Dodged a bullet (Staal contract)

[cassius]

One underlooked factor that folks seem to forget, is that Shero made a contract offer for Jordan Staal.. To the tune of 10 years, $60 million.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/...id-with-staal-for-rejecting-10-year-contract/

Can you imagine how far this organization would be set back if Staal signed on the dotted line? Extensions for our core players and free agent acquisitions could have been potentially impossible.

i.e. if Staal signed that deal, it would have basically solidified that Crosby/Malkin would be playing with scrubs for the next 10 years in their career (until they were 35/36)

For reference: Staal posted 40 points in 82 games this season. Today Carolina's coach got fired..

If nothing else, it definitely raises some question marks about Shero's ability to value talent. You never go full ****** and sign a 3rd line center to a $60M deal. It ALMOST happened, if not for Staal passing it up.

The Penguins are extremely lucky that Staal ended up turning down that ridiculous contract. Without a doubt, I feel that it could have ended up being possibly the worst contract in Penguins history. You simply cannot overpay for third line centers these days, as they are a dime a dozen.

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[66-30-33]

Carolina fans are happy to have him.

 

[PensPlz]

Only things I see that would be different is Letang gets traded instead of signed, maybe we don't keep Kennedy those extra years, maybe even Scuds might not of come back. Would that have really been so horrible?

 

[Til the End of Time]

i fear the letang contract is just as bad, except the bullet wasnt dodged.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Jordan had a significantly better season than Eric, to be fair. Most Canes fans have few complaints about Jordan, though that may speak to how bad everyone else was more than how good he's been.

 

[wolffy66]

One underlooked factor that folks seem to forget, is that Shero made a contract offer for Jordan Staal.. To the tune of 10 years, $60 million.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/...id-with-staal-for-rejecting-10-year-contract/

Can you imagine how far this organization would be set back if Staal signed on the dotted line? Extensions for our core players and free agent acquisitions could have been potentially impossible.

i.e. if Staal signed that deal, it would have basically solidified that Crosby/Malkin would be playing with scrubs for the next 10 years in their career (until they were 35/36)

For reference: Staal posted 40 points in 82 games this season. Today Carolina's coach got fired..

If nothing else, it definitely raises some question marks about Shero's ability to value talent. You never go full ****** and sign a 3rd line center to a $60M deal. It ALMOST happened, if not for Staal passing it up.

The Penguins are extremely lucky that Staal ended up turning down that ridiculous contract. Without a doubt, I feel that it could have ended up being possibly the worst contract in Penguins history. You simply cannot overpay for third line centers these days, as they are a dime a dozen.

Is he really a third line center? Sutter will get within close to within 1-1.5 mil of that. Staal is definitely better. Maybe the fit wasn't right here going forward, but they were successful with it.

 

[Atren]

I would have prefered if Pens kept Staal, but yeah cap would been problem. I suppose Orpik and Niskanen would be goners rather than Letang.

 

[billybudd]

Jordan Staal's awesome and I'd happily pay him $6 million per year. For point of comparison, that's what Niskanen's probably about to make if he hits the open market.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I wasn't a fan of Shero tying up that much money in our third line center, so I'm happy he went elsewhere. But I think the OP is being a bit harsh.

From all accounts, Staal had a solid year for the Hurricanes. The entire team was snakebit offensively, so it's no wonder Jordan's totals are lower than you'd hope.

It's looking like Staal will never reach any lofty offensive totals. But if he can creep back up to a 50+ point player, along with his strong defense, the contract isn't so bad as salaries continue to escalate.

 

[DegenX]

Staal isn't even on the team any more and you're still finding reasons to grumble. Never change, man.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Wasn't J.Staal supposed to be the guy to really help turn their anemic offense around, though? Everyone likes to say that Carolina just "isn't very good" offensively and poor Jordan shouldn't have to answer for that mess. Well... he's a huge part of it, the way I see it.

Not really his fault that he's a 3/2 tweener. Just not a great job by Rutherford (or Shero, for that matter) in assessing his offensive ceiling. Which it's looking like he already hit years ago. Not a great #2 overall, either. So yeah... happy that things worked out like they did. I suspect this team had some really, really fanciful ideas involving Jordan that would have probably set the team back a good bit.

Not sure what the point of this thread is at this extremely late date, though.

 

[Gooch]

Crosby is still playing with scrubs, just they're higher paid than they used to be.

I was a Jordan Staal fan but yeah I would not in the least be comfortable putting that much of the cap in what essentially is a 3rd C position. I liked the return we got in the trade, I did not like how the pick was used. I do not like how the cap space was used after that. Having Staal signed for that much couldve made Shero more careful with giving the kinds of contracts he gave to Dupuis and Letang.

 

[cassius]

Wasn't J.Staal supposed to be the guy to really help turn their anemic offense around, though? Everyone likes to say that Carolina just "isn't very good" offensively and poor Jordan shouldn't have to answer for that mess. Well... he's a huge part of it, the way I see it.

Not really his fault that he's a 3/2 tweener. Just not a great job by Rutherford (or Shero, for that matter) in assessing his offensive ceiling. Which it's looking like he already hit years ago. Not a great #2 overall, either. So yeah... happy that things worked out like they did. I suspect this team had some really, really fanciful ideas involving Jordan that would have probably set the team back a good bit.

Not sure what the point of this thread is at this extremely late date, though.

Bingo.. for years, folks on here said that being on the 3rd line was stunting Jordan's potential and that he could contribute more if he was given impact minutes in a top-6 role.

Well, that theory got totally destroyed this year. I am just so glad that Staal didn't sign on the dotted line, as signing him for $60M would go down as one of the worst blunders in Penguins history. It would be Shero's Bobby Holik type contract.

Brandon Sutter is more than serviceable at the 3rd line role if you ask me.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Wasn't J.Staal supposed to be the guy to really help turn their anemic offense around, though? Everyone likes to say that Carolina just "isn't very good" offensively and poor Jordan shouldn't have to answer for that mess. Well... he's a huge part of it, the way I see it.

It doesn't help that the wingers he spent most of the year with on Carolina's 2nd line were considerably worse than the guys he was playing with on our 3rd line.

Patrick Dwyer will submarine anyone's stats.


Don't get me wrong, I think we absolutely dodged a bullet with the contract, but I think he's being dragged through the mud for his stats when his level of play was better than the stats would indicate. He's still made it clear that he's not going to be a consistent 60+ point guy, which is what is necessary for him to be worth that contract.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Right. His wingers weren't exactly brilliant. As a matter of fact they were pretty horrible. But he spent a good enough chunk of time with competent offensive players this year and last. Guess what was largely happening? The same thing that did here -- he proved mostly incapable of playing with them.

Again... it isn't his fault and I'm still not sure why we're even talking about it. But I watched the guy play a good bit, this season and last. He really just sorta is what he is, ya know? Always hated that pick, to be completely honest. Even moreso when they tried to prop him up as a second line center in place of one of the best in the world. Silliness.

 

[billybudd]

Here's three other threads about Staal. Best of luck finding a Canes fan that's displeased with his contract or performance in any of them.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1616307
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1602081
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1569005

We "dodged a bullet" only insofar as going from having the best third line in the league for about 5 years to one of the worst in the last 2 constitutes "dodging a bullet."

 

[Shady Machine]

Wasn't J.Staal supposed to be the guy to really help turn their anemic offense around, though? Everyone likes to say that Carolina just "isn't very good" offensively and poor Jordan shouldn't have to answer for that mess. Well... he's a huge part of it, the way I see it.

Not really his fault that he's a 3/2 tweener. Just not a great job by Rutherford (or Shero, for that matter) in assessing his offensive ceiling. Which it's looking like he already hit years ago. Not a great #2 overall, either. So yeah... happy that things worked out like they did. I suspect this team had some really, really fanciful ideas involving Jordan that would have probably set the team back a good bit.

Not sure what the point of this thread is at this extremely late date, though.

This is where I'm at with it. cassius created the thread to stroke his ego.

 

[wej20]

If they can actually find him some decent wingers he can be a solid 2nd line pivot.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Here's three other threads about Staal. Best of luck finding a Canes fan that's displeased with his contract or performance in any of them.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1616307
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1602081
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1569005

We "dodged a bullet" only insofar as going from having the best third line in the league for about 5 years to one of the worst in the last 2 constitutes "dodging a bullet."

We dodged a bullet because it makes absolutely zero sense to pay a third liner (which is what he'd be on the Pens for the entirety of that deal) $6 million per season. Especially when we have holes elsewhere that that money could be used to shore up.

I don't necessarily agree with cassius' entire post, but I do think he's right that Staal on the Pens makes zero sense at that price. Not when you've got a salary cap and have a finite amount to spend to fill out the rest of your lineup.

 

[Til the End of Time]

the staal situation established that shero is willing to overpay to keep the family together. staal, letang, scuderi, adams, dupuis, etc.

would anyone be suprised if he resigned orpik or fleury to absurd deals after this season?

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Total surprise that cass is the one who started this thread.

I didn't like the contract but Shero hasn't done **** with the cap savings he got from Staal to Sutter, so I'd rather have the much better player in Jordan. Had we kept Staal maybe Shero actually lets go of some of his ****** vets? Also, it all depends on what Sutter gets this summer. With the POs he having he could easily ask for 3-4M+ and you just know Shero will give it to him.

I'd rather Shero build around Sid and Geno, but because he simply refuses to do so I'd rather have Staal than Sutter.

 

[billybudd]

We're about to pay Sutter 4 million, unless we trade him. The difference between what he does for a team and what Jordan Staal does for a team is, and has been relatively radical over the entirety of their careers. Far more radical than that price difference.

People are too hung up on "this guy is a 3rd liner" "this guy is a second liner." Ales Hemsky can make $6 million because "he's a first liner." But Jordan Staal can't because "he's not a first liner." A team that wants to win doesnt' think like that.

It's more productive to think of players as guys who play X blocks of ice time and either win those minutes or lose them. Staal posts big wins in big ice time, despite playing Hellishly difficult minutes.

$6 million is something like 1/12 of a roster's cap space next season. That's nothing for a player that dominates territorially in the toughest minutes a forward can be given, regardless of whether he's got good support or garbage surrounding him.

 

[Gooch]

We're about to pay Sutter 4 million, unless we trade him. The difference between what he does for a team and what Jordan Staal does for a team is, and has been relatively radical over the entirety of their careers. Far more radical than that price difference.

People are too hung up on "this guy is a 3rd liner" "this guy is a second liner." Ales Hemsky can make $6 million because "he's a first liner." But Jordan Staal can't because "he's not a first liner." A team that wants to win doesnt' think like that.

It's more productive to think of players as guys who play X blocks of ice time and either win those minutes or lose them. Staal posts big wins in big ice time, despite playing Hellishly difficult minutes.

$6 million is something like 1/12 of a roster's cap space next season. That's nothing for a player that dominates territorially in the toughest minutes a forward can be given, regardless of whether he's got good support or garbage surrounding him.

It might not normally be a big deal but when you have Crosby and Malkin making basically 9 mill a year each and a super expensive long term deal to Letang you cannot really afford to overpay in other roles. It's a primary source of my criticism for Shero and his tendancy to ship picks and prospects for rentals. You need players playing above their cap hits to offset the the big contracts the team already has. Trading Staal was absolutely the right move the only problem is how it was handled since then. Over paying older veterans who's production has been inflated by playing with the greatest playmaker in the world is not exactly smart. Going all in and trading off good picks and prospects for a bottom 6'er and a guy your coach apparently didnt want anyways is not a smart move. So in a bubble this dodging of the Staal contract is very good for the team but in the reality of merely transfering what Staal wouldve gotten to Dupuis and guys like Tanner Glass... I am not so sure we're totally better off.

 

[cheesedanish87]

I'm happy how the Staal trade turned out and we still haven't seen how DP is going to turn out, if DP becomes the player people expect it will be a huge trade win for Shero.

 

[joeyjake5]

In the playoff loss to TB, Staal proved he was not a #1 center and with the Canes he proved he isn't even a # 2 center.

For Staal to reach his true potential he has to be put on LW with a good center and I don't think brother Eric is that center.