Do you see Kucherov having an argument for best Russian player of all time?

[daver]

If we go by adjusted points according to the formula used by HR it's Kucherov 128 vs. Fedorov 124. I'll take the Selke instead of the four more points without hesitation.

Adjusting using league GPG is faulty to the point of being useless. It only serves to back up people's biases.

Kucherov was clearly farther ahead of the other Top10/20 scorers than Fedorov was by about 10%. So let's make it 132 points for Kucherov.

 

[Albatros]

You think Kucherov would have beaten Gretzky? It's a brave guess.

 

[blundluntman]

For Kucherov to have an argument he'd have to maintain this level of post-season greatness throughout his career imo. If he could secure the title of greatest russian playoff performer while also having a few more 100 point level seasons, he'd have an argument in the very least. With that being said, I don't see him passing Ovechkin, he was a little too brilliant at his best for Kucherov to match primes with. The playoffs are the key for Kucherov.

 

[blundluntman]

Almost forgot this was a poll, I voted yes but only because they asked if he could not if he would. Those are 2 different arguments with different value.

 

[42]

Has an argument for second behind Ovechkin

Ovechkin isn't even the best undisputed Russian.

 

[geoo9]

Ovechkin isn't even the best undisputed Russian.

he is, what he doing is not even generational that is legendary stuff

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

For Kucherov to have an argument he'd have to maintain this level of post-season greatness throughout his career imo. If he could secure the title of greatest russian playoff performer while also having a few more 100 point level seasons, he'd have an argument in the very least. With that being said, I don't see him passing Ovechkin, he was a little too brilliant at his best for Kucherov to match primes with. The playoffs are the key for Kucherov.

Kucherov now shits on any ovechkin post 2010

 

[Zine]

he is, what he doing is not even generational that is legendary stuff

Ovechkin is the best goal-scorer the country has ever produced, by far. But that doesn't guarantee he's the best player.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

He still has some work to do to catch Ovechkin’s offensive dominance, but he’s quickly climbing the ladder.

Top 10 Point Seasons:

Ovechkin: 8
Kucherov: 4
Malkin: 4
Bure: 4
Datsyuk: 3
Fedorov: 2

His postseason success obviously speaks for itself and he’s still in his 20s with no signs of slowing down. Furthermore, I don’t see a reason why his style of game would fall off a cliff anytime soon. It’s not like he’s relying heavily on pure athleticism. So much of his game is his IQ and vision.

We obviously won’t know for another 5 years or so, but I think he can make a run at it (in terms of NHL success of course.)

 

[Gurglesons]

he is, what he doing is not even generational that is legendary stuff

Are we talking NHL or all time Russian?

Tretiak in my opinion is untouchable.

If we are talking NHL career. I think 1 and 2 are pretty easily Ovie then Malkin. Kucherov is gaining steam on Malkin though I wouldn't say at this point he is better. Some '90s lover is going to come in and say Federov and of course you'll get Datsyuk, but when comparing NHL trophy cases it easily goes Ovechkin then Malkin.

 

[viper0220]

Soviets lived, trained and played together all year. Those Canadian players had like a 2 week training camp together. Kind of an important point.

Soviet players trained for 8-10 hours a day, I read this somewhere.

I know for a fact Sovoet Military Special Forces trained for 12-14 hours a day, the same likely meant for Ice Hockey players.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

Russians players have to spread their greatness out over multiple settings, like Olympics or other tournaments. International play is more valued than NHL play. Kucherov wouldn't even have claim to best Russian in NHL since Ovechkin's career is going to be nigh impossible to surpass.

 

[geoo9]

Ovechkin is the best goal-scorer the country has ever produced, by far. But that doesn't guarantee he's the best player.

that is what we called Hockey and hardest thing at NHL - scoring goals. Nobody dominatred league such a long period in hadest thing to do as Ovie does. There is no other Russain who does same. Kucherov dominated league different way - scoring more than anyone at postseason (hardest thing to do too) - in more than 10 years but he is not close to hockey legends to beat their stuff.
there is no other Russian who dominated game at some aspect to compare.
Time will tell but Ovie is best right now

 

[Regal]

You think Kucherov would have beaten Gretzky? It's a brave guess.

A Gretzky that didn't receive a single Hart vote? Probably

 

[Shinjuku Calling]

Obviously not.

 

[rkwittem]

Fedorov and Ovechkin exist, therefore no. (Not to mention a slew of others that never crossed the Iron Curtain)

 

[Eternal Leaf]

Ovechkin is the greatest Russian NHLer I've seen.

A true generational talent and one of the more entertaining primes of all time. I don't think Kucherov is at that level but he is world-class.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

not enough mention of datsyuk in this thread.

 

[wetcoast]

Kucherov was a full tier ahead of everyone except McDavid. Federov's point total was solid but nothing spectacular. Kucherov would have put up close to 135 - 140 points in 93/94.

So how much do you value a Top 6 forward, whose primary contribution is offense, who produced 15% more than the player who brought an elite defensive game too?

FWIW, Federov's Hart win was not particularly strong that year whereas Kucherov's was.

People are also skimming over the high shooting % and the PP prowess of the line Kuch was on that year.

I remember posting this and saying he would regress ( which of course happened) while others were claiming even more points the next year.

Fedorov was also in a bit of a zone with his highest shooting % and most SOG that year but also was less reliant on the PP, played in all situations and carried around Ray Sheppard to a 50 goal season that year.

His Hart season is one of the more under appreciated seasons post expansion IMO.

 

[moropanov]

not enough mention of datsyuk in this thread.

Yes Datsyuk is in my opinion best player in history of Russian hockey. Soviet Era its hard to compare, but Datsyuk is right there as best modern era European forwards with Jagr and Forsberg.

 

[Habano]

Not even close lol

 

[daver]

not enough mention of datsyuk in this thread.

His best season (08/09) was, at best, on par with Malkin's 2nd best season and not comparable with OV's best season (arguably three best seasons).

A very good 2-way game for a Top 6 forward can serve to differentiate players with similar offensive resumes but not make up for a clear gap in production.

 

[bobholly39]

People are also skimming over the high shooting % and the PP prowess of the line Kuch was on that year.

I remember posting this and saying he would regress ( which of course happened) while others were claiming even more points the next year.

Fedorov was also in a bit of a zone with his highest shooting % and most SOG that year but also was less reliant on the PP, played in all situations and carried around Ray Sheppard to a 50 goal season that year.

His Hart season is one of the more under appreciated seasons post expansion IMO.

To the bolded....that's a positive thing, right?

 

[daver]

People are also skimming over the high shooting % and the PP prowess of the line Kuch was on that year.

I remember posting this and saying he would regress ( which of course happened) while others were claiming even more points the next year.

Fedorov was also in a bit of a zone with his highest shooting % and most SOG that year but also was less reliant on the PP, played in all situations and carried around Ray Sheppard to a 50 goal season that year.

His Hart season is one of the more under appreciated seasons post expansion IMO.

If you are pointing to Kucherov's 18/19 season as being a bit of a statistical anomaly, then you can also point to Federov's 93/94 season as being one too.

That being said, there is a similarity between comparing Kuch and Federov and Crosby and Kane for example, save for Crosby being ahead offensively.

 

[JoelWarlord]

No. Ovechkin was an instant superstar and went on to be the best goal scorer in the history of the game. Kucherov's probably just as good now as peak Ovechkin was, but it took him until he was 24 to really hit that level, while Ovechkin had 219 goals in his first 4 seasons (compared to 221 career for Kucherov now).

Super elite player and likely on a first ballot HOF trajectory but he's almost certainly too far behind Ovechkin for career numbers to close the gap with how good Ovechkin's been into his late 30s. And there's also Tretiak and all the other Soviet era guys to consider.