Do You Like The Current Team As Much As Recent Years?

[Boutette]

Shannahan decided to let 3 of the more important contracts this franchise has seen in over a decade, be handled by the greenest GM ever. Why they didn't keep Lou around to handle Willy and AM is beyond me.

And it's gone about as bad as it could possibly go. Hiring Dubas always has been and will be looked at in the future as a mistake IMHO.

The same way that Hiring Lou will have seemed?

 

[yubbers]

Probably because Shanahan saw Lou handle the Marleau and Zaitsev contracts and realized Dubas couldn't be any worse. Judging by Lou's time on NYI, he was right

So Lou holds the record for having a player hold out on him in the cap era? Or is that Dubas?

Remind me what team went further last year again?

 

[Stephen]

Lou's absolute weakness since the cap era is he's prone to useless little tinkering moves that don't bring a ton of value and come at a significant salary or loss of picks.Most of those veteran add ons during his time in Toronto either just chewed up cap or bled out assets while taking away from the build. On the Island, same thing. Penny wise on Lehner, pound foolish on Varlamov, Martin, Komarov.

 

[justafan22]

Lou's absolute weakness since the cap era is he's prone to useless little tinkering moves that don't bring a ton of value and come at a significant salary or loss of picks.Most of those veteran add ons during his time in Toronto either just chewed up cap or bled out assets while taking away from the build. On the Island, same thing. Penny wise on Lehner, pound foolish on Varlamov, Martin, Komarov.

Oh and for 2 straight seasons not signing a 4c in the offseason while giving up two 2nds in the process

 

[notDatsyuk]

Probably because Shanahan saw Lou handle the Marleau and Zaitsev contracts and realized Dubas couldn't be any worse. Judging by Lou's time on NYI, he was right

Lou's time on the island? You mean where he joined a team that missed the playoffs the year before, while allowing the most goals in the league, and had just lost their best player; and turned them into the best defensive team, who went farther in the playoffs than the Leafs?

 

[Ryan Michaels]

Lou's time on the island? You mean where he joined a team that missed the playoffs the year before, while allowing the most goals in the league, and had just lost their best player; and turned them into the best defensive team, who went farther in the playoffs than the Leafs?

Well, the poster you quoted was talking about contracts, do you like their contracts? If someone said Seabrook had a bad contract do you think an appropriate rebuke would be "Seabrook won cups!"? Does that somehow preclude a bad contract?

 

[Menzinger]

Well, the poster you quoted was talking about contracts, do you like their contracts? If someone said Seabrook had a bad contract do you think an appropriate rebuke would be "Seabrook won cups!"? Does that somehow preclude a bad contract?

I dont know why anyone would look at how they handled some of those free agency contracts this offseason and think thas the kind of model we'd like on the Leafs.

 

[Pookie]

The contract stuff I feel has turned a not insignificant number of people off from the team. Some of us take it personally that the guys would hold out on contract negotiations rather than just signing and being ready to play with the team. I don’t mind that players want to be payed but it does rub me the wrong way that these contracts so far aren’t team friendly in the slightest and that we’re being forced to pay a premium to players who haven’t accomplished much of anything so far in this league. Once the final headache is signed no one will care but for now it’ll remain an annoyance until one side decides to budge.

Shanahan didn’t help by trying to leverage “greed” and make false statements about how he and others in Detroit took a discount in the non cap era to keep the team together.

He sold a section of the public on the idea that if you wanted to be a Leaf, you had to give up the idea of being paid market value contracts. And if you didn’t, you weren’t the kind of player he wanted.

In the end, they inked Nylander and Matthews to big contracts and folks are left with the idea... wait, didn’t you say something about their character here? Are these the guys we want?

 

[Ryan Michaels]

I dont know why anyone would look at how they handled some of those free agency contracts this offseason and think thas the kind of model we'd like on the Leafs.

Yeah I mean, I'm not even an anti-Lou guy, I think he played a big part in getting the Leafs back to respectibility but he hasn't handled contracts well for a long time. The Dubas detractors ***** and moan about Nylander and Matthews' contracts meanwhile we just had to give away a first to ditch a guy who we paid 6.25 last year for slightly above replacement level play. Martin was a healthy scratch with multiple years left on his deal, Zaistev got 7 years off a very small sample size of average play. Were these deals gambles worth making? Maybe, but he lost constantly.

Lee's contract will be bad, Komarov signed an albatross, Varlamov could be good but he drove away a guy who was a Vezina finalist in their system already to pay him the same amount on longer term. There's very little to like about Lou's contracts.

 

[Pookie]

Yeah I mean, I'm not even an anti-Lou guy, I think he played a big part in getting the Leafs back to respectibility but he hasn't handled contracts well for a long time. The Dubas detractors ***** and moan about Nylander and Matthews' contracts meanwhile we just had to give away a first to ditch a guy who we paid 6.25 last year for slightly above replacement level play. Martin was a healthy scratch with multiple years left on his deal, Zaistev got 7 years off a very small sample size of average play. Were these deals gambles worth making? Maybe, but he lost constantly.

Lee's contract will be bad, Komarov signed an albatross, Varlamov could be good but he drove away a guy who was a Vezina finalist in their system already to pay him the same amount on longer term. There's very little to like about Lou's contracts.

Well Lou also took a longer term gamble with Rielly and Kadri.

Those were good contracts.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Well, the poster you quoted was talking about contracts, do you like their contracts? If someone said Seabrook had a bad contract do you think an appropriate rebuke would be "Seabrook won cups!"? Does that somehow preclude a bad contract?

I only replied to his comment about Lou's time on the island, where I see success, but no bad contracts.

As for Marleau and Zaitsev, 'bad' is an opinion. Marleau's may have been a year too long, and Zaitsev's may still look pretty good, given different circumstances.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Well Lou also took a longer term gamble with Rielly and Kadri.

Those were good contracts.

They were fair market deals that did end up paying off, but hardly something to write home about when you look at his entire body of work. It's extremely unlikely Lou would've done better with the cap situation

 

[Goose]

They are Team guys.
They are just making sure they get paid their fare share.

When players take less money it lowers the market for other players.

So by being firm on their demands they are in fact increasing the wage of their peers.

There’s a set amount of money available.

Doesn’t taking less money for themselves mean more money for their peers? What am I missing here?

Holding out for max dollars increases the discrepancy between the players, it doesn’t increase the overall amount players are paid?

 

[smitty10]

Yes, I love the look of this year's team. I think we're one 3rd pairing right handed D away from being solid through the whole lineup.

- We just moved out our most frustrating and overpaid players. Zaitsev, Marleau and Brown are all gone!

- We likely won't have to watch Sparks this year.

- Our defense is vastly upgraded since the start of last season. Adding Muzzin and Barrie are huge additions. The jury is out on Ceci.

- Our forward group ranks amongst the top in the league.

What's not to like? This maybe the best team we've seen in Toronto in generations.

 

[Menzinger]

I only replied to his comment about Lou's time on the island, where I see success, but no bad contracts.

As for Marleau and Zaitsev, 'bad' is an opinion. Marleau's may have been a year too long, and Zaitsev's may still look pretty good, given different circumstances.

It took a 1st round pick to get rid of Marleaus contract. Pretty much viewed universally viewed as toxic by any pro GM.

 

[The Beyonder]

I liked the 2016-17 team because of the potential and they actually achieved something (making the playoffs with rookies at the helm). But since then they are on the same ground, so IMO there's less to like. Accomplish something and people will love you for it. Do people remember or love Gilmour for how points he got in the regular seasons? No. They love the clutch moments he and his team had. Same with the Sundin/Roberts/Cujo years. This team needs to earn the admiration like those players/teams earned. Even if they didn't the cup, they at least were a few wins from a cup on multiple occasions.

 

[notDatsyuk]

It took a 1st round pick to get rid of Marleaus contract. Pretty much viewed universally viewed as toxic by any pro GM.

That was to get rid of the last year, which, as I said, was a maybe a year too long. Also, it wasn't Lou who got rid of it, so we don't know if he would have had to add a pick.

And Marleau's was only one of several in the discussion.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Yeah I mean, I'm not even an anti-Lou guy, I think he played a big part in getting the Leafs back to respectibility but he hasn't handled contracts well for a long time. The Dubas detractors ***** and moan about Nylander and Matthews' contracts meanwhile we just had to give away a first to ditch a guy who we paid 6.25 last year for slightly above replacement level play. Martin was a healthy scratch with multiple years left on his deal, Zaistev got 7 years off a very small sample size of average play. Were these deals gambles worth making? Maybe, but he lost constantly.

Lee's contract will be bad, Komarov signed an albatross, Varlamov could be good but he drove away a guy who was a Vezina finalist in their system already to pay him the same amount on longer term. There's very little to like about Lou's contracts.

Martin is a great example of likely misusing a player. Sure, he was a healthy scratch here, but Lou traded for him to go to the island, and he played every game (except when hurt), and was a large contributor to their success.

Komarov is the same, and Zaitsev may well be. I'm not sure what you don't like about Lee.

Do you have any evidence that he 'drove away' Lehner?

 

[SniperOnTheWing]

I love this team and the high end talent we have. It's exciting to watch and makes me want to tune in to games again after years and years of a trash product.

I just hate the bloodthirsty media, a large portion of the online fanbase (especially the doom and gloomers around here), and the divisional playoff format. Only one of those things has any hope of changing in the near future sadly.

 

[nsleaf]

We have not won anything. Not the Cup, not the Presidents Trophy, not the conference, not the division.......not even a playoff round. Coming second or third is not winning!!!

OFFS, they win now more than they have in recent years.
You and tubbers need to get a grip.

 

[sittler rules!!!]

OFFS, they win now more than they have in recent years.
You and tubbers need to get a grip.

Win what??? Games??? Everyone wins games!!!

 

[HolyCrap]

Shannahan decided to let 3 of the more important contracts this franchise has seen in over a decade, be handled by the greenest GM ever. Why they didn't keep Lou around to handle Willy and AM is beyond me.

And it's gone about as bad as it could possibly go. Hiring Dubas always has been and will be looked at in the future as a mistake IMHO.

Lol. Wow.

 

[Nylander88]

So Lou holds the record for having a player hold out on him in the cap era? Or is that Dubas?

Remind me what team went further last year again?

In fairness....we won the same amount of games in round 2 as the Islanders did

 

[yubbers]

Lol. Wow.

I'm also impressed with it. Thank you.

 

[nsleaf]

Win what??? Games??? Everyone wins games!!!

They do, some more than others!