline.

Also, remember that last year had a very high number of teams tanking. In a lesser draft, with different lottery rules, we'll see more teams trying to be competitive.

 

[Smif]

We will not be very good next year....with Kessel, Dion, Lupul and JVR we were horrible, Without them we will be bad....however it is only temporary as we will be getting picks and prospects along with cap dumps.

We will soon find out if Percy is a NHL D man...as well as our glut of many other Marlies who look to be nothing better than 3/4 line players and bottom pair D man.

We have a very limited amount of Prospects who can be counted on to make a impact in the NHL any time soon. This years picks in the first rounds could help a lot.

We need to use our cap wisely to get picks and prospects from our trade partners to help stock pile talent. A five year plan of trading away players of limited value at the trade deadline as well as signing UFA on a one or two year deals....to maximize value is the way to go.

JVR should stay and we should look to move him at the 2017 trade deadline for maximum value. Must goes before the season starts are Dion, Kessel and Lupul as well as Bozak, and Polak. They should bring back a good package of picks and prospects as long as we are willing to retain salary and or bad contracts. This is like a chess game, plan ahead several moves and hope in the end that your game plan works.

Polak I believe should stay. He's the perfect guy to sell high on at the trade deadline and you don't have to worry about his attitude or work ethic while he's here.

 

[FlareKnight]

I don't think we'll go all out to be the worst team ever....but I still think we get there. A lot of teams around us should improve while we're going to be selling.

Even with the new lotto system if we finish at the bottom the worst case is picking here again and that's a good spot.

Will look forward to seeing how guys develop while hoping we sink as far as we can.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

I would love to see the core traded. That would be my plan. And trading the core will increase the number of losses.