Heaton
Moderator
I think the question is, can anyone come in and do much better than they WILL accomplish.
Holland? Maybe. Babcock? I don't think so.
I think the question is, can anyone come in and do much better than they WILL accomplish.
Holland? Maybe. Babcock? I don't think so.
Get a guy who pays attention to detail without being such a moron about Abdelkader and Cleary and rookies.
Get a guy in here who coaches puck possession hockey and who isn't afraid to use small, skilled players.
We'd be a better team.
You can't argue with success really. However, I am very disappointed in the Cleary signing, especially since Tatar/Nyquist are at the end of their rope in terms of the AHL.
But then again, Bert and Sammy are done next year, so maybe that's two spots for them to fill. Or am I being too optimistic with that?
I'd rather have a guy who knows how to win and how to get people prepared rather than make a lineup that all fans agree with. I don't think puck possession is the only way to win and while the Wings have moved away from the classic sense, it's still there with the best players.
The problem is talent. Holland hasn't reloaded talent, give Babcock more talented players and it'll be amazing how much better of a coach he 'becomes. Nyqusit and Tatar are good, but it's not enough and if you think Holland has given Babcock enough talent, I don't agree with that.
Most games won since he joined the league, most playoff games won (I think?) olympic gold etc... even though I don't agree with him all the time, I trust him more than I do Holland.
Get a guy who pays attention to detail without being such a moron about Abdelkader and Cleary and rookies.
Get a guy in here who coaches puck possession hockey and who isn't afraid to use small, skilled players.
We'd be a better team.
I think Babcock's wheelhouse is coaching and relying on established, veteran NHL players to carry the mail for him. And IMO he's not great at working young guys into the team (compounded by Holland's love affair with keeping guys past their prime on the roster).
I can see why Team Canada likes him, given his track record and that he's handed a roster of NHL stars. You can't take the gold medal away from him, but given the TC roster and Vancouver hosting those Olympics, I think plenty of coaches could have guided that team to win the gold.
I'm not sure that Babs is the best guy for the job in bringing along young players and working those guys into the lineup, and that'll be a big factor for the Wings in the next few seasons.
It'd be like losing with the 2002 Wings roster. You'd have to be pretty incompetent.I can see why Team Canada likes him, given his track record and that he's handed a roster of NHL stars. You can't take the gold medal away from him, but given the TC roster and Vancouver hosting those Olympics, I think plenty of coaches could have guided that team to win the gold.
I would like to physically show my frustration with this statement in the form of a .gifHolland on the other hand loves his vets, it's why he traded 8 first round picks or whatever. Its why he's always traded prospects. It's why he kept Chelios, Lilja, Maltby, Draper etc... for so long. It's why he brought back Jason Williams and signed Brad May..
I'd rather have a guy who knows how to win and how to get people prepared rather than make a lineup that all fans agree with. I don't think puck possession is the only way to win and while the Wings have moved away from the classic sense, it's still there with the best players.
The problem is talent. Holland hasn't reloaded talent, give Babcock more talented players and it'll be amazing how much better of a coach he 'becomes. Nyqusit and Tatar are good, but it's not enough and if you think Holland has given Babcock enough talent, I don't agree with that.
Most games won since he joined the league, most playoff games won (I think?) olympic gold etc... even though I don't agree with him all the time, I trust him more than I do Holland.
Nobody has won more in the league in Holland's job since he became one either and that is a much longer track record, so don't really understand when you make that point?
Who is a better coach Michel Therrien or Dan Byslma? In terms of preparing team and placing a system this isn't really close. Why did that work, changing the coaching voice often has the desired outcome you're going for.
Phil Jackson, Scotty Bowman, Chuck Daily, Terry Francona. Many of the better managers have spoken about the need to move from situations and the problem of a voice becoming stale.
Great general mangers need to tweak and keep up, Holland has fallen a little bit behind there, great coaches while some can be lifers the guys are particular hard on teams are going to have a shelf life. Babcock is a demanding coach and a guy that hard on a team and the fact is because of Babcock's accomplishments he does have a certain amount of power that I think you overlook. He gets a lot of say in who sticks around and who plays where. You want Holland to tie a hand behind his back and force his decision, quite frankly I would to see that. But he would throw a fit if Holland disrespected him like that, even if that is what needs to happen that kind of betrayal won't happen because each man respects the other a bunch.
No. Holland didn't sign Jason Williams and Brad May because he "loves his vets." (Seriously... I bet this Holland meme is only one year old, just proliferating from last year's offseason.) Holland signed Jason Williams and Brad May in 2009 because he needed to fill out a 23 man roster while having something that resembles cap space because of a CAP CRUNCH and a lack of viable prospect alternatives to turn to (because, you know, back in 2009 our farm system sucked). Vets with a $500,000 cap hit were pretty much all he could sign.
See, I don't think Babcock only likes veterans, he just has a hard time playing guys who are really only offense first. I think if Nyquist were here, he'd play over a veteran.
Holland on the other hand loves his vets, it's why he traded 8 first round picks or whatever. Its why he's always traded prospects. It's why he kept Chelios, Lilja, Maltby, Draper etc... for so long. It's why he brought back Jason Williams and signed Brad May.
Holland loves to keep all of his prospects and play them when he's exhausted all other options, he loves depth. He loves the way that if Bert gets hurt, guess what? We're not replacing him with some mediocre AHL player, we replace them with Nyquist or Tatar or XO or whatever. It's a weird way of doing business since you're not icing your best team, but he seems to change his mind during the playoffs.
Look at '08 and '09, a guy like Helm NEVER would've touched the ice in the regular season, but in the playoffs? He's in.