Do you still support Ken Holland and Mike Babcock?

Discussion in 'Detroit Red Wings' started by Cyborg Yzerberg, Oct 3, 2013.

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  1. Cyborg Yzerberg

    Cyborg Yzerberg Team Hughes

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    There's a lot of heated debate going on between our posters on this esteemed section. There's those defending Holland and defending Babcock, those, like me, who are absolutely pulling their hair out over their decisions concerning the roster, and those who defend one and not the other. I'm just curious what the numbers look like concerning our management and coaching. Have Holland and/or Babcock lost your support?
     
  2. RedWingsNow*

    RedWingsNow* Guest

    My support of Holland 3.5/10
    Still like his draft and believe he believes in puck possession hockey that I enjoy. I could easily get behind Holland if he'd regain some pre-cap swagger and post-cap smarts.

    My support of Babcock 1/10
    Sick of BS and cliche. Tired of his smirk. You can blame Kenny Holland all you want, but Tatar is there and he's in the press box. Babcock's misuse of veterans and rookies makes me wonder how much blame Holland really has in the transactions between GR and Detroit.
     
  3. The Zetterberg Era

    The Zetterberg Era RIP Fugu

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    Don't think either should be fired, but this is as low as I have been on Holland. Have very little faith in Babcock, his double speak is wearing thin on me as a fan cannot imagine how it's impacting the guys that have to hear it daily.

    Using RWN's system

    Holland 7/10 so Cish, needs to get back in touch with the more aggressive guy he used to be and care less about hurting feelings. I don't think tossing out proven management works very often in sports, but he needs to tweak how he is operating lately.

    Babcock 4/10 I don't want an extension, coaches have shelf limits, think his is about up. Babcock has a contract and right now I am not in a hurry to dump him, but really far off from extending him. As Blashill's name becomes a hotter commodity, we might have to make a tough organizational call and acknowledge who is better equipped to handle a team in transition with more youth.
     
  4. DRWCountryClub

    DRWCountryClub Registered User

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    If Babcock went to a team like the Rangers, or St. Louis, they might win the Cup.

    I'm really getting sick of his line ups, decisions, and ********. Nobody earns a roster spot, it's given to his favourites, and big guys. The fact that Tatar and Nyquist aren't on the roster is disgraceful.

    Is he an amazing coach? Yeah, but he can't seem to integrate new blood into the line up, nor create a scoring line.

    Some onus is on Holland for signing dan ****ING cleary, who is just a waste of a roster spot, and allows Babcock to play him all night instead of better players.
     
  5. Claypool

    Claypool Registered User

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    As long as they keep winning I don't care what they do.

    I think long term, however, it benefits having some youth in the lineup for experience.
     
  6. Unfinished Business

    Unfinished Business Registered User

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    I think preseason is too fresh and some decisions are too fresh. I am not furious that tatar is in pressbox first game or nyquist is in GR. Now I do not think we will win without more flexibility by babcock and kenny to fix some roster issues in the long run. Is a long season ahead of us. I will hold off going nuts till see what is going on. Now if we get in playoffs and still playing games and not solving some issues I AM GONNA BE PISSED and will want both on heads but im for firing everyone in govt that is a little extreme.

    On RNW scale I have more faith in Ken to ship some people out than I do in Mike on mixing up lines and trying new things. If Mike doesnt I think we will not be a cup team and that is just flat out BS and I put that on Mike so he would be first to go.
     
  7. DRWCountryClub

    DRWCountryClub Registered User

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    You don't care about solving issues with the roster until the playoffs? Really?

    Anyone else have a hard time reading what this guy says?
     
  8. TCNorthstars

    TCNorthstars Registered User

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    I support them. I won't lose faith until the Wings start to suck consistently.
     
  9. Fire Ken Holland

    Fire Ken Holland into outer space

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    Interesting. I still have faith in Babcock, but that's because I view him sort of like a dog; he can't control what he's going to do. If you give him a lump of chocolate, he'll eat it. If you give him Cleary, he'll play him. He's a great coach, but you have to limit him or he'll create a crazy lineup full of huge grinders and nothing more. His virtue is that he can take a normal roster and make them really systematic and responsible.

    The problem is that Holland doesn't limit him. In fact, Holland is just as bad in some respects. I think Holland's main fault (and I don't know where it comes from. Possibly Ilitch?) is that he's convinced that he MUST win the cup right, right now, but doesn't really have the personnel. In doing so, he gives guys like Tatar and Nyquist smaller roles instead of letting them grow. (and I'm not even in the 1st line camp. I think T and N should be on the 3rd line at the maximum to start.) I don't think Holland is stupid, but I think he has the wrong goals for right now. It's not going to help the team in the way that he thinks, and the time will pass anyway—and the Wings' prospects will lose chance after chance in the name of "competitiveness" and icing the best team possible with no regard for upside.

    Of the two, I think Holland is more incompetent. He's had more decisions to make, yes, but he's also made more bad decisions, and he does a poor job of keeping Babcock sane. Babcock, on the other hand, does a really good job. Maybe we don't like Babcock's philosophy, but I think it's hard to argue that he doesn't produce consistently and sometimes prolifically. The guy is a beast of a coach with a somewhat regressive philosophy of hockey.

    If I had to rank them:

    Babcock: 9

    Holland: 6
     
  10. Fire Ken Holland

    Fire Ken Holland into outer space

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    Yeah, Holland "allowed" Tatar to be on the roster, but he also did nothing to get rid of the dead weight. Knowing Babcock's tendencies, no wonder Tatar isn't playing. I think that's completely Holland's fault. He knows what Babcock does. Having Cleary, Sammy, etc. was the kiss of death for Tatar's icetime from the very start. Holland should have known.

    I think you make an astute point about the callups, though. The GM is generally the coach's boss, as far as I know (except in special situations like Roy and Colorado now). Holland should be able to assert authority over Babcock on roster issues. But that doesn't seem to happen here. It seems like a 50/50 split. That's a problem, because I think Babcock as a coach needs to have his rosters controlled by somebody else or he'll go crazy with them.
     
  11. GoAwayDanCleary

    GoAwayDanCleary DRWCC

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    Its time to move on.
     
  12. Shoalzie

    Shoalzie Trust me!

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    They make some weird choices but they have success to fall back on.
     
  13. Big Poppa Puck

    Big Poppa Puck HF's Villain

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    The 5th option was too hilarious for me not to vote for it.

    It's starting to get frustrating but they still have my support for now based on track records. That doesn't mean recent lineups and roster decisions haven't pissed me off though.
     
  14. Chance on Chance

    Chance on Chance Registered User

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    5/10 for both.

    For Holland he needs to decide what were gonna do. A re-tool which would work the kids into the lineup or a go for it. He seems to be on the fence. Looking at the roster we had way too many forwards and then he signed Cleary for some reason and didnt move anyone out. People keep saying well injuries will happen but thats not a way to go about things.

    Good things he's done - Got Jimmy on a good contract, needed a 2nd line center and got what I think is a good one, Kindl and Smith signed to nice contracts. 2010-2013 draft look really nice, 2007-2009 we need to see what they have, nows their time. Every other team has players playing and making an impact from thos draft years but us.

    Babs- I think coaches get stale after this long. Still a good coach but him and Holland seem to have different ideas on what direction the team should go. I think Babcock would like to coach a team like LA, St louis or the sharks who have bigger players and play more of a crash and bang style. He needs to start letting the kids play
     
  15. Vladdy84

    Vladdy84 L-O-Y-A-L-T-Y

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    Not recent success. Babcock has made it pretty clear in the past that the goal is to at least get to the final four (WCF/ECF). Wings haven't been there in a long while.
     
  16. TCNorthstars

    TCNorthstars Registered User

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    See ya. Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya!
     
  17. Heaton

    Heaton Registered User

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    Which is a fairly subjective way to look at it unless the only criteria we're using is Wings success in their most successful periods of time.

    I support Babcock, even if I don't like his line combos and some of his methods. He's still the best coach in the league in getting the team prepared and ready to do what they need to do. I feel that he has had influence on the roster and who is here and who isn't here, but I don't think he's saying, get me Cleary not someone who is clearly better etc...

    Holland? I still support to a point, I think these next 2 seasons will say a lot about how he manages this team with all of the prospects being close or ready. He still needs to adapt to not being so friendly with his players and make the team better.

    I don't think either should be fired, I doubt anyone could come in and do much better than what they've accomplished.
     
  18. SoupNazi

    SoupNazi We Miss You, Fugu. Rest in Peace.

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    Tatar is on the roster.
     
  19. Chance on Chance

    Chance on Chance Registered User

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    Its playing time. One side says well injuries will happen and he'll be rotated in and the other says well how many games? Cleary and Miller will probably never sit. That leaves Bert, Sammy, and Tootoo and Eaves when healthy. Eaves can be waived and Tootoo who knows. This still doesnt address Nyquist and I tihnk he may get screwed because they know once they play him 2 games they cant send him down again
     
  20. Vladdy84

    Vladdy84 L-O-Y-A-L-T-Y

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    If Tatar could be sent down without be exposed to waivers. He'd more than likely be playing with Gus in the AHL right now.
     
  21. ArGarBarGar

    ArGarBarGar Defense Please

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    But the fact is Tatar is still on the roster. That's the point.
     
  22. Yemack

    Yemack Registered User

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    they are the men with the plan
     
  23. Unfinished Business

    Unfinished Business Registered User

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    Hopefully LAST TIME. I do not take offense just tired of explaining things.

    I have a heart condition this effects blood oxygen levels at times I have major issues with expressing self how to type structure the whole 9 yards.

    Part of this therapy is to type work on something I have passion for love etc..

    Hence why I am here:) I apologize but have a real issue is not much can do about it.

    Memory is bad recall is terrible is going to get worse without a new heart is damage no blockage but basically I dont get enough oxygen throughout body in my blood stream get about a fourth of what a normal person gets.

    I do pretty well I think:)

    Sorry if is frustrating to read am doing the best I can.
     
  24. RedWingsNow*

    RedWingsNow* Guest

    I think the question is, can anyone come in and do much better than they WILL accomplish.
     
  25. skinneh

    skinneh #FireHolland

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    I support them. I don't agree with every decision.. Example: Nyquist down and Tatar on the bench, but as long as we win and make the playoffs I am happy.
     

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