Do We Overreact to The Maple Leafs' Struggles at Times?

[57 Years No Cup]

I see three maybe four groups of people.

1. Vancouver Fans who envy everything we are as a city and as a hockey organization.

2. Fans who love everything leafs: current GM, Players, Equipment Managers, etc. They defend everyone to no end, and all criticism is considered "bashing". They also seem to comment on the refereeing most nights.

3. People who want to own ("pwn") the internet, win every debate, put people down, use expressions like "lmao"/"lol"/"flawed", find an underlying stat or narrative to hang their hats on. These people don't seem to respect varied opinions at all.

4. Those that give or are good at constructive criticism. Perhaps they are perceived as bashing or fans of other teams because they are quick to criticize. In a way they probably care for TOR more than the cheerleader fans.

IMHO

Best post you ever made. Sums it up perfectly.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Of course not. The toronto fans are the most rational fan base in sports.

For the majority yeah they are. We all get our nose out of joint occasionally in posts that are angry and half thought out, yours truly included . Pretty smart hockey fan base in general. The only problem is i find, the fans at games should relentlessly boo the referees right off the ice at home. Just a little boo on terrible, bias calls and its over. Maple leaf Gardens was in a league of its own for watching a game with a wild crowd. That was a ornery barn lol. I used to stuff napkins up my nose before walking in to the washroom ha. Stinkiest place i ever was. Yeah not the greatest fans at the new barn. Other than that, best fans in sport for loyalty bar none

 

[eramosat]

A lot of this fanbase overreacts like crazy and is never happy unless everything is perfect and the team plays all-out every game, which is not a reality in the NHL. We massively over-analyze ourselves while under-analyzing our opponents. Every fan and every team does it, but Leaf fans seem to have some extra scars from the past, so everything is blown up and exaggerated.

I agree that the critical mass of fans who overreact like crazy can be reached much more quickly with Leaf fans than any other NHL fanbase I'm aware of. The margin for error is quite simply non-existent, because there is always a significant vocal group, online or in person, who find fault with just about anything that's quite normal over the course of an 82 game professional hockey season.

And it will never ever change. Who knows what the actual affect is, on fans or players?

 

[DavePoulin4PM]

Every player that leaves Toronto finds success. Kessel 2 cups. Dion ECF appearance. Bozak cup. Polak playing for a better team. Kadri playing for a better team. JVR playing with a better team. Marleau playing with a better team. Mcbackup playing with a better team. What does that tell you about this organization?

 

[kb]

Every player that leaves Toronto finds success. Kessel 2 cups. Dion ECF appearance. Bozak cup. Polak playing for a better team. Kadri playing for a better team. JVR playing with a better team. Marleau playing with a better team. Mcbackup playing with a better team. What does that tell you about this organization?

It tells me that the Dave Poulin era set this team back years.

 

[ANDI P IS CUTE]

.500 team 14 months, no series win for over around 15 years, up against the cap, no cup since 67. wtf are you talking about OP?

 

[34]

No, no overreaction. This Toronto Maple Leaf team is about to miss the playoffs.

What do you want to do? Pretend that Andersen is a great goalie and that the team is about to win the Cup?

 

[96]

Idk guys. I havent been posting here lately because I cant handle it anymore; the Leafs I mean.

I thought they had drove me completely mad in December of 2014, but this is the most I've ever HATED a Leafs team. I watched Marner since he had literal girls hair and pimples on his face in the OHL, desperately wanted him on this team and now I cannot stand him or his style of play. No one on this team gives a f***, except Muzz, Freddy, maybe a few more.

f*** that bitch Kyle Dubas. Everyone knew overpaying Marner would be a big mistake, FFs, Kyle lets the players destroy his rectum whenever they please. And it seems like he enjoys letting them do so.

 

[Pyrophorus]

Yes. The team however; has some work to do. Dubas has a complicated summer coming up.

 

[firstemperor]

Idk guys. I havent been posting here lately because I cant handle it anymore; the Leafs I mean.

I thought they had drove me completely mad in December of 2014, but this is the most I've ever HATED a Leafs team. I watched Marner since he had literal girls hair and pimples on his face in the OHL, desperately wanted him on this team and now I cannot stand him or his style of play. No one on this team gives a f***, except Muzz, Freddy, maybe a few more.

f*** that bitch Kyle Dubas. Everyone knew overpaying Marner would be a big mistake, FFs, Kyle lets the players destroy his rectum whenever they please. And it seems like he enjoys letting them do so.

I agree that Dubas got bent over on contract negotiations, and really needed to double down and be willing to shake the core for the longevity of this team- even if it meant a contract hold out or trading a core player. That's what strong-willed and winning franchises like the Bruins have done in the past with their young guys.

Though this group is generally unlikeable, but still can be redeemable- it starts from the top. The type of culture that Dubas instilled since he took over is detrimental to success and it has shown in the poor quality, on-ice product this season.

 

[ITM]

Every player that leaves Toronto finds success. Kessel 2 cups. Dion ECF appearance. Bozak cup. Polak playing for a better team. Kadri playing for a better team. JVR playing with a better team. Marleau playing with a better team. Mcbackup playing with a better team. What does that tell you about this organization?

A few things. But it also informs that our market bears partial weight for making this place a seemingly impossible place to succeed in as a Toronto Maple Leaf. Top level coaching, championship GMs, elite executive staff, resources to rival any organization...And yet, our media and fans that (allegedly) make this a great place to play, also make it unbearable. And it most of it boils down to a hyper vigilance found in groups whose agenda it is to insure that target groups are perpetually kept caricatured as deficient. Excluding of course the exception of professional sports' entailment of competition. But that doesn't matter, right? It's the Leafs. The Laffs. The narrative that must not be allowed to die.

And now with this illusory news cycle and the sense of constantly compressing time and attention spans, what was once an obsessed hockey market has and will continue to become an obsessed hockey market defined and concerned only with justifying it's insatiable want to be right about the Leafs always being wrong.

I'm generally a half glass full fan, but the schizophrenic nature of our fan base and the tension imposed on our young core that's exacerbated by media, professional and amateur alike has me concerned that if this group is run out of town, we are never going to get another chance at contention building like the one we have now.

This group is about winning the Cup in it's due time. Absolutely. It's also about building a culture. To think that we can continually shuffle and improve is akin to believing you can put down roots by constantly moving. And that's what Shanahan and Dubas hinted at in their post-trade deadline interviews. At some point, the answer has to come from within even when everything without claims to know the solution to the problem as located outside of the resolve of the players already in blue and white.

You know, every example you cite to mar Dubas' short tenure wasn't a Dubas acquisition. And every remedy to every Lamoriello solution yielded younger assets or the means and space to acquire/target younger assets. That's a common denominator if your intent is the long game. In some instances painful, perhaps over-exuberant (i.e. McElhinney) even if reasonable. Contrast that with Lamoriello and what you have is the dull work of a GM trying to actually build long term success. That's obvious if you pause for a moment and examine the information.

Perhaps the better question is, what do those other organizations do differently so that by the time they attract key pieces, they are ready for a Cup run? Unfashionable, long term moves that forecast a longer timeline than most desire. Because the line to the Cup isn't going to be constantly ascending. I'm on record here repeatedly pointing out the NEED in learning to win through defeat. Which means, a first round exit one year, a second the year after and maybe a first round exit the following. That type of frustrating development. But it has PRECEDENT. And our management group understands, what other successful groups do, that in order to have a culture of contention, you have to be able to do so year after year.

So one thing that I glean by the examples listed, is that our present management has enough sense to determine it's core assets according to a longer game than previous administrations. And that eventually, a Kessel, Marleau, Kadri, McBackup, will eventually join our developed, grizzled core to compliment it appropriately, rather than preemptively define it in the fashion other Leafs management groups have.

I'd like to think by the end of it all, the thankless work Dubas is doing will be seen as clearly as Nylander's production hiccup. In context with easily verifiable facts accessible to anyone that's remotely concerned with reasonable scenarios.

But when Roman Polak is used as a dagger...Well, reason's of no concern I suppose.

 

[sxvnert]

Not even close. This team has it too easy.

 

[baton elevated]

Out "You make my dreams come true" in "Hells Bells"
Tells you everything you need to know about the state of this organization. Corporate crap out Hockey with balls in!

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

Because this group has been together 16 years and they keep failing? That's either overreacting or just pure nonsense.

I rarely ever agree with what the poster you quoted says but in this case it's completely fair. This team has been a disappointing mess for the better part of two decades and they have not earned the benefit of the doubt. It's absolutely not overreacting to be disappointed that they're struggling to stay in a playoff spot with so many talented players in their primes.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

I mean, sure, this team can look soft and disinterested at times, but if you read the Panthers' board right now, their fans are basically saying the same things Leafs' fans say about their team, except in their case the team fails to make the playoffs every year.

All that tells me is that both teams are mediocre with similar issues. Our only saving grace is that our goaltending has been slightly better than theirs this season.

The Sabres have been rebuilding for years and still can't come all that close to making the playoffs. The Habs have basically had more than 25 years of mediocrity and it looks like nothing is changing. The Wings are in for hell over the coming seasons. The Senators won't be good again for ages unless they get lucky.

Comparing us to the Sabres and Habs, two teams mired in mediocrity is a low bar. The Sens and Wings are both rebuilding and I wouldn’t be so quick to just write them off. We went from bottom feeders to the playoffs in just one season.

Back in 2016, when TOR drafted Matthews, I'm sure there were fans who figured the team would just now be becoming competitive. Instead, the Leafs have been making the playoffs regularly and gaining experience. Is the situation really that bad? If they keep losing in the first round, you can argue the team isn't good enough to win anything, but if they break through and win a round or two this year, things may suddenly look pretty good in comparisons to the situations of a lot of other Atlantic division teams.

Them even making the playoffs at this point is a pretty big if, let a lone winning a round or two. I’d love to be proven wrong with this team but at this point we’ve got a large enough sample size to say what they are, mediocre. If we didn’t play in such a crap division we’d be out of the playoffs. The Atlantic right now is like the Norris in the 80s.

The situation isn’t dire but it’s certainly not great. We’ve invested a lot into a core group of players that can’t play with any consistency or drive, and that investment up front has left us with few resources to address our weaknesses. Even when our top forwards play as they should, the rest of the roster is still too barren to survive injuries or step up when our top guys have off nights.

No, I don’t think we’re too hard on this team or overreact. Honestly this team and fan base mirror each other quite perfectly with our collective bipolar-ness.

 

[Optimist]

No we don't.

 

[Leafsfan74]

A few things. But it also informs that our market bears partial weight for making this place a seemingly impossible place to succeed in as a Toronto Maple Leaf. Top level coaching, championship GMs, elite executive staff, resources to rival any organization...And yet, our media and fans that (allegedly) make this a great place to play, also make it unbearable. And it most of it boils down to a hyper vigilance found in groups whose agenda it is to insure that target groups are perpetually kept caricatured as deficient. Excluding of course the exception of professional sports' entailment of competition. But that doesn't matter, right? It's the Leafs. The Laffs. The narrative that must not be allowed to die.

And now with this illusory news cycle and the sense of constantly compressing time and attention spans, what was once an obsessed hockey market has and will continue to become an obsessed hockey market defined and concerned only with justifying it's insatiable want to be right about the Leafs always being wrong.

I'm generally a half glass full fan, but the schizophrenic nature of our fan base and the tension imposed on our young core that's exacerbated by media, professional and amateur alike has me concerned that if this group is run out of town, we are never going to get another chance at contention building like the one we have now.

This group is about winning the Cup in it's due time. Absolutely. It's also about building a culture. To think that we can continually shuffle and improve is akin to believing you can put down roots by constantly moving. And that's what Shanahan and Dubas hinted at in their post-trade deadline interviews. At some point, the answer has to come from within even when everything without claims to know the solution to the problem as located outside of the resolve of the players already in blue and white.

You know, every example you cite to mar Dubas' short tenure wasn't a Dubas acquisition. And every remedy to every Lamoriello solution yielded younger assets or the means and space to acquire/target younger assets. That's a common denominator if your intent is the long game. In some instances painful, perhaps over-exuberant (i.e. McElhinney) even if reasonable. Contrast that with Lamoriello and what you have is the dull work of a GM trying to actually build long term success. That's obvious if you pause for a moment and examine the information.

Perhaps the better question is, what do those other organizations do differently so that by the time they attract key pieces, they are ready for a Cup run? Unfashionable, long term moves that forecast a longer timeline than most desire. Because the line to the Cup isn't going to be constantly ascending. I'm on record here repeatedly pointing out the NEED in learning to win through defeat. Which means, a first round exit one year, a second the year after and maybe a first round exit the following. That type of frustrating development. But it has PRECEDENT. And our management group understands, what other successful groups do, that in order to have a culture of contention, you have to be able to do so year after year.

So one thing that I glean by the examples listed, is that our present management has enough sense to determine it's core assets according to a longer game than previous administrations. And that eventually, a Kessel, Marleau, Kadri, McBackup, will eventually join our developed, grizzled core to compliment it appropriately, rather than preemptively define it in the fashion other Leafs management groups have.

I'd like to think by the end of it all, the thankless work Dubas is doing will be seen as clearly as Nylander's production hiccup. In context with easily verifiable facts accessible to anyone that's remotely concerned with reasonable scenarios.

But when Roman Polak is used as a dagger...Well, reason's of no concern I suppose.

Sure there is pressure. Do you think the Yankee players have it any easier, or Red Sox? Players still flock to these teams because they want the action and the attention.

How about Dallas Cowboy or Green Bay players? Look at how Andrew Luck was treated for retiring.

Leaf players have it easy. Getting paid in U.S dollars, the fans love the team and care. It's better than being unnoticed as they might be in some markets. Yeah, sure there are personal moments we don't see where they might feel slighted. This is what you signed up for. It's part of being in the action.

In the end, yes, there is pressure. It's give and take. It's a great place to win and a bad place to lose, because fans have experienced it for so long.

In the end, if you don't have it in you to deal with it, demand a trade. I mean that with all seriousness. the fishbowl isn't for everyone and the Leafs should not be interested in players with weak constitutions.

I just know, if anyone has any self respect, they play to win. They work hard to win because they know if they don't, they will lose. Easy math.

Who likes losing a sports? Your salary means nothing at that point. It should be personal for players. For some, I don't think it's personal enough, the pride is lacking. Fans will gladly take a team with slightly less talent but more pride and commitment. Why waste talent with lacklustre effort?

 

[ANDI P IS CUTE]

no series win since 2004 lol, no cup 67 lol.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I rarely ever agree with what the poster you quoted says but in this case it's completely fair. This team has been a disappointing mess for the better part of two decades and they have not earned the benefit of the doubt. It's absolutely not overreacting to be disappointed that they're struggling to stay in a playoff spot with so many talented players in their primes.

It's human nature to be disappointed, nothing wrong with that, I'm disappointed also. I'm just saying it's a different group of players now so hanging the last 2 decades (or last 5+ decades) makes no sense. Up three goals against Boston in the third period of game 7, that was less than 10 years ago and those guys are all gone now.

 

[robertmac43]

It's not even over reacting for some people here, they are just pessimistic and will always find the faults in the team... It's unfortunate really.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

I agree that Dubas got bent over on contract negotiations, and really needed to double down and be willing to shake the core for the longevity of this team- even if it meant a contract hold out or trading a core player. That's what strong-willed and winning franchises like the Bruins have done in the past with their young guys.

Though this group is generally unlikeable, but still can be redeemable- it starts from the top. The type of culture that Dubas instilled since he took over is detrimental to success and it has shown in the poor quality, on-ice product this season.

This. If he had made Nylander an example when negotiating the Leafs would be in a far better position today.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Sure there is pressure. Do you think the Yankee players have it any easier, or Red Sox? Players still flock to these teams because they want the action and the attention.

How about Dallas Cowboy or Green Bay players? Look at how Andrew Luck was treated for retiring.

Leaf players have it easy. Getting paid in U.S dollars, the fans love the team and care. It's better than being unnoticed as they might be in some markets. Yeah, sure there are personal moments we don't see where they might feel slighted. This is what you signed up for. It's part of being in the action.

In the end, yes, there is pressure. It's give and take. It's a great place to win and a bad place to lose, because fans have experienced it for so long.

In the end, if you don't have it in you to deal with it, demand a trade. I mean that with all seriousness. the fishbowl isn't for everyone and the Leafs should not be interested in players with weak constitutions.

I just know, if anyone has any self respect, they play to win. They work hard to win because they know if they don't, they will lose. Easy math.

Who likes losing a sports? Your salary means nothing at that point. It should be personal for players. For some, I don't think it's personal enough, the pride is lacking. Fans will gladly take a team with slightly less talent but more pride and commitment. Why waste talent with lacklustre effort?

Great post.

 

[hullsy47]

.500 team 14 months, no series win for over around 15 years, up against the cap, no cup since 67. wtf are you talking about OP?

Oh I guarantee the board knows
I fully expect a full page apology if the leafs miss the playoffs
Losses to Anaheim and LA just shouldn't happen
Other than nylander the others beibered out on this trip

 

[Sniper99]

Oh Jesus yes this place sure as hell does overreact and its from the same people that I like to call the Usual Suspects. I cant point out names cause that would be "Flaming" but its the same old <insert name> is trash" "Marner needs to be traded"(Yeah good luck with that) "Andersieve" (Jesus where do some people get these pathetic insults?) We've got guys in here that constantly yap about contracts all the damn time. They're signed F***** deal with it. Yes we have next to nothing for cap space but nothing we can do about it. Some people in here I question if they really are fans. The ones that usually overreact during a GDT if the Leafs win they shut right up and dont say anything in the PGT but if the Leafs lose its beyond toxic in there.

I remember dumping on Keefe after one bad game and one of the Keefe supporters showed off how good his win/loss record was. Sure it looked good then, Dont see that win-loss record now.

 

[moon111]

The expectation are very high for a bunch of under-developed players. Someone like Zack Hyman has learnt how to play against better players a long time ago. But players like Nylander, Matthews, and Marner? This is getting to be one of their first taste of playing against their equals. It took Steve Yzerman five seasons before he became a 'plus' player. He went on to win the Selke. The kids are getting paid for their elite offensive talent. But it's the rest of their game that needs to round out. I'll catch flak for this one, but think these kids are showing a lot more passion then Mats Sundin who in my mind, just decided to mail-in his 75-85 points a season. The kids are hungry, they're all showing signs of improving. Don't think fans are appreciating the development of the core as much as they should be.