Do you make a trade for Drew Doughty?

[Gary Nylund]

No it really doesn't. That's like saying mackinnon stagnating after his rookie year suggests matthews may do the same. It is nonsensical

I said it suggests that he "may have" many good years left, not that it's a given that he does. Like I said, I would trust our management team to make that call and if they felt that Doughty had many good years left, I doubt there would good reason to question their judgement.

I'm sure you don't need a list of elite Dmen who have played at a very high level well past the age of 28, there have been more than a few.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Trading one of Marner/Nylander is hardly "gutting our team". And as far as loyalty goes, if Doughty wins 2 cups for us and then signs elsewhere, I think I can live with the lack of loyalty.

This talk of loyalty doesn't make much sense to me. It's a business, these are professionals we're talking about. If you sign a player to a contract, you should have right to expect that they play their best while you're paying them. You do not have the right to expect that they will never play elsewhere just like the players have no right to expect that the team will always be willing to resign them. This of the term "free agency" and think of what the word "free" means. Do you see how that works?

What is wrong with you? Yes trading one of Marner/Nylander is going to make our team worse if Doughty ends up walking, possibly even significantly worse. And as far as loyalty goes we can't expect him to sign with us if we don't win anything, and it would be highly idiotic to move a player like Marner or Nylander for two years of doughty and end up winning nothing

 

[Gary Nylund]

What is wrong with you? Yes trading one of Marner/Nylander is going to make our team worse if Doughty ends up walking, possibly even significantly worse. And as far as loyalty goes we can't expect him to sign with us if we don't win anything, and it would be highly idiotic to move a player like Marner or Nylander for two years of doughty and end up winning nothing

What is wrong with you? Why don't you do some work on your reading comprehension skills before barking at me? I was very clear in saying that I would be interested in trading for a resigned Doughty, I have zero interest in trading Marner/Nylander for two years of Doughty.

 

[Fogelhund]

What is wrong with you? Yes trading one of Marner/Nylander is going to make our team worse if Doughty ends up walking, possibly even significantly worse. And as far as loyalty goes we can't expect him to sign with us if we don't win anything, and it would be highly idiotic to move a player like Marner or Nylander for two years of doughty and end up winning nothing

That is why a trade won't happen until next year, if one happens....After July 1st next year, he can be signed to an extension... you make that trade if you can negotiate a new contract with him...

 

[ACC1224]

What is wrong with you? Yes trading one of Marner/Nylander is going to make our team worse if Doughty ends up walking, possibly even significantly worse. And as far as loyalty goes we can't expect him to sign with us if we don't win anything, and it would be highly idiotic to move a player like Marner or Nylander for two years of doughty and end up winning nothing

I'm sure the assumption can be made that any move means he re-signs here.

How do you win "nothing"?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

What is wrong with you? Why don't you do some work on your reading comprehension skills before barking at me? I was very clear in saying that I would be interested in trading for a resigned Doughty, I have zero interest in trading Marner/Nylander for two years of Doughty.

You never said that to me, you only said it wouldn't be gutting our team and went on some rant about how you don't understand why loyalty is important here

 

[Gary Nylund]

You never said that to me, you only said it wouldn't be gutting our team and went on some rant about how you don't understand why loyalty is important here

The only one ranting here is you. If your not able to follow this discussion because you haven't read what I've posted over the last hour or so, that's your problem, not mine.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

The only one ranting here is you. If your not able to follow this discussion because you haven't read what I've posted over the last hour or so, that's your problem, not mine.

why would I care to go back to read what you think when you're the one who replied to me? If it's important in addressing my comment, you should have mentioned it

 

[Dog]

Doughty first would have to want to come to Toronto. The next option would be contract extension if thats secured would not trade Marner or Nylander. Instead would be package deal of draft picks and prospects. So example be like next two years number 1 draft pick, Liljegren, and JVR or Bozak.

 

[ULF_55]

Really tough, but getting a premier defender while the Leafs are on the upswing, for the cost of a Marner/Nylander?

I'd want some insurance about not losing him for nothing in 2 years.

Marner/Nylander, Leivo/Richel ,Carrick/Dermott and a conditional 2nd./1st.
for
Doughty and a conditional 1st.

If Leafs re-sign Doughty LA gets 2nd.
If Leafs win Cup in next 2 years LA gets 1st.

If Doughty walks Leafs get 1st.

LA could win the deal long term, but Doughty could be the difference maker in winning the Cup.

I think strength down the middle, along with defense and goaltending is better than all offense.

I'd rather do a deal for an Erik Johnson level defender using lessor assets.

 

[zeke]

Absolutely.

but no chance any of Matthews, Marner, or Nylander can be in that deal.

 

[ToneDog]

So we have a problem fitting Doughty's contract in right now, but everyone wants to add him as a FA in two years (without moving one of the young stars). How do we figure without moving one of their salaries we fit him in as a FA, but making a deal now won't work?

When aquiring Drew "Norris Trophy winning, 28 yr old top 5 dman in the game" Doughty, you make the cap f***in work. We are talking elite dman in the game!

You have no idea what our cap situation will be in 2 years. I do agree with making the cap work in order to fit him in now but that might mean giving away a JVR and/or Bozak and possibly other assets in order to shed salary.

 

[fahad203]

Few years ago I was drooling over this guy but seeing the emergence of talent in this league just changed that thought

If we trade for him, we are going to give up one of our top prospects and draft picks. If we are doing that, are we then not better going after a younger D?

I rather opt out.

 

[Gary Nylund]

why would I care to go back to read what you think when you're the one who replied to me? If it's important in addressing my comment, you should have mentioned it

Actually, you were the one who replied to a post that I made in response to someone else - here's that post.

The fact that Marleau is still good despite being almost 11 years older than Doughty suggests that Doughty may have many good years left.

Note the phrase "may have many good years left".

The problem here is that you jumped into a conversation and you made assumptions about what was being discussed. Had you read the previous posts, you would have knows that we were discussing a trade for a resigned Doughty. Even without that, the phrase "many good years left" should have been a big hint.

You seem to having a bad day, I suggest you just drop it. Cheers!

 

[ULF_55]

You have no idea what our cap situation will be in 2 years. I do agree with making the cap work in order to fit him in now but that might mean giving away a JVR and/or Bozak and possibly other assets in order to shed salary.

Right now they'd have to do something, maybe involving players like Horton and Lupul and a real player.

 

[ToneDog]

Absolutely.

but no chance any of Matthews, Marner, or Nylander can be in that deal.

No chance you are getting Doughty without giving up a package of Marner++ or Nylander++ unless you include Matthews (and that isn't happening) or a package including 4 or 5 1st round picks.

Hence why I personally am only interested in him as a UFA.

Note: I would consider a 1 for 1 for Marner, or Nylander but then you would have to deal with the cap.

 

[thewave]

Neither, no thanks.

 

[Gary Nylund]

That is fair , I agree.

I'm not a fan of trading young stars or picks for established players, but what you said is fair.

As a rule, I'm not a fan of that either and normally I would say do it only if the player we're getting could put us over the top. Doughty is a special case though and if he was even a couple of years older I wouldn't do it either. The reason I would do it is because as I said, he may have many good years left but I would certainly need to have all our experts go over his medical history with a fine tooth comb and make their best judgement in this case. If they think he can be an all-star level player at around age 35 then fine, if not I'll take my chances with what we have now.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Actually, you were the one who replied to a post that I made in response to someone else - here's the post I was responding to.



Note the phrase "may have many good years left".

The problem here is that you jumped into a conversation and you made assumptions about what was being discussed. Had you read the previous posts, you would have knows that we were discussing a trade for a resigned Doughty. Even without that, the phrase "many good years left" should have been a big hint.

You seem to having a bad day, I suggest you just drop it. Cheers!

do you not realize that was a completely different discussion? Whether he has good years left because of Marleau is what I was addressing

 

[zeke]

No chance you are getting Doughty without giving up a package of Marner++ or Nylander++ unless you include Matthews (and that isn't happening) or a package including 4 or 5 1st round picks.

I don't think so. We have a trade history to look at for stud defenders, like say Pronger. or Blake. or Chelios.

They didn't cost the likes of Marner and Nylander - even in pre-cap nhl where ELC's were much less of a factor.

 

[TheBigThree]

No I wouldn't trade marner

 

[Trapper]

If Doughty is getting traded I'm defenitly in the mix.
What the ask is, I can't say but I'm pushing.
You get to a point in your franchise build where you are in the position to add the final piece. The piece that makes the trade worth it because you have the core. Doughty would be that piece.

 

[thewave]

I don't think so. We have a trade history to look at for stud defenders, like say Pronger.

They didn't cost the likes of Marner and Nylander - even in pre-cap nhl where ELC's were much less of a factor.

Exactly. People paying that are not so great guaging values.

 

[slozo]

Does nothing.

If we trade for Doughty, it'll cost us Marner or Nylander to begin with.

I don't do the trade. I'd love to have Doughty here, but we can't make deals that only benefit us short-term. And any time a player is about to hit UFA, especially a high-value add such as this, there'll be so many suitors that the chance for any team to get him is pretty slim.

We shouldn't take chances with our core.

Agreed, and I'll go one further:

The trade "ask" for top-end defencemen is so exorbitant, that it's utterly not worth it, and usually detrimental to a team's make-up.

The entire marketplace for defencemen and their perceived value I feel is quite out of whack with reality in today's game, I feel. Much like the cost of a very good goalie is out of whack on the other side of the ledger.

Bottom line,
We have two, probably 3 pretty good d-men in Rielly and Gardiner and now Zaitsev, top 4-ish to 2-ish defencemen, depending on the year and how their development goes. Neither Adding cheap additions who compliment these guys into a very solid system, sounds good enough to me for a deep run at the cup in the future. At the very least, until future d-man prospects grow and blossom.

 

[zeke]

Pronger (30) for Brewer (26), Woywitka (22, 27th overall), Lynch (22, 2nd round pk)

Pronger (31) for Lupul (23), Smid (20, 9th overall), +2 1sts & 1 2nd

Pronger (34) for Lupul (26), Sbisa (20, 19th overall), +2 1sts

Blake (31) + Reinprecht (24) for Deadmarsh (25), Miller (29), + 2 1sts