Value of: Does 4+16 get KAKKO

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Lonewolfe2015

Rom Com Male Lead
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Dec 2, 2007
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Again this unproven bs. Guess the whole top10 prospects got the same value because they are unproven in terms of potential.

What? Do you have even have an argument for what makes Kakko significantly different from Makar in potential? They both have such a high ceiling and haven't proven enough in the NHL to draw a tangible conclusion. It's just personal bias hiding your opinion if you try and state otherwise.
 

Skin Tape Session

Registered User
Oct 7, 2017
1,584
725
Ahh yes, quite the counter argument.

I don't really care to argue with rangers fans. I get it. I remember as a leafs fan what the darkness was like. I also remember before getting our generational center and franchise winger what a sorry state we we're in. Hell we thought Nylander would be a num 1 center. So Koko franchise player, yup ok, you win lol.
 

Shootertooter

Registered User
Feb 20, 2016
3,676
1,487
someone tell Captain Obvious his job is still safe, 'cuz apparently, this is the only guy who didn't get this was a humorous attempt at some levity to diffuse the risk of this thread going from snarky to nasty.

I will resist the temptation to make this all about me.
You have a confusion, including but not limited to, my actual passionate advocacy of my positions/proposals, and your slander of a vainglorious ego.

My positions are what they are.
If and when you can prove I'm wrong, I'll be happy to own up to that.
Unless and until then, I stand by what I say.
You and the handful of extreme critics who won't concede water is wet can stand down.

And this does not address your own continued misrepresentations, which being repetitive, suggest they are intentional. You recently said I said Nieves was the fastest Ranger, or something to that effect. I never said that. I am on record with Kreider was the fastest, with obviously elite speed, and Nieves had superior speed [along with other factors], making him an ideal complement for Kreider.

Why don't you do us all a favor and make sure you have the facts right before you start throwing mud. That is a courtesy everyone on this board should extend at all times, to extent one insists on mud throwing.

And while what I say may not be immediately recognized, in the long run, much of it is true, and the herd that goes against is ultimately wrong. The example here is Stepan. It was obvious we had to deal him when we did, and we were fortunate AZ overpaid us. What was not immediately seen at first glance and what was lost in the shrift is the fact it was correct to call to trade him earlier on, when we would have gotten more for basically the same production asset at less salary cost.

Time and truth will see who is right.
In the meantime, maybe you can dial down the pernicious snips you insist upon.

Facts....really? You are the last guy who should be talking about anyone else's facts, when don't use them yourself.
Your theories are usually completely devoid of them and are obviously based more on whims and desire to be right than actual facts.

Bern's there is no "US". It is just you that people here have openly criticized and laughed at. Spare them the ridiculous proposals that are not well thought out, lack any valuation of players and team needs. That isn't intelligent.

Your ego.....implying that your theory is akin to being water is wet, is exactly what I mean. You are the only person who thinks this way. You have the extremist opinion here. Boo Nieves is barely a 4C, nothing more....THAT is water being wet, THAT is factual. Your notion otherwise is not intelligent, it is not based on fact. Your ego and need to be "right" prevents you from using common sense to see that your theory is bunk.

You can stand by your positions that is fine but you act as if they are correct. They can only be substantiated by actually coming to fruition but only you can't see that they won't. Until they do, you aren't correct. Because they don't, and won't, it only substantiates that your theories are wrong or nothing more than day dreams.

Regarding Boo's speed, there are literally 100's of posts and dozens of threads where you took the position that he was the the logical choice to play with Kreider because he could keep up with him, so lets not play semantics. Is Kreider faster than Boo? it doesn't matter.........many people have already called you out citing that Nieves may be a fast skater but he lacks the actual skill to be a 1C. So, this is really a non issue. So the notion that he would be a logical 1C is what is being misrepresented here by you. Again the overwhelming "No's" to what you said there are deafening. Nobody agrees with you. It is not a small contingent of extreme critics.....it is virtually EVERYONE.

Please stop with Stepan. We are talking trades and proposals. You continue to hang your hat as being correct on something from 4 or 5 years ago as if you were the only person who said this is silly. It really was a ground ball. You've been wrong about pretty much everything prior and since that. If a broken clock is right twice a day, that is 100% more accuracy than you've had.

I personally do not like to get personal with anyone, but your passive aggressive insults dictate how people respond to you. If you could reign in that ego and lose the passive aggressive style, you might be taken a bit more seriously. I might not "snip" at you all that much then. Until then I still look at you as the village idiot.
 
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Shootertooter

Registered User
Feb 20, 2016
3,676
1,487
Everyone from Colorado would say no, see just like it would take an overpayment to get Kakko, it would take an overpayment to get Makar. Seems like Makar is getting massively underrated here in comparison to Kakko.

So then there is no deal to be made here. Ranger fans want more, Col. fans want to give less......no happy middle ground.......lock it up?
 

BPD

Registered User
Jul 7, 2009
3,460
638
New York City
I'm not reading whatever pissfest bern scared up here, but to answer OPs question:

The cap has made picks this high in the draft - especially in drafts where there does appear to be solid, franchise-altering talent at the top - almost too valuable to trade.

4+16 should absolutely get you 2 in a non-cap world. It won't, because having Kakko, Hughes, Matthews, Laine, whomever - players of that caliber at that cost - is simply too valuable an asset to move from.
 
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Morgs

#16 #34 #44 #88 #91
Jul 12, 2015
19,546
15,414
London, ON
Tbh I think it's close.

NYR obviously wouldn't do it because it would be terrible if Turcotte/Byram ends up being significantly worse, but I don't know if I think the difference is pick 16.
 
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bondra

Registered User
Jan 18, 2019
475
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What? Do you have even have an argument for what makes Kakko significantly different from Makar in potential? They both have such a high ceiling and haven't proven enough in the NHL to draw a tangible conclusion. It's just personal bias hiding your opinion if you try and state otherwise.

I was talking about value when you quoted me first time not about potential. You probably misunderstood my message.

I meant that player who will probably be drafted 2nd this year has higher value than player who was drafted 4th in 2017. And 10 NHL playoff games dont change that.
 

EXTRAS

Registered User
Jul 31, 2012
8,908
5,358
I'd say Kakko would be closer to the value of #3 overall + #10 overall.

If I was the nyr I'd probably be interested in Byram+zegras/boldy/dach/etc.

Byram will be a top pairing dman and another top pick has a fairly good chance of being a top line forward.

I think 4+16 isn't enough.
 
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GOilers88

#DustersWinCups
Dec 24, 2016
14,430
21,256
Of course they will listen to offers.
Whether they pull the trigger is something else
Only shitty GM's refuse to entertain trade proposals. Lots of people around here seem to think a large part of being a GM involves laughing at other GM's while slamming the phone down, or just refusing to pick the phone up.

The general hive mind on the main boards doesn't seem to even understand hockey.
 

Groo

Registered User
May 11, 2013
6,380
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Only ****ty GM's refuse to entertain trade proposals. Lots of people around here seem to think a large part of being a GM involves laughing at other GM's while slamming the phone down, or just refusing to pick the phone up.

The general hive mind on the main boards doesn't seem to even understand hockey.
Bravo.
The real GM's are trying to win games and not a BB debate
 

Skin Tape Session

Registered User
Oct 7, 2017
1,584
725
Facts....really? You are the last guy who should be talking about anyone else's facts, when don't use them yourself.
Your theories are usually completely devoid of them and are obviously based more on whims and desire to be right than actual facts.

Bern's there is no "US". It is just you that people here have openly criticized and laughed at. Spare them the ridiculous proposals that are not well thought out, lack any valaation of players and team needs. That isn't intelligent.

Your ego.....implying that your theory is akin to being water is wet, is exactly what I mean. You are the only person who thinks this way. You have the extremist opinion here. Boo Nieves is barely a 4C, nothing more....THAT is water being wet, THAT is factual. Your notion otherwise is not intelligent, it is not based on fact. Your ego and need to be "right" prevents you from using common sense to see that your theory is bunk.

You can stand by your positions that is fine but you act as if they are correct. They can only be substantiated by actually coming to fruition but only you can't see that they won't. Until they do, you aren't correct. Because they don't, and won't, it only substantiates that your theories are wrong or nothing more than day dreams.

Regarding Boo's speed, there literally 100's of posts and dozens of threads where you took the position that he was the the logical choice to play with Kreider because he could keep up with him, so lets not play semantics. Is Kreider faster than Boo? it doesn't matter.........many people have already called you out citing that Nieves may be a fast skater but he lacks the actual skill to be a 1C. So, this is really a non issue. So the notion that he would be a logical 1C is what is being misrepresented here by you. Again the overwhelming "No's" to what you said there are deafening. Nobody agrees with you. It is not a small contingent of extreme critics.....it is virtually EVERYONE.

Please stop with Stepan. We are talking trades and proposals. You continue to hang your hat as being correct on something from 4 or 5 years ago as if you were the only person who said this is silly. It really was a ground ball. You've been wrong about pretty much everything prior and since that. If a broken clock is right twice a day, that is 100% more accuracy than you've had.

I personally do not like to get personal with anyone, but your passive aggressive insults dictate how people respond to you. If you could reign in that ego and lose the passive aggressive style, you might be taken a bit more seriously. I might not "snip" at you all that much then. Until then I still look at you as the village idiot.

Destroyed
 

tomobson

Registered User
Sep 16, 2008
1,964
2,094
the rangers have been lacking an elite player that isn't a goaltender since leetch. I don't see any realistic offer that will be made by a GM to take that pick from them. Kakko is their best chance at getting a player of that caliber since Park in 19*******66. Think about that for a while, and how impossible it is going to be for them to give up that chance.
 

Just A Bit Outside

Playoffs??!
Mar 6, 2010
16,617
15,622
Simple question is, if you were in the other team's shoes, would you do the deal?

Cannot see Colorado fans giving up Kakko for whomever they could draft at 4+16.
 
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