Love the talent on the team, but for some reason I can't latch on to them as I have teams in years past.
Do You Like The Current Team As Much As Recent Years?
- Thread starter Goose
- Start date
Mess
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Marner, Tavares, Matthews, Rielly, Kapanen, AJ etc all had career years and we will need them to repeat.
Leafs PP in 2017-18 with JVR and Bozak performed at 24.9 (2nd in the NHL) behind only Pens & Komarov the previous year was Leafs best PK player as Leafs PK dropped from 81.4 to 79.1 and was brutal in the playoffs as Leo also took PK draws.
Matthews, JT and Kadri were all =+30 goal scorers and now Kerfoot << Kadri.
I think Leafs defensively are going to be in trouble after ended up 18th in goals against and now could give up more goals.. The went from 232 GA to 251 GA giving up almost 20 more goals last year.
They were a 105 point All time franchise best team in 2017-18 and have declined to 100 points last season and now we will have to see the impact of paying 4 forwards 1/2 your cap is going to impact the team. Hopefully Leafs are able overcome that as they will be easier now for the opposition to try and defend and keep in check.
Suntouchable13
Registered User
I would rather pay our stars as opposed to paying 5M a year for Bozak or give Koma 12M over 3 years or pay JvR 7M. On paper, last season's team was better than the 105 point team. They underachieved.
Kadri wasn't a 30 goal scorer once Tavares arrived. And while Kadri>>Kefoot........Barrie>>>>Hainsey
Not sure where you got 232 and 251 GA.......looking at the goalie stats I see 221 to 233. Sparks in 17 starts gave up 58 whereas the prior year McIlhinney only gave up 35 in 15 starts
Not sure why you think they will give up more goals with a full year of Muzzin & Barrie replacing Gardiner and Hainsey.
Went from 105 points to 100 without Nylander for a good chunk of the season, 6 fewer starts by Freddie but they added JT. Pretty much a wash IMO
Not sure it's quite as bleak as the picture you are trying to paint.
moon111
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- Oct 18, 2014
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I know Marleau, as a UFA, signed for $1.75 million more then Kadri. And played in more games. It feels like many fans consider the gap between Marleau and Kadri to be slightly exaggerated.
Kadri 16 goals, 15 first assists,13 secondary assists
Marleau 16 goals, 15 first assists, 6 secondary assists.
Personally, I think any excitement for the team comes from optimism. I think putting Matthews on without a play-maker and great checker might of hurt his stats this season, but might of improved his game coming into this season. I'm more excited about Matthew's potential coming into this season then Marner. I think Marner will Marner, but I don't know how he'll grow his game. I know Spezza might of lost a step, but Dallas looks like a team that could of used Connor Brown in the top six. And I really think we'll look back and wonder how we ever got along with Polak and Zaitsev.
Kadri 16 goals, 15 first assists,13 secondary assists
Marleau 16 goals, 15 first assists, 6 secondary assists.
Personally, I think any excitement for the team comes from optimism. I think putting Matthews on without a play-maker and great checker might of hurt his stats this season, but might of improved his game coming into this season. I'm more excited about Matthew's potential coming into this season then Marner. I think Marner will Marner, but I don't know how he'll grow his game. I know Spezza might of lost a step, but Dallas looks like a team that could of used Connor Brown in the top six. And I really think we'll look back and wonder how we ever got along with Polak and Zaitsev.
Slightly exaggerated.....lol
Kadri brough significantly more to the table then Marleau did. Marleau had top 6 minutes throughout the season and produced worse then Kadri in sole 3rd line role. Kadri also played center.
- Feb 9, 2007
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If you can't like this core and the fact that dead weight has been removed, all I can say is this is why we can't have nice things and you may have to wait a while (start brushing up on the 2030 draft) before the team is to your liking.
- Feb 9, 2007
- 10,188
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This is the HF factor. When you suck, it sucks. But when you are good and have to make big boy decisions and reality sets in, fun is over and the make believe fantasy is over.
That one year, when you have your shiny new toys under 0 pressure, that's the year to fantasize about the 4 cups coming in the next 5 years. Ranger, Devil, Hab and Canuck fans are gonna be loving life this year.
Jack Bauer
Registered User
Love the team and how it's been assembled.
Hate the social media aspect of everyone feeling to need to chime in with every 'sky is falling' theory when it comes to cap space, contracts, and how the roster is coming together. People are too consumed in the media aspect hoping players like Nylander get traded for a #1 defenceman to rehash a 2 year old argument on a forum then they are with how well players did in actual games or even to enjoy things like consecutive 100 point seasons.
Finding it easier and considerably more satisfying to be more of a fan and less of a critic these last few years. Some can't do 1 without the other. Some masquerade as one while only being the other.
Love our collective passion. But the constant negativity of some makes discussion unbearable and makes me wonder why they even watch when their satisfaction only stems from negativity.
Nobody does it perfectly. No GM only makes good deals. No players develop or regress on linear paths. You can not like Nylander's style or contract negotiations without cheering for him to fail as a Maple Leaf on the ice representing our team. You can like Rielly and still think another top D is needed without shitting on the #4 we do have playing above his ability but below the caliber of other teams #4.
It's a shame for those growing up with the game in the social media world as many will be lost along the way in a generation that wants instant results and actually feels entitled to them. Those of us long sufferers who still remember Gilmour's wrap around and the aura those 48 hours or so created around this team won't be lost any time soon. We can't wait to celebrate our ultimate victory.
Hate the social media aspect of everyone feeling to need to chime in with every 'sky is falling' theory when it comes to cap space, contracts, and how the roster is coming together. People are too consumed in the media aspect hoping players like Nylander get traded for a #1 defenceman to rehash a 2 year old argument on a forum then they are with how well players did in actual games or even to enjoy things like consecutive 100 point seasons.
Finding it easier and considerably more satisfying to be more of a fan and less of a critic these last few years. Some can't do 1 without the other. Some masquerade as one while only being the other.
Love our collective passion. But the constant negativity of some makes discussion unbearable and makes me wonder why they even watch when their satisfaction only stems from negativity.
Nobody does it perfectly. No GM only makes good deals. No players develop or regress on linear paths. You can not like Nylander's style or contract negotiations without cheering for him to fail as a Maple Leaf on the ice representing our team. You can like Rielly and still think another top D is needed without shitting on the #4 we do have playing above his ability but below the caliber of other teams #4.
It's a shame for those growing up with the game in the social media world as many will be lost along the way in a generation that wants instant results and actually feels entitled to them. Those of us long sufferers who still remember Gilmour's wrap around and the aura those 48 hours or so created around this team won't be lost any time soon. We can't wait to celebrate our ultimate victory.
ToDavid
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- Dec 13, 2018
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They also went 7-2 in the shootout in 2017-18 which is generally random. This past season they had more four more ROW than they did in 2017-18. A few players had career years but a few also had terrible years, including Kadri (Kadri > Kerfoot in general, but 2018-19 Kadri was snakebitten as hell and only scored one more goal and two more points than Kerfoot did last season), Nylander, Marleau, and Brown with the latter two being given far too many minutes. This upcoming season we should see some additional development from Trevor Moore as well as potentially from Johnsson and Kapanen.
D is also significantly upgraded. On paper it can look like a wash but context is everything. Last season we didn't have Gardiner + Muzzin for the vast majority of the year and when we did Gardiner was banged up and the pairings were being shuffled constantly. Barrie playing a significant role in the top four, on the right side, for the entire year is a huge upgrade on an injured Gardiner playing deeper in the lineup on the left side. Dermott hopefully gets his chance to prove himself with more minutes as well.
No. You had ex war veterans who would BLEED for victory and their own teammates back in the day. Now the league is as drama centered and greedy as it's ever been. These *kids* on the leafs and every other team would go to the ends of the earth to negotiate for another million dollars. The media is getting more and more ridiculous for their clicks and publicity, and social media too. Everything results in memes or overreactions/arguments.
AND.. Jim Hughson and Craig Simpson are the voice of the leafs ON TOP OF ALL THAT??? Damn
AND.. Jim Hughson and Craig Simpson are the voice of the leafs ON TOP OF ALL THAT??? Damn
Maple Leaf
VIP
- Sep 18, 2009
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This team sucks compared to when we were rolling Sundin and Roberts
Bunch of prima donnas
Dam
Bunch of prima donnas
Dam
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Peasy
Registered User
Hey guess what, the stars before the salary cap were making more than what they are making today.
Let that sink in the next time you call them greedy.
Maple Leaf
VIP
- Sep 18, 2009
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Nah these pesky kids who have won nothing have ruined our cap and made it harder for us to win a cup
Daisy Jane
everything is gonna be okay!
- Jul 2, 2009
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the reason why we couldn't get out of the first round in the last three years were
1: Anderson not being the better goalie 2 of the last 3 seasons.
This season he was much better until game seven but we shouldn't even have been in game seven. a part of the reason why Andersen wasn't good was because Babcock rode Andy into the ground.
2: Lack of centre depth.
Lou failed to address it in year 1, and Kadri twice shot the team in the foot, including this year when we had the advantage.
He's gone now, so that liability is gone.
3: God-Awful Powerplay.
The Leafs the last three years have been 2nd, 2nd, top 10 in the powerplay. in the playoffs they were dead last.
4: God-Awful Penalty Kill.
If you can't score on the powerplay, you better stop the penalty kill, and they couldn't do that either.
blaming the the failures of the team on being soft (which drives me insane because the last two seasons the Leafs, outside of Game 2 two years ago) has matched the Bruins hit for hit, and hasn't been intimidated by it. thinking that this is the only thing that will make the Leafs amazingly better simply is not true. 1 through 4 is. now. don't get me wrong. if they address one through four, and we still struggle, then sure. maybe we can look at their "perceived" softness. but that - is like. dead last on the things they need to address on this team.
Americanadian
Registered User
I am not in love with the team although I enjoy watching the skill. If Matthews gets named captain over Mo I will dislike the team. Matthews exemplifies all that is wrong with this team - taking games off, poor defensively, no push back, ridiculous contract demands (McDavid comparable).
yubbers
Grown Menzez
- May 1, 2013
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Fair points. But soft teams don't make it through 4 rounds. They just don't. I would love nothing more than a playoff round victory. But that's not the goal. I get the game is getting more focused on skill and speed. But it's still blatantly clear you need a team that will stick up for themselves and each other to prevail in the playoffs. We're softer that ever before. I can't remember a team ever being this buttery. Maybe I'm just a cranky old man saying 'why is the game I love changing?' but I don't think that's it
I don't like the vision Dubas appears to have for the most part. We're gonna waste our Matthews years. We already regressed in overall points his first year at the helm with the addition of JT. Which could mean nothing. But I'm willing to bet that happens again this year.
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
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Fair points. But soft teams don't make it through 4 rounds. They just don't. I would love nothing more than a playoff round victory. But that's not the goal. I get the game is getting more focused on skill and speed. But it's still blatantly clear you need a team that will stick up for themselves and each other to prevail in the playoffs. We're softer that ever before. I can't remember a team ever being this buttery. Maybe I'm just a cranky old man saying 'why is the game I love changing?' but I don't think that's it
I don't like the vision Dubas appears to have for the most part. We're gonna waste our Matthews years. We already regressed in overall points his first year at the helm with the addition of JT. Which could mean nothing. But I'm willing to bet that happens again this year.
Watching the Raptors successful championship run was a nice reminder of why we fall in love with teams. Beyond the winning, there's also the perseverance in pressure situations, personal heroics, sacrifice and team chemistry coming out to the fore, taking on different opponents and adapting on the fly, all that good stuff.
Hopefully the Leafs go on that journey soon. But I would be happier with the program if the Leafs management team looked like they were building a team that could take on all comers and not be this poster child for "skill skill skill."
Skill is the best thing in the game, but I wish they'd pay all the other stuff some attention too.
Havoc
Registered User
- Jul 25, 2009
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Probably because of the snooze fest from february to april due to our defence trying to launch the puck into outer space every time they had the puck.
Some of the ugliest hockey we've ever seen.
Daisy Jane
everything is gonna be okay!
- Jul 2, 2009
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Fair points. But soft teams don't make it through 4 rounds. They just don't. I would love nothing more than a playoff round victory. But that's not the goal. I get the game is getting more focused on skill and speed. But it's still blatantly clear you need a team that will stick up for themselves and each other to prevail in the playoffs. We're softer that ever before. I can't remember a team ever being this buttery. Maybe I'm just a cranky old man saying 'why is the game I love changing?' but I don't think that's it
I don't like the vision Dubas appears to have for the most part. We're gonna waste our Matthews years. We already regressed in overall points his first year at the helm with the addition of JT. Which could mean nothing. But I'm willing to bet that happens again this year.
again. not true.
the Leafs are not "soft" because a soft team doesn't match a physical team hit for hit. like i don't know what people want the Leafs to do - pretend it's 1970 and go all Broad street bully or something and sorry - the Leafs could "stick up" for each other, and we still can lose.. i don't think the team needs to "stick up" for every single perceived slight and legal hit. and i feel a lot of people go "OMG SO SOFT."
I know i am the kind of person who i'd rather burn your butt where it matters most (winning) vs. burning your butt because i kicked it hard. that doesn't make me soft, that just means i'd like to pick my place.
and this nonsense that we're "regressing." - (sorry i saw this with mess too and I was going to comment on it so this isn't just you). we're not going to always "surpass" points. and blaming this on having JT is just silly nonsense.
don't get me wrong. I am not huge fan of dubas. but getting mad that he wants to have a talented team - when for the most part, the general managers of this team for the last 15+ years wouldn't know talent for the most part if it came up and introduce themselves - drives me nuts. it's like people would rather the team be poop, but physical and then they can clap their hands and go "at least we're tough, tho."
(note. again. i'm not dismissing the fact that the team does need to be "tough. - but i do think they are. they just aren't 2000 Darcy Tucker vs whole Ottawa Senator Bench tough. - and i think people need to accept this this is a team that's going to pick and choose their battles when to lose their collective crap - and that's okay and that doesn't mean that they are soft.).
MattySnipes
Registered User
Love the team more than ever. Thrilled to have Barrie in the fold. Hopefully Mike works smart this year, and not just hard.
Leaf4Life
Registered User
- Feb 8, 2010
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Like? Yes. Love? No.
I much prefer the Gilmour and Sundin prime years and was way more passionate about those teams than this one. Can't quite put a finger on why but it's probably something to do with Babcock and the general lack of heart and soul. When the Gilmour/Sundin teams lost I felt they left it ALL on the ice (exception is the Game 6 loss to Devils in 2000 - yikes). This team? Not so much... I just don't feel like they did everything they could to win.
I much prefer the Gilmour and Sundin prime years and was way more passionate about those teams than this one. Can't quite put a finger on why but it's probably something to do with Babcock and the general lack of heart and soul. When the Gilmour/Sundin teams lost I felt they left it ALL on the ice (exception is the Game 6 loss to Devils in 2000 - yikes). This team? Not so much... I just don't feel like they did everything they could to win.
Seath The Scaleless
Paledrake
Yes. We certainly have the roster to win the cup.
Not so sure about the coach, however. Either he improves or gets the boot.
Not so sure about the coach, however. Either he improves or gets the boot.
Leaf4Life
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- Feb 8, 2010
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Myopic
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- Feb 26, 2017
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I said all last season that the team is unwatchable. The players are soft and unlikable. It does have a lot of talent but they play like it's an NBA all-star game. They don't give a F about playing defense and they are as scared to hit and get hit to make a play.. I HATE soft teams. Marner is now dead to me. I thought being a Toronto kid he'd give the team a home discount. His true colors are on full display this off-season. eff him! He shouldn't make more than Aho at 8.5M/year. I'd let him sit the entire season.
I thought they were building a team that will have a decades long run of legit cup contention. The idiot GM is clearly mortgaging the future for THIS SEASON TO WIN IT ALL. Ridiculous. They gave up massive assets for players on 1-2 year contracts that will be too expensive to keep when they are true cup contenders. I was 100% correct when I said Dubas misjudged the rebuild timeline when acquiring Muzzin. He'll probably be gone if/when they are serious contenders. They won't win crap with a soft lineup where playoff hockey is a different game.
end of rant.
I thought they were building a team that will have a decades long run of legit cup contention. The idiot GM is clearly mortgaging the future for THIS SEASON TO WIN IT ALL. Ridiculous. They gave up massive assets for players on 1-2 year contracts that will be too expensive to keep when they are true cup contenders. I was 100% correct when I said Dubas misjudged the rebuild timeline when acquiring Muzzin. He'll probably be gone if/when they are serious contenders. They won't win crap with a soft lineup where playoff hockey is a different game.
end of rant.
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