Do We Overreact to The Maple Leafs' Struggles at Times?

[thewave]

Yes

 

[Cobra777]

A lot of this fanbase overreacts like crazy and is never happy unless everything is perfect and the team plays all-out every game, which is not a reality in the NHL. We massively over-analyze ourselves while under-analyzing our opponents. Every fan and every team does it, but Leaf fans seem to have some extra scars from the past, so everything is blown up and exaggerated.

I agree to a point but like last season Feb where the Lazy uninspired play reared its ugly head when home ice addy was paramount for a better chance in the playoffs they looked horrible with no intensity to easy opponents and pissed points away. The way they finished everyone thought Boston was going to sweep us then bam they put a clinic on in Game 1. and played a good series until game 6 and 7.

This season when getting into the playoffs is paramount up until 3 games ago we saw the same stupid uninspired play, not willing to work for wins. All Teams can go through this yes, but the good ones will have these lapses close to middle season or odd games here or there, but when the chips are down they ramp it up.

I don't think most people here would be as vicious with the hot takes on this team if they saw the team effort required at times to make the push to the next level.

Imho I also think people may be upset a little more is because of hold outs and big contracts signed when they have not proved anything substantial as a team(not individual stats) as of yet and for a while this season watching 3, 11 million dollar guys and a 7 mill guy avoiding contact, bailing on taking a hit to be 1st to a loose puck and one handed stick checks drove fans off the deep end with anger.

When this team puts forth effort and plays beastly fans forgive and get back behind the team because they are exciting to watch, hope arises again leaving past failures from decades behind. Like anyone else at their jobs effort is required for remuneration, higher the pay the more is expected.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I agree to a point but like last season Feb where the Lazy uninspired play reared its ugly head when home ice addy was paramount for a better chance in the playoffs they looked horrible with no intensity to easy opponents and pissed points away. The way they finished everyone thought Boston was going to sweep us then bam they put a clinic on in Game 1. and played a good series until game 6 and 7.

This season when getting into the playoffs is paramount up until 3 games ago we saw the same stupid uninspired play, not willing to work for wins.

This uninspired/lazy play narrative has gone way too far. There is nothing all that different about how we play compared to other teams; we just over-analyze our own team. What really happened at the beginning of 2019 is our goaltending started falling off, and the end of last season, our stars were statistically unlucky in shooting. Nothing else really dropped off.

Do we have some sloppy play from time to time? Yes, like all teams, especially young teams, do.
Do we have games where we just don't have it? Yes, like all teams.
Are we affected by goaltending constantly letting in the earliest and most deflating goals possible? Yes, like all teams.

Teams aren't going to play at 100% for all or even most regular season games. Teams aren't all that physical anymore. That's just the reality of the NHL. People expect 1990s playoff intensity for a Monday game in February in 2020.

All Teams can go through this yes, but the good ones will have these lapses close to middle season or odd games here or there, but when the chips are down they ramp it up.

That's not true at all. Tampa, Pittsburgh, Washington, and St Louis, some of the very top teams in the league, recently went through significant losing streaks/bad stretches, where many of their fans felt like they weren't even trying.

Imho I also think people may be upset a little more is because of hold outs and big contracts signed when they have not proved anything substantial as a team(not individual stats) as of yet

Yes, that is part of the problem. A problem because team success has little to nothing to do with contracts, and our players earned those contracts by being amazing players, which they have continued to be.

 

[IPS]

Check out the volume of posts after losses versus after wins.

It's not so much the volume of posts as it is the certain group who shows up after losses or bad stretches.

Wtf is the point of following a team only to bash them?

Not to mention the ones who need to start a blood feud between whose better and whose not being given proper ice time. We have more internal rivalries than external ones most of the time

The amount of ice time Matthews was given under Babcock was nothing short of disgraceful. Everyone should realize that at this point.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Imho I also think people may be upset a little more is because of hold outs and big contracts signed when they have not proved anything substantial as a team(not individual stats) as of yet and for a while this season watching 3, 11 million dollar guys and a 7 mill guy avoiding contact, bailing on taking a hit to be 1st to a loose puck and one handed stick checks drove fans off the deep end with anger.

To this point, people need to bear in mind where we are. They will point to team success of a Kane, Toews etc. but fail to recognize that those guys came along as final pieces with most of the core in place. In our situation, they are the core at the front end with the rest being rounded out. Also, you can call it excuse or you can call it fact but we have drawn #1, #3 and #4 overall as first round matchups and played 20/21 possible games. I didn't check today but as of one or two days ago, our reward for the playoffs this year was again to draw #2 overall.

Most people here are probably too young to remember but the Chicago Bulls had a nemesis known as the Detroit Pistons. When they were young, they stopped them three years in a row in the playoffs. They matured and went on to great things.

Agreed 100% on your comments about effort. For me I want to see effort above all. Lack of effort is almost a lack of respect. Effort beats skill that lacks effort.

 

[Cobra777]

This uninspired/lazy play narrative has gone way too far. There is nothing all that different about how we play compared to other teams; we just over-analyze our own team. What really happened at the beginning of 2019 is our goaltending started falling off, and the end of last season, our stars were statistically unlucky in shooting. Nothing else really dropped off.

Do we have some sloppy play from time to time? Yes, like all teams, especially young teams, do.
Do we have games where we just don't have it? Yes, like all teams.
Are we affected by goaltending constantly letting in the earliest and most deflating goals possible? Yes, like all teams.

Teams aren't going to play at 100% for all or even most regular season games. Teams aren't all that physical anymore. That's just the reality of the NHL. People expect 1990s playoff intensity for a Monday game in February in 2020.

That's not true at all. Tampa, Pittsburgh, Washington, and St Louis, some of the very top teams in the league, recently went through significant losing streaks/bad stretches, where many of their fans felt like they weren't even trying.

Yes, that is part of the problem. A problem because team success has little to nothing to do with contracts, and our players earned those contracts by being amazing players, which they have continued to be.

St. Louis Ramped it up Large in Feb of last year when called out went on a huge streak and won the cup.
The Caps ramped it up as well because they had top good reg seasons and coughed and choked in the play offs with some bad luck, I watched their playoff series a few seasons when the Leafs were not in or after a 1st round exit, they played with effort but lost which is acceptable.
Tampa choked last season their top defense man was hurt and got swept by Columbus but they went into corners for pucks and did not shy away like our team does when they just don't want to play. Tampa lost on the scoreboard because Columbus played heavy on them and overwhelmed them in every facet of the game because they wanted it more.

In 93 when Toronto had that good playoff run and lost to L.A because of a missed call on Gilmour, I don't recall fans ripping on the team for the loss it was the ref.

Am's rookie yr play off against Wash, us fans loved that series the boys gave their all and almost got by them, Nobody ripped on the team because effort all season and play off round was given.

Following season round to Bostons loss in Game #7 some fans got edgy because in their opinion certain players disappeared.

Secondly big contracts yes matter to fans when they see those players not willing to take a check or show up for alot of games and nothing can be added because of the cap hit as well. Just because players score goals or assists but fall far short in every other aspect of the game does not make them worth their contract in alot of fans opinions. They want to see an all rounded hockey player. AM and Willy now but more Am is hard in the corners and putting on a beastly display, they both look engaged along with Hyman's play is what is pushing them to success just recent.

Bottom line is everyone has a right to their opinions even the total neg Nancies its called freedom of speech. As for myself I only get angry when I see blatant uninspired hockey, guys unwilling to go to the grey areas and avoiding a hit like the plague and laziness where it looked like a boys club culture creeping in again earlier on.

Many of the good posters and fans on this site felt the same way where they were upset because guys were getting paid well and held out, not contributing to pushing this team to its next level.

I read the game threads after every loss and win and everyone is guilty of being upset with this team when they lost games with a putrid effort or anything else that may have bothered them.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

It's not so much the volume of posts as it is the certain group who shows up after losses or bad stretches.

Wtf is the point of following a team only to bash them?

Unfortunately we seem to have two groups in that midst. One is essentially full time trolls (or so it would appear). I guess I at least get their thing. The other is folks seeming to wish for negative and complaining about it. That I don't get. It really isn't hard to switch teams or sports. Stockholm syndrome?

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

The amount of ice time Matthews was given under Babcock was nothing short of disgraceful. Everyone should realize that at this point.

Umm not at all what I was talking about? I was referring to people complaining about things Marner had more ice time than Nylander. Stupid feuds like one goalie is amazing and the other is hot garbage. Blood feuds between which player is better and so on.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

The problem is that the Dubas hate can't really be backed up by anything at this moment, in my HONEST opinion.

A couple years down the road? That might be completely different, but as of today I find it very hard to hate on him as a GM.

When he put in HIS coach with the team that HE shaped, it has been a top 5 NHL team, despite having terrible goaltending.

I’m a pretty positive person who usually trusts the team leadership but it thought Dubas screwed up the backup goalie situation trying to make Sparks work. A big part in our struggles since he was GM is he kept trying to make that work.

Sometimes he tries to be too clever instead seeing the writing on the wall.

 

[Cobra777]

To this point, people need to bear in mind where we are. They will point to team success of a Kane, Toews etc. but fail to recognize that those guys came along as final pieces with most of the core in place. In our situation, they are the core at the front end with the rest being rounded out. Also, you can call it excuse or you can call it fact but we have drawn #1, #3 and #4 overall as first round matchups and played 20/21 possible games. I didn't check today but as of one or two days ago, our reward for the playoffs this year was again to draw #2 overall.

Most people here are probably too young to remember but the Chicago Bulls had a nemesis known as the Detroit Pistons. When they were young, they stopped them three years in a row in the playoffs. They matured and went on to great things.

Agreed 100% on your comments about effort. For me I want to see effort above all. Lack of effort is almost a lack of respect. Effort beats skill that lacks effort.

I agree Rants with your reply, only reason I posted the highlighted part was that the 1st and second rookie season with AM our core was the most exciting team in the NHL to watch, they reminded me of the young team North America in that tourney where they were all young, super fast, talented, unbelievable passing plays, they were 1st on pucks because of speed and put on a shooting gallery many games. Me and a buddy had to pinch ourselves at the level of hockey our young core and team displayed and were overjoyed to see a team again that we longed for.

Then AM took that hit from Trouba and just wasn't the same when he returned, he wasn't as agressive with the puck as normal, Willy held out I think that same season and was totally brutal on his return. Marner was a magician but I think the following season he just did not look as sharp as he always did.

Weather coincidence with their big pay increases or weather because the stern you better play for me Lou Lamoreiello went to the Islanders last season in Feb they literally pissed home ice away from lousy no interest games, this season had a horrible start and many games with uninspired losses to where everyone was on Babs etc and saw a big improvement under Keefer until the honeymoon wore off as people stated and that no effort kicked in again for a tad.

 

[Dekes For Days]

St. Louis Ramped it up Large in Feb of last year when called out went on a huge streak and won the cup.

St Louis went 4-5-2 near the end of February until mid-March last year.

St Louis just went through a 2-7-3 stretch last month.
Washington just went through a 3-7-1 stretch.
Tampa is 0-5-0 in their last 5 games.
Pittsburgh is 0-5-0 in their last 5 games.

Good teams also go through stretches where they struggle. Where they look bad. Where they do the exact same things you complain about with the Leafs.

The Caps ramped it up as well because they had top good reg seasons and coughed and choked in the play offs with some bad luck, I watched their playoff series a few seasons when the Leafs were not in or after a 1st round exit, they played with effort but lost which is acceptable.

Toronto has played with massive effort in every playoff series they have been in, against some of the best teams in the league.

The criticisms of Washington before they won were that they were soft, lazy, not built for the playoffs, etc. It's pretty much the go-to response when people want a narrative instead of the real reasons.

Tampa choked last season their top defense man was hurt and got swept by Columbus but they went into corners for pucks and did not shy away like our team does when they just don't want to play.

Maybe tell Tampa fans that last year, because they certainly didn't think so. Nobody thinks so about their team when they're losing, because there is emotional investment which makes you over-analyze and amplify everything.

Tampa lost on the scoreboard because Columbus played heavy on them and overwhelmed them in every facet of the game because they wanted it more.

Or, alternatively, Columbus loaded up at the deadline, was running off momentum, and faced off against some pretty bad goaltending and a team with key injuries, which can cause a team to win against one of the best assembled teams in modern history over small samples, because that's hockey.

The "they wanted it more" thing is just something people tell themselves to hide the fact that so much of hockey in small samples is affected by randomness and external forces.

In 93 when Toronto had that good playoff run and lost to L.A because of a missed call on Gilmour, I don't recall fans ripping on the team for the loss it was the ref.

If that happened today, the team would be ripped a new one, and nobody would accept "ref" as an excuse.

Am's rookie yr play off against Wash, us fans loved that series the boys gave their all and almost got by them, Nobody ripped on the team because effort all season and play off round was given.

It had nothing to do with effort. People didn't rip on that team because they expected them to be worse, and just being in the playoffs was an accomplishment. It's all relative to expectations, and some people's expectations for this year went completely haywire, which is affecting their ability to rationally evaluate this team that has faced a lot of obstacles that they have never faced.

Secondly big contracts yes matter to fans when they see those players not willing to take a check or show up for alot of games

Our stars have shown up and played hard in every game; willing to take checks. Sometimes, they just don't have it, just like every player on every team. Or, the other team does have it. People can never give the other team credit; it's always us doing something wrong. No player in the league is super-awesome every game. Not Crosby. Not McDavid. Nobody.

Bottom line is everyone has a right to their opinions even the total neg Nancies its called freedom of speech.

Yes, and I have the freedom of speech to counter those ridiculous complaints and feelings with actual facts and reality.

There is no "effort" problem. There is a fan perception and expectation problem.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I’m a pretty positive person who usually trusts the team leadership but it thought Dubas screwed up the backup goalie situation trying to make Sparks work. A big part in our struggles since he was GM is he kept trying to make that work.

"Kept trying to make it work"?

For the first 13 of 20 games last season, Sparks had a positive goals saved above average, and was winning games. When Sparks started dropping off, Hutchinson was brought in. Sparks was off the team in the playoffs and then traded at the end of the year.

Not sure how that's "kept trying to make it work".

 

[ACC1224]

St. Louis Ramped it up Large in Feb of last year when called out went on a huge streak and won the cup.
The Caps ramped it up as well because they had top good reg seasons and coughed and choked in the play offs with some bad luck, I watched their playoff series a few seasons when the Leafs were not in or after a 1st round exit, they played with effort but lost which is acceptable.
Tampa choked last season their top defense man was hurt and got swept by Columbus but they went into corners for pucks and did not shy away like our team does when they just don't want to play. Tampa lost on the scoreboard because Columbus played heavy on them and overwhelmed them in every facet of the game because they wanted it more.

In 93 when Toronto had that good playoff run and lost to L.A because of a missed call on Gilmour, I don't recall fans ripping on the team for the loss it was the ref.

Am's rookie yr play off against Wash, us fans loved that series the boys gave their all and almost got by them, Nobody ripped on the team because effort all season and play off round was given.

Following season round to Bostons loss in Game #7 some fans got edgy because in their opinion certain players disappeared.

Secondly big contracts yes matter to fans when they see those players not willing to take a check or show up for alot of games and nothing can be added because of the cap hit as well. Just because players score goals or assists but fall far short in every other aspect of the game does not make them worth their contract in alot of fans opinions. They want to see an all rounded hockey player. AM and Willy now but more Am is hard in the corners and putting on a beastly display, they both look engaged along with Hyman's play is what is pushing them to success just recent.

Bottom line is everyone has a right to their opinions even the total neg Nancies its called freedom of speech. As for myself I only get angry when I see blatant uninspired hockey, guys unwilling to go to the grey areas and avoiding a hit like the plague and laziness where it looked like a boys club culture creeping in again earlier on.

Many of the good posters and fans on this site felt the same way where they were upset because guys were getting paid well and held out, not contributing to pushing this team to its next level.

I read the game threads after every loss and win and everyone is guilty of being upset with this team when they lost games with a putrid effort or anything else that may have bothered them.

Uninspired play has become the trademark of the Shanahan era.

 

[X66]

I’m a pretty positive person who usually trusts the team leadership but it thought Dubas screwed up the backup goalie situation trying to make Sparks work. A big part in our struggles since he was GM is he kept trying to make that work.

Sometimes he tries to be too clever instead seeing the writing on the wall.

If your biggest complaints are a back-up goalie, then that's not much to complain about IMHO.

In hindsight, those were wrong moves, you are correct.

BUT, at the time, it was the right move.

Sparks at the time was a 24 year-old goalie, coming off a Calder Cup AND AHL goaltender of the year.

McElhinney was 34 years old at the time, you simply cannot let Sparks go at that time, no organization would. You HAVE to see what you have in him.

Pickard was the other goalie that was dumped(lost through waivers) around that time, and he's been even worse than Sparks lol.

I also agree that keeping Hutch as a back-up was the wrong move, but again, the year before he gave the Leafs a .913 save percentage(in 5 games) and outside of his 4 games in Florida, he was never this bad.

Regardless, those are two failures, but in the grand scheme of things are minor.

 

[X66]

St Louis went 4-5-2 near the end of February until mid-March last year.

St Louis just went through a 2-7-3 stretch last month.
Washington just went through a 3-7-1 stretch.
Tampa is 0-5-0 in their last 5 games.
Pittsburgh is 0-5-0 in their last 5 games.

Good teams also go through stretches where they struggle. Where they look bad. Where they do the exact same things you complain about with the Leafs.

Don't you get it?

ONLY THE LEAFS GO THROUGH TOUGH TIMES!

The real truth is, Babcock gave us VERY little room for error, so it made every slump that much worse.

But people really need to understand how well the Leafs have played since Keefe has come on board, the fact that they are in the driver seat for their playoff spot is incredible considering how bad their start was.

 

[mcleex]

Definitely a lot of overreaction by Leafs Nation .. myself included.
Having said that, the whole zambonie goalie thing was an absolute disgrace

 

[blue stick]

Uninspired play has become the trademark of the Shanahan era.

I don’t believe that one iota.

 

[Cobra777]

St Louis went 4-5-2 near the end of February until mid-March last year.

St Louis just went through a 2-7-3 stretch last month.
Washington just went through a 3-7-1 stretch.
Tampa is 0-5-0 in their last 5 games.
Pittsburgh is 0-5-0 in their last 5 games.

Good teams also go through stretches where they struggle. Where they look bad. Where they do the exact same things you complain about with the Leafs.

Toronto has played with massive effort in every playoff series they have been in, against some of the best teams in the league.

The criticisms of Washington before they won were that they were soft, lazy, not built for the playoffs, etc. It's pretty much the go-to response when people want a narrative instead of the real reasons.

Maybe tell Tampa fans that last year, because they certainly didn't think so. Nobody thinks so about their team when they're losing, because there is emotional investment which makes you over-analyze and amplify everything.

Or, alternatively, Columbus loaded up at the deadline, was running off momentum, and faced off against some pretty bad goaltending and a team with key injuries, which can cause a team to win against one of the best assembled teams in modern history over small samples, because that's hockey.

The "they wanted it more" thing is just something people tell themselves to hide the fact that so much of hockey in small samples is affected by randomness and external forces.

If that happened today, the team would be ripped a new one, and nobody would accept "ref" as an excuse.

It had nothing to do with effort. People didn't rip on that team because they expected them to be worse, and just being in the playoffs was an accomplishment. It's all relative to expectations, and some people's expectations for this year went completely haywire, which is affecting their ability to rationally evaluate this team that has faced a lot of obstacles that they have never faced.

Our stars have shown up and played hard in every game; willing to take checks. Sometimes, they just don't have it, just like every player on every team. Or, the other team does have it. People can never give the other team credit; it's always us doing something wrong. No player in the league is super-awesome every game. Not Crosby. Not McDavid. Nobody.

Yes, and I have the freedom of speech to counter those ridiculous complaints and feelings with actual facts and reality.

There is no "effort" problem. There is a fan perception and expectation problem.

Ok, whatever not gonna argue, agree to disagree I'll leave it at that

 

[FraumBallard]

It's true both ways. There are blatant homers in this fan base who can never accept the team has issues. We can let in the first goal every game of the year, and when people freak out about it, there are people in the GDT going "it's just a bad start don't worry about it".

Last week, this team deserved everything they got. The loss to the Zamboni driver and the reaction was not all about one game like so many people pretend. It was a release of pent up frustration going back to last Jan where the Leafs fell into this pattern of low effort games. Jan onwards last season they paced as the 17th best team in the league.

Then they lose to Boston AGAIN, this time having the chance to win in games 6 and 7, say all the right things, the kids get paid big, and we come back to this season with the same problems, same lack of effort.

Ok cool. It's the coach. Fire Babcock and everything is good again. team looks better across the board for a month. And then the same patterns come back into the game.

Jan onwards they had the same record that got Babcock fired. And the team is falling out of a playoff spot, and it seemed no matter how much they talked, the result was the same. Poor efforts almost a week straight led up to that Canes loss. They beat the Pens, talked the talk, and then fell on their faces once again, same pattern for the past year.

So yeah, people let them have it. They told the team in no uncertain terms that they aren't as good as they think they are if they think they can skill their ways to wins. The same message Keefe had been giving for weeks (immature team stuff).

Now they've won 3 in a row. One to a tanking Panthers team, one to a tanking Vancouver team, and one to the Bolts where the third period they essentially were in a shell and barely made it out, and people want to pretend that 3 games erases a year of patterns.

Nah it doesn't to most of us who understand sample sizes and patterns. We need to see this urgency most games, with the poor effort being outliers. Not the other way around. We need to see urgency on defense like we've seen the past few games. We need to see the boys battling hard for pucks like they have been.

I look at the schedule and I see 16 games left. I see a playoff spot there for the taking. I want to see them work for it and earn it, and not fall ass backwords because another team sucked more than us down the stretch.

This is supposed to be a cup team and we haven't seen cup pedigree from them much this year. Maybe this is where they turn things around, but one thing is clear to me. Those who pretend there are no problems that are concerning for a supposed cup bound team after they win a game or two are no different than those who think the sky is falling after a bad game. Two sides of the same coin.

It's true both ways. There are blatant homers in this fan base who can never accept the team has issues. We can let in the first goal every game of the year, and when people freak out about it, there are people in the GDT going "it's just a bad start don't worry about it".

Last week, this team deserved everything they got. The loss to the Zamboni driver and the reaction was not all about one game like so many people pretend. It was a release of pent up frustration going back to last Jan where the Leafs fell into this pattern of low effort games. Jan onwards last season they paced as the 17th best team in the league.

Then they lose to Boston AGAIN, this time having the chance to win in games 6 and 7, say all the right things, the kids get paid big, and we come back to this season with the same problems, same lack of effort.

Ok cool. It's the coach. Fire Babcock and everything is good again. team looks better across the board for a month. And then the same patterns come back into the game.

Jan onwards they had the same record that got Babcock fired. And the team is falling out of a playoff spot, and it seemed no matter how much they talked, the result was the same. Poor efforts almost a week straight led up to that Canes loss. They beat the Pens, talked the talk, and then fell on their faces once again, same pattern for the past year.

So yeah, people let them have it. They told the team in no uncertain terms that they aren't as good as they think they are if they think they can skill their ways to wins. The same message Keefe had been giving for weeks (immature team stuff).

Now they've won 3 in a row. One to a tanking Panthers team, one to a tanking Vancouver team, and one to the Bolts where the third period they essentially were in a shell and barely made it out, and people want to pretend that 3 games erases a year of patterns.

Nah it doesn't to most of us who understand sample sizes and patterns. We need to see this urgency most games, with the poor effort being outliers. Not the other way around. We need to see urgency on defense like we've seen the past few games. We need to see the boys battling hard for pucks like they have been.

I look at the schedule and I see 16 games left. I see a playoff spot there for the taking. I want to see them work for it and earn it, and not fall ass backwords because another team sucked more than us down the stretch.

This is supposed to be a cup team and we haven't seen cup pedigree from them much this year. Maybe this is where they turn things around, but one thing is clear to me. Those who pretend there are no problems that are concerning for a supposed cup bound team after they win a game or two are no different than those who think the sky is falling after a bad game. Two sides of the same coin.

Superior post.
Fully agree.
Well said.

 

[Hotel Mario]

If anything, there's underreaction to the Leafs struggles.

 

[ottomaddox]

Unfortunately we seem to have two groups in that midst. One is essentially full time trolls (or so it would appear). I guess I at least get their thing. The other is folks seeming to wish for negative and complaining about it. That I don't get. It really isn't hard to switch teams or sports. Stockholm syndrome?

I see three maybe four groups of people.

1. Vancouver Fans who envy everything we are as a city and as a hockey organization.

2. Fans who love everything leafs: current GM, Players, Equipment Managers, etc. They defend everyone to no end, and all criticism is considered "bashing". They also seem to comment on the refereeing most nights.

3. People who want to own ("pwn") the internet, win every debate, put people down, use expressions like "lmao"/"lol"/"flawed", find an underlying stat or narrative to hang their hats on. These people don't seem to respect varied opinions at all.

4. Those that give or are good at constructive criticism. Perhaps they are perceived as bashing or fans of other teams because they are quick to criticize. In a way they probably care for TOR more than the cheerleader fans.

IMHO

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I am not sure anything this year can be considered a over reaction unless it is among our top six forwards who have carried this team. I will give the injuries at this point room for any poster to use as a excuse. We have had significant injuries. They can’t be ignored.

That all said, there is a accumulation of many many things posters can be out right angry at. The bottom six on this roster has not carried its weight or thrown its weight around enough, they have provided no energy most of the time.

Our top guys have been great! The defense has been hampered with injuries to the veterans and the new guys have done ok under the circumstances. We need to get more physicality and energy bottom six in the future. Kerfoot is not a fit and neither is Barrie. Letsjust cut losses on those two and move on. The ease with which Kerfoot is knocked off pucks is kind of sickening. Barrie wants a big raise that we neither can or should want to afford. He’s just not good enough defensively. The young defense need some veteran help when everyone is healthy.

I think it is a underachieving team caused by the make up of the roster with to many fly by stick checkers and basically i am calling them players that just don’t want to pay the price to win or can’t. No matter what we can call it, this roster has to change to a more energetic physical brand in general.

Top players have carried the rest. Thats not good and i am saying that with quite a sample size to go off of. They deserve criticism and most posters are really fair in the way they do their criticism of this team.

 

[nsleaf]

I see three maybe four groups of people.

1. Vancouver Fans who envy everything we are as a city and as a hockey organization.

2. Fans who love everything leafs: current GM, Players, Equipment Managers, etc. They defend everyone to no end, and all criticism is considered "bashing". They also seem to comment on the refereeing most nights.

3. People who want to own ("pwn") the internet, win every debate, put people down, use expressions like "lmao"/"lol"/"flawed", find an underlying stat or narrative to hang their hats on. These people don't seem to respect varied opinions at all.

4. Those that give or are good at constructive criticism. Perhaps they are perceived as bashing or fans of other teams because they are quick to criticize. In a way they probably care for TOR more than the cheerleader fans.

IMHO

5. Those that are all of the above.

 

[ottomaddox]

Someone post a rapid fire panic button gif.

I'm freaking out!

 

[ThaiTanicDK]

Of course not. The toronto fans are the most rational fan base in sports.