Do You Guys Expect More From Lou?

[doublechili]

Hunter is a world-class talent evaluator, no question.

The issue any team wanting to hire him is this: he wants to be a General Manager in the NHL and has probably legitimately earned the opportunity.

If he agrees to join the Islanders, my guess is that there will need to be a clear path to the Big Chair. Mark Hunter doesn’t need a job and I doubt he’d leave the London Knights, the extremely successful and profitable junior team he co-owns and operates with his brother, Dale, just to be an assistant GM or a player personnel guy.

To me, he’s earned the shot and deserves a GM job. He’s that good. But the Islsnders might not be the best fit, given the “assistants in waiting” already on staff.

Hunter doesn't really do anything with London other than co-own and operate, but he continued doing that while he worked for TOR. So he could keep all of that if he took a job elsewhere.

He's not allowed to take a new job until after the draft and UFA signing period (not sure exactly how the latter is defined - until the end of July maybe?).

Lou is 76, so if he doesn't step aside immediately for Hunter to be GM, the wait certainly shouldn't be long. And if knows his son is not the right fit, he won't put him in a bad situation. I'm hoping Hunter joins the Isles soon.

 

[doublechili]

BTW, don't forget that Lou was hired as President of Hockey Operations. He just took over as GM when Snow was "reassigned". So I would not be surprised if Lou's tenure as GM ends in a few weeks and Hunter comes aboard as GM.

If he wants to show TOR and Dubas up, what better place to do it?

 

[IODCPiper]

I don't think people realize how undesirable we really are. We:

-Have no #1 goaltender
-Have no long-term arena
-Have a terrible defense
-Have bad top 6 forwards
-Are splitting our home games between two arenas
-Had our franchise player of the past decade walk
-Have been the laughing stock of the league for two decades
-Have missed the playoffs for two years in a row
-Gave up the most amount of goals last year than any other team has for a decade

People are actually blaming Lou who has been here what a month? The guy's good but he's not a magician.

Bad top 6? No long term arena? ARE YOU AN ISLES FAN OR JUST ONE OF THOSE?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Hunter doesn't really do anything with London other than co-own and operate, but he continued doing that while he worked for TOR. So he could keep all of that if he took a job elsewhere.

He's not allowed to take a new job until after the draft and UFA signing period (not sure exactly how the latter is defined - until the end of July maybe?).

Lou is 76, so if he doesn't step aside immediately for Hunter to be GM, the wait certainly shouldn't be long. And if knows his son is not the right fit, he won't put him in a bad situation. I'm hoping Hunter joins the Isles soon.

I thought I'd read Hunter had to sell his shares of the Knights when he took the Leafs job.

 

[ScaredStreit]

Bad top 6? No long term arena? ARE YOU AN ISLES FAN OR JUST ONE OF THOSE?

Been posting here as an Islanders fan 10 years before you. Not many have a longer tenure than I do. I've been mocked plenty of times-usually because I don't hold back pointing out the bad as well as the good. Most recently because I said unless we were a contender Tavares was leaving and that all he said to the media was PR 101-I said this for a good 1 1/2 years before he left. I'd bet roughly 90% of posters here trashed me for it. Unfortunately I was right. I can also point out that before everybody jumped on the "Snow Must Go" bandwagon I was told by the overwhelming majority of posters here to stop because I was being too negative and harsh on him...how did that turn out again? Does this mean I'm smarter and/or better than them? No, so I hope I'm not coming across as arrogant or a know-it-all. It just means that just because you're in the minority of a view doesn't mean you're wrong.

Sometimes I'm wrong, most times I'm right, but I always call it as I see it without sugar coating it and by expressing the flaws of the team it triggers people since it's not nice to think about. If you think you can name 10 teams with a better top six (mind you the Islanders's top six no longer have Tavares to help out...looking at you Lee) lets hear it. Let's check back at the end of the year and see who's correct. If I'm wrong I'll eat crow...will you?

 

[ScaredStreit]

Were you being sarcastic?
Lee 40 goals last season
Brazil 85points and Calder
Bailey 71 points last season
Eberle 25 goals over 20 for last 5 years
Beauvillier 21 goals in second season.
Nelson 4 years of 20 goals

We need a second line center but that is not a bad top 6. We need help on defense and we have little to no scoring out of the bottom 6, but our top 6 is our strength.

Whose numbers are going to stay the same, let alone get better? First of all they're going to be playing more defensively with Trotz (which they should).

Lee has made a career of scoring from down low after other players created some space and generated chances (nobody was better than Tavares at doing this).

Barzal (not Brazil) is going to be playing against the top pairing much more than last season. There's a big difference between an opponent's top pair and middle pair on defense. It's going to naturally be much more difficult for him to score.

Bailey had a career year playing with Tavares (who doesn't?), prior to last year he broke 50 points once in his career and had a career high of 15 goals.

Eberle's production I expect to more or less stay the same.

Beauvillier had 36 points and will be 21 years old in the season. He might improve but the #1 flaw of our fanbase-and really all fanbases-is overrating potential. I've said it for years here and I'll say it again: some young promising players get better, some remain the same, some regress. We don't know which way Beauvillier is going to go and regardless of scoring 21 goals or not 36 points isn't ideal for a top six forward.

Nelson is straight trash and the streakiest player I've seen in a long time. For example he scored ONE point last year in the month of November. That's not an exaggeration. Last year he scored 19 goals and 35 points. Again 35 points isn't ideal for a top six forward.

Ladd sucks. Period.

I don't see any of those players other than Eberle, Barzal (hopefully), Beauvillier (hopefully) keeping up their production.

edit: Now let's look at our division:

Devils: better than us
Flyers: better than us
Rangers: not better
Hurricanes: not better
Penguins: better than us
Caps: better than us
Blue Jackets: close but I give the slight edge to them

 

[BelovedIsles]

I give him a pass until further notice.

I love LLs resume, love his pedigree, how he operates.

So far with NYI, just like Trotz addition.

He has not addressed the significant deficiencies in the lineup, as of yet.

 

[xIsle]

Whose numbers are going to stay the same, let alone get better? First of all they're going to be playing more defensively with Trotz (which they should).

Lee has made a career of scoring from down low after other players created some space and generated chances (nobody was better than Tavares at doing this).

Barzal (not Brazil) is going to be playing against the top pairing much more than last season. There's a big difference between an opponent's top pair and middle pair on defense. It's going to naturally be much more difficult for him to score.

Bailey had a career year playing with Tavares (who doesn't?), prior to last year he broke 50 points once in his career and had a career high of 15 goals.

Eberle's production I expect to more or less stay the same.

Beauvillier had 36 points and will be 21 years old in the season. He might improve but the #1 flaw of our fanbase-and really all fanbases-is overrating potential. I've said it for years here and I'll say it again: some young promising players get better, some remain the same, some regress. We don't know which way Beauvillier is going to go and regardless of scoring 21 goals or not 36 points isn't ideal for a top six forward.

Nelson is straight trash and the streakiest player I've seen in a long time. For example he scored ONE point last year in the month of November. That's not an exaggeration. Last year he scored 19 goals and 35 points. Again 35 points isn't ideal for a top six forward.

Ladd sucks. Period.

I don't see any of those players other than Eberle, Barzal (hopefully), Beauvillier (hopefully) keeping up their production.

edit: Now let's look at our division:

Devils: better than us
Flyers: better than us
Rangers: not better
Hurricanes: not better
Penguins: better than us
Caps: better than us
Blue Jackets: close but I give the slight edge to them

FYI, Beauvillier had 29 points in the 2nd half of last season (41 games) when he played in the top six. That's 58 points for the whole season (82 games) and this is as a 20 years old. Not bad at all. Eberle, for exemple, finished with 59 points.

 

[ScaredStreit]

FYI, Beauvillier had 29 points in the 2nd half of last season (41 games) when he played in the top six. That's 58 points for the whole season (82 games) and this is as a 20 years old. Not bad at all. Eberle, for exemple, finished with 59 points.

29 in his last 41 isn't bad at all I agree. However his games 1-41 count just as much as games 42-82.

edit: I actually like Beauvillier quite a bit, but I'm not sure I'd pencil him in as a 55-60 point player just yet.

 

[sabremike]

The idea that Barzal didn't face top pairing guys last season is largely a myth. Someone online did a great piece showing that when you broke things down he faced other team's top guys as much as anyone on the team.

 

[PWJunior]

The idea that Barzal didn't face top pairing guys last season is largely a myth. Someone online did a great piece showing that when you broke things down he faced other team's top guys as much as anyone on the team.

www.lighthousehockey.com/platform/amp/2018/6/20/17475430/mathew-barzal-john-tavares-defense-pairs-stats

 

[Top Corner]

I dont think Lou is the Gm we need - Hockey opps is fine. Bring in Hunter

I , like ScaredStreit , have probably been on
The wrong side of most of the glass half full crowd here but I’m not sure anything I’ve said has been wrong.

We all knew Garth has put this franchise in another rebuild situation but My hockey contact had mentioned when he was in LA before trade deadline speaking to Brisson he made it sound like the owners were not going to move Tavares even though it sounded like they wanted them to. They kept using the 8 years as leverage so in fact
They might have salvaged something had they just bit the bullet and acquired the assets . So the owners at that time had
Removed Garth and should bore some of the blame. But Garth through the years has out smarted himself and lost assets for nothing.
You would think we were a perineal playoff team.

 

[doublechili]

I thought I'd read Hunter had to sell his shares of the Knights when he took the Leafs job.

Not sure - I saw something that seemed to say he was still involved in ownership but don't know the details - maybe he owns through a corporation or something? Anyway, it doesn't sound like London is any obstacle to him taking a job with the Isles or anyone else.

 

[72hockey guy]

I get the thought process, but I would keep Bailey and see what he has still. Lee's production at the start of the season will tell us a lot about whether or not he is a true 40 goal scorer or a product of Tavares. You cannot trade everyone away though. They need to be getting a top prospect for Lee or else it really is not worth it to just trade everyone.

YL , im not saying trade everyone, but I am saying to maximize the returns for those players we can realistically get a return for before they lose that value it does us no good getting 90 points every year only to get a later pick 13-15 when we know that eve if we somehow surprise and make the playoffs we cant even win a round, thats the equivalent of self flagelation. the moves weve already made (lehner hickey Komorov fillipula etc) arent the moves of a team, that expects to win anything you know it and i know it. unlike these clowns you see reality

so that being the case Why pretend? protect Barzl yes, but dont hold on to assets that will lose most of their value before we are ready to contend. thats just wasteful and not being prudent. I want to win. but you dont do that by foolishly ignoring the fact of your relative position; we didnt make the playoffs last year and we are 30 percent worse now. thats just reality

 

[YearlyLottery]

YL , im not saying trade everyone, but I am saying to maximize the returns for those players we can realistically get a return for before they lose that value it does us no good getting 90 points every year only to get a later pick 13-15 when we know that eve if we somehow surprise and make the playoffs we cant even win a round, thats the equivalent of self flagelation. the moves weve already made (lehner hickey Komorov fillipula etc) arent the moves of a team, that expects to win anything you know it and i know it. unlike these clowns you see reality

so that being the case Why pretend? protect Barzl yes, but dont hold on to assets that will lose most of their value before we are ready to contend. thats just wasteful and not being prudent. I want to win. but you dont do that by foolishly ignoring the fact of your relative position; we didnt make the playoffs last year and we are 30 percent worse now. thats just reality

I understand this post, and I do think Trotz has a lot to do with the moves for strengthening the bottom six. The team is worse now, no doubt. Part of the problem during the Tavares era was he didn't have a Lee, he didn't have a Bailey, he didn't have a Leddy. Let's be honest, he didn't have a Barzal until last year.

But what's the best way of getting the number two guy for Barzal? Well, trading everyone and going through a rebuild is a thought. I just do not think you need to trade away Bailey AND Lee in order for that to happen. Read my posts on here though about Lee, I am totally fine with trading him.

I suppose if the effort is to tank for Hughes/Newhook/Kakko, then you are looking at this team as more than just a year away from making playoffs. Tavares left because we didn't surround him quickly enough with talent. Listen if you tell me that tanking this year gets us Jack Hughes, then let's tank. But the worst team in the league only gets an 18% chance at first pick.

Isles got lucky with the recent draft picks, and I still think IF you trade Lee it needs to be for a high level prospect almost here, not picks who are 3-4 years away. If Bailey successfully puts up 50+ points without Tavares I would keep him. I do not think the team is three years away from making the playoffs.

It's going to be an interesting season, because while my mind tells me bottom five team all these guys they have compete and they have a top coach in the league.

 

[YearlyLottery]

29 in his last 41 isn't bad at all I agree. However his games 1-41 count just as much as games 42-82.

edit: I actually like Beauvillier quite a bit, but I'm not sure I'd pencil him in as a 55-60 point player just yet.

He needs to get much stronger on the puck to score 55-60 points in my opinion.

 

[NittanyIsle]

Link to Lou's interview today on SXM NHL Network. Must listen.

 

[Newsworthy]

Our scoring was insane last year and while we lost the second biggest point getter now it all falls apart.

Our 1-14 is better this year than last year, change my mind.

Weight system is gone.

 

[JKP]

We aren’t tanking. Give Lou some time to put a team together. Still early and he’s still evaluating.

 

[PROMputt]

29 in his last 41 isn't bad at all I agree. However his games 1-41 count just as much as games 42-82.

edit: I actually like Beauvillier quite a bit, but I'm not sure I'd pencil him in as a 55-60 point player just yet.

but you are actually contradicting yourself. In a earlier post you said:
"Beauvillier had 36 points and will be 21 years old in the season. He might improve but the #1 flaw of our fanbase-and really all fanbases-is overrating potential. I've said it for years here and I'll say it again: some young promising players get better, some remain the same, some regress. We don't know which way Beauvillier is going to go and regardless of scoring 21 goals or not 36 points isn't ideal for a top six forward."

Isn't the fact that he has been getting better since game one of rookie season(and taking major steps 2nd half last season) showing that he is getting better and such we should expect him to get even better?

 

[PK Cronin]

The idea that Barzal didn't face top pairing guys last season is largely a myth. Someone online did a great piece showing that when you broke things down he faced other team's top guys as much as anyone on the team.

The impact of playing with another star has can't be quantified the way they are attempting to. It doesn't take into account fatigue or overall strategy.

 

[ScaredStreit]

but you are actually contradicting yourself. In a earlier post you said:
"Beauvillier had 36 points and will be 21 years old in the season. He might improve but the #1 flaw of our fanbase-and really all fanbases-is overrating potential. I've said it for years here and I'll say it again: some young promising players get better, some remain the same, some regress. We don't know which way Beauvillier is going to go and regardless of scoring 21 goals or not 36 points isn't ideal for a top six forward."

Isn't the fact that he has been getting better since game one of rookie season(and taking major steps 2nd half last season) showing that he is getting better and such we should expect him to get even better?

Not every prospect improves every single year, if that were the case we'd be cup contenders. Just because Beauvillier improved in the second half last year doesn't mean he'll keep it up.

Let's go back five years ago (2013) at how we (Islanders HFboards) ranked our prospects:

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/2013-islanders-prospect-poll-14.1481667/

1. Strome
2. Nelson
3. Reinhart
4. Pulock
5. Donovan
6. De Haan
7. Mayfield
8. Lee
9. Nilsson
10. Pokka

Now all of those players have improved at some point in their development (or they wouldn't be ranked so highly). As I said some of our prospects will improve (Pulock, De Haan, Lee), some will stay the same, some will regress.

Speaking of Strome in 2015 he took a huge step forward (50 points) and many were penciling him in to do even better....but unfortunately that never happened and years and another NHL club later, that still hasn't happened. Beauvillier might got the same way as Strome, he might not. When players are this young it's really hard to tell-which is why the draft itself is a crap shoot after the first few "obvious" picks-and even then there's tons of busts.

 

[wingnutks]

Lou said numerous times we are going to play a fast tempo game because that is the way you win now in the NHL. We just signed ANOTHER slow player.

 

[Costigan77]

Lou said numerous times we are going to play a fast tempo game because that is the way you win now in the NHL. We just signed ANOTHER slow player.

Jury may be out on that. Guy centered Semin prior to last season

 

[93LEAFS]

I assume my presence here isn't too welcome, but I thought I'd quickly clear up some questions. Directly related to Hunter.

Hunter doesn't really do anything with London other than co-own and operate, but he continued doing that while he worked for TOR. So he could keep all of that if he took a job elsewhere.

He's not allowed to take a new job until after the draft and UFA signing period (not sure exactly how the latter is defined - until the end of July maybe?).

Lou is 76, so if he doesn't step aside immediately for Hunter to be GM, the wait certainly shouldn't be long. And if knows his son is not the right fit, he won't put him in a bad situation. I'm hoping Hunter joins the Isles soon.

He agreed not to accept a job until July 15th. So, if you are going to hire him, expect an announcement around then, or shortly after.

Not sure - I saw something that seemed to say he was still involved in ownership but don't know the details - maybe he owns through a corporation or something? Anyway, it doesn't sound like London is any obstacle to him taking a job with the Isles or anyone else.

He still fully owns the Knights with his brother Dale. He was not forced to sell anything when joining the Leafs staff. Other people in the NHL have ownership connections to CHL teams. For example, Kelly McCrimmon, the AGM for the Golden Knights owns the Brandon Wheat Kings.