Do we have our 1-2 punch down the middle?

[Wami]

I see Kadri being our number #1 centre probably peaking about 3 years from now, and perhaps get the C, definitely an "A". Then getting traded in either 4 or 5 years. Being then replaced by Marner entering his prime. Nylander will probably be a winger, and we'll have some unforeseen combination of players down the middle that nobody could have predicted. Kadri will then go on to win two cups on that team that he got traded to, while famously eliminating us from a playoff series by scoring a hat trick to overcome a game 7 deficit that breaks the record Boston set against us. Bernier then breaks his stick over the net while the camera does a close up of Gardiner's blank thousand-yard stare, which fans will never forget. Naz will shortly thereafter get bought out (about 8 or 9 years from now) after his skill and compete level completely disappears. Not before numerous drug scandals and run-ins with the law completely tarnish his image. And at that time we'll all sit back and wonder what could have been if we didn't trade him away. We might have had a cup by 2025. Instead we'll have an aging Marner who has been plagued by injuries and an overweight Nylander (with an inflated contract - negotiated by the revered player-agent Kyle Wellwood).


Or am I the only one who sees that coming?

 

[Mess]

help me out here mess

name me the last guys that did not play and dominate as Cs before being drafted, then get "converted to C and actually have the kind of carriers we will need from our 1/2.

I don't mean just in leaf past, I mean in the entire NHL.

I frankly can't think of any.

It be very small list.

It be like someone going to medical school to become a doctor and then graduating and coming out a lawyer.

Unless your are constantly working on face-offs and defensive coverage, and responsibilities and learning the position in junior I'm not sure how you get good at it at the NHL level. The position is so much more difficult to play than the wing. When you factor in size it changes the picture even more.. You have to go head to head against the best centers in the NHL and battle them down low in your zone or stand in front of the opposition net and screen the goalie and battle opposing dmen. Smaller players tend to play more on the perimeter and out of the heavy traffic areas to avoid direct contact from bigger players and that is why they play the wing most often in the NHL.

I believe some people think the difference between being a center and a winger is that one skates up and down the middle of the ice and the other one along the boards.

 

[MapleLife*]

Nylander - Stamkos - Marner
JVR - Matthews - Brown

Theres our 1-2 punch

 

[ULF_55]

What happened to all the Nylander is a center talk from earlier this year in the AHL?

Marner
Nylander
Gauthier
Scrubb

That's the strength down the middle they need to have to be a contender for the Cup.

Marner - elite
Nylander - 1st. liner
Gauther - elite 3rd. line shut down center
Scrubb - player 8 - 10 minutes a night.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

What happened to all the Nylander is a center talk from earlier this year in the AHL?

Marner
Nylander
Gauthier
Scrubb

That's the strength down the middle they need to have to be a contender for the Cup.

Marner - elite
Nylander - 1st. liner
Gauther - elite 3rd. line shut down center
Scrubb - player 8 - 10 minutes a night.

Right now we have no guaranteed 1-2 punch down the middle. It's great to talk and dream of Marner and Nylander being elite Centers one day, but it takes years to develop this. And both are not even playing Center in a developmental league. Look at Kadri, he's 25, 5 and 6 years older than Marner and Nylander. And we are still waiting on him to arrive as a good center that is capable of playing a major role on a good team.

There are few guarantees plans a and b will turn out perfect. Heck of the 9 picks yesterday, how many play in a Leafs uniform? 4, 5, 6? If its the latter we are laughing. Not all prospects will make the NHL or even their ceilings.

 

[Stephen]

help me out here mess

name me the last guys that did not play and dominate as Cs before being drafted, then get "converted to C and actually have the kind of carriers we will need from our 1/2.

I don't mean just in leaf past, I mean in the entire NHL.

I frankly can't think of any.

Vincent Damphousse was drafted as a LW and evolved into a C. Henrik Zetterberg was a LW and has also evolved into a C.

 

[Stephen]

Right now we have no guaranteed 1-2 punch down the middle. It's great to talk and dream of Marner and Nylander being elite Centers one day, but it takes years to develop this. And both are not even playing Center in a developmental league. Look at Kadri, he's 25, 5 and 6 years older than Marner and Nylander. And we are still waiting on him to arrive as a good center that is capable of playing a major role on a good team.

There are few guarantees plans a and b will turn out perfect. Heck of the 9 picks yesterday, how many play in a Leafs uniform? 4, 5, 6? If its the latter we are laughing. Not all prospects will make the NHL or even their ceilings.

Right now, we have two bluechippers who fill top six roles on the future Leafs, and most likely 2 of the top three forward spots. If we can draft a big center next year with a lottery pick, I'm pretty comfortable knowing we have three anchors at the top of the lineup in place, to be distributed on the top two lines as necessary, and whatever other forwards we draft, sign or trade for can help fill out the rest of the top nine.

 

[ULF_55]

Right now we have no guaranteed 1-2 punch down the middle. It's great to talk and dream of Marner and Nylander being elite Centers one day, but it takes years to develop this. And both are not even playing Center in a developmental league. Look at Kadri, he's 25, 5 and 6 years older than Marner and Nylander. And we are still waiting on him to arrive as a good center that is capable of playing a major role on a good team.

There are few guarantees plans a and b will turn out perfect. Heck of the 9 picks yesterday, how many play in a Leafs uniform? 4, 5, 6? If its the latter we are laughing. Not all prospects will make the NHL or even their ceilings.

Of course there are no guarantees, even with players physically mature.

We have to believe everything is going to work out but they have to prepare as if everything will go to poop.

 

[ULF_55]

Right now, we have two bluechippers who fill top six roles on the future Leafs, and most likely 2 of the top three forward spots. If we can draft a big center next year with a lottery pick, I'm pretty comfortable knowing we have three anchors at the top of the lineup in place, to be distributed on the top two lines as necessary, and whatever other forwards we draft, sign or trade for can help fill out the rest of the top nine.

I would hope Shanahan isn't basing his plan on winning the lottery and getting the required piece(s) to build a winner via being bad and lucky.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Marner/Nylander have no problems matching up against other teams top line. Johnson line had no problem doing that vs NYR and Chicago, and likely wouldn't be a problem for us.

Oh and we do have a 1C and 1D, potentially. I don't have to tell you who it is because it's pretty obvious.

I think we need to add another defenseman to help Rielly out on that top pairing, while I think he may be capable of playing it, we will need to add.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Vincent Damphousse was drafted as a LW and evolved into a C. Henrik Zetterberg was a LW and has also evolved into a C.

Hard to remember at which point they switched but:

Giroux
Messier
Kurri
Backes
Hayes
Benn (now back to wing but did well at C)

Pre-draft there was this guy:

In 1954 he was runner-up for the Hart Memorial Trophy and won the James Norris Memorial Trophy as the NHL's top defenceman. Imlach asked him to become a full-time centre. The switch paid off. Already a great playmaker, he turned Frank Mahovlich into one of the most lethal goal scorers in NHL history. He won his fourth Lady Byng Award in 1961. In his eight seasons with the Leafs, they won the Stanley Cup four times – the same number of times he'd won in Detroit.

In 1,316 regular season games, he scored 281 goals and 542 assists for 823 points. At the time of his retirement, he was seventh all time in career points, fifth in assists, 13th in goals, and second only to Gordie Howe in games played.

 

[Incetardis]

Not likely... 1 or both will end up better suited on the wing. Still searching for a blue chip center prospect IMO. Would've loved if they landed the 16th pick from Edmonton and drafted Barzal. A little underwhelmed with their draft day as a whole considering it was such an important draft in terms of kickstarting the rebuild

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Of course there are no guarantees, even with players physically mature.

We have to believe everything is going to work out but they have to prepare as if everything will go to poop.

I wonder how many people will remember this photo?

He was supposed to be a Center when he was drafted. Playing Center in the NHL, no guarantees until they do it.

http://bruins.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8473548&view=news

 

[Stephen]

Hard to remember at which point they switched but:

Giroux
Messier
Kurri
Backes
Hayes
Benn (now back to wing but did well at C)

Pre-draft there was this guy:

In 1954 he was runner-up for the Hart Memorial Trophy and won the James Norris Memorial Trophy as the NHL's top defenceman. Imlach asked him to become a full-time centre. The switch paid off. Already a great playmaker, he turned Frank Mahovlich into one of the most lethal goal scorers in NHL history. He won his fourth Lady Byng Award in 1961. In his eight seasons with the Leafs, they won the Stanley Cup four times – the same number of times he'd won in Detroit.

In 1,316 regular season games, he scored 281 goals and 542 assists for 823 points. At the time of his retirement, he was seventh all time in career points, fifth in assists, 13th in goals, and second only to Gordie Howe in games played.

Oh yeah that's right, Mark Messier. Perfect example.

 

[HockeyAndWings]

If you consider top teams like ANA with Getzlaf and Kesler or LA with Kopitar, Brown, and Carter who are big and skilled centres, and consider other teams' prospects like BUF with Eichel and Reinhart forming their 1-2 punch down the middle.

Even if Marner and Nylander were to form our 1-2 punch down the middle, there's still a need for improvement in terms of more skilled and bigger centers and more depth being required down the middle.

 

[Stephen]

I would hope Shanahan isn't basing his plan on winning the lottery and getting the required piece(s) to build a winner via being bad and lucky.

If he's gutting the team this summer, finishing low in the standings is simply a reality.

 

[MapleLife*]

I would hope Shanahan isn't basing his plan on winning the lottery and getting the required piece(s) to build a winner via being bad and lucky.

I would hope that would be plan A.
I also hope that theres a plan B though

 

[MapleLife*]

If you consider top teams like ANA with Getzlaf and Kesler or LA with Kopitar, Brown, and Carter who are big and skilled centres, and consider other teams' prospects like BUF with Eichel and Reinhart forming their 1-2 punch down the middle.

Even if Marner and Nylander were to form our 1-2 punch down the middle, there's still a need for improvement in terms of more skilled and bigger centers and more depth being required down the middle.

Yup.

Even with Marner/Nylander/Kadri/gauthier/Holland/Carrick, I am not comfortable with our center depth going forward

 

[Pyrophorus]

How about Yes

 

[hfdshdh]

If you consider top teams like ANA with Getzlaf and Kesler or LA with Kopitar, Brown, and Carter who are big and skilled centres, and consider other teams' prospects like BUF with Eichel and Reinhart forming their 1-2 punch down the middle.

Even if Marner and Nylander were to form our 1-2 punch down the middle, there's still a need for improvement in terms of more skilled and bigger centers and more depth being required down the middle.

Do you not see the obvious counter-argument staring you right in the face?

Like, come on. Think about it. There's plenty of hints throughout this five-page thread.

 

[cheeeko]

If you consider top teams like ANA with Getzlaf and Kesler or LA with Kopitar, Brown, and Carter who are big and skilled centres, and consider other teams' prospects like BUF with Eichel and Reinhart forming their 1-2 punch down the middle.

Even if Marner and Nylander were to form our 1-2 punch down the middle, there's still a need for improvement in terms of more skilled and bigger centers and more depth being required down the middle.

Brown isn't a centre.

And there's no blueprint that defines how to build a team.

And both of those teams failed this year.

Stamkos is 6 foot. Tyler Johnson is a small human to be playing centre.

Some of the best centres on the planet are 5'11-6'1. It's nbd.

I don't think they're both centres. I think one will be, and I think it's Marner. I also think he and Nylander would be awesome playing together one day.

 

[HockeyAndWings]

It be very small list.

It be like someone going to medical school to become a doctor and then graduating and coming out a lawyer.

Unless your are constantly working on face-offs and defensive coverage, and responsibilities and learning the position in junior I'm not sure how you get good at it at the NHL level. The position is so much more difficult to play than the wing. When you factor in size it changes the picture even more.. You have to go head to head against the best centers in the NHL and battle them down low in your zone or stand in front of the opposition net and screen the goalie and battle opposing dmen. Smaller players tend to play more on the perimeter and out of the heavy traffic areas to avoid direct contact from bigger players and that is why they play the wing most often in the NHL.

I believe some people think the difference between being a center and a winger is that one skates up and down the middle of the ice and the other one along the boards.

Ideally, a center will be good at faceoffs, be excellent offensively, have good size so that we can maintain possession in the opposition zone/get in front of the opposition net and screen the opposition net while battling the opposition defenders, and help the defenders in our own zone.

It's still possible to have a decent sized center who is good at faceoffs and can produce offensively, while helping out in the defensive zone, but some of the other responsibilities of the center will have to be carried out by one of the wingers.

A large winger like JVR could battle in front of the net and screen the opposition goalie, while helping maintaining possession in the opposition zone, while Marner as a 1C would help our defenders in our own zone and defensive coverage with his speed, so some of the center's responsibilities would have to be shared and distributed with the other wingers, but if a decent sized center is going to work with this team, we're going to need a large winger that can play alongside the center on the same line for each line.

 

[Menzinger]

It be very small list.

It be like someone going to medical school to become a doctor and then graduating and coming out a lawyer.

Unless your are constantly working on face-offs and defensive coverage, and responsibilities and learning the position in junior I'm not sure how you get good at it at the NHL level. The position is so much more difficult to play than the wing. When you factor in size it changes the picture even more.. You have to go head to head against the best centers in the NHL and battle them down low in your zone or stand in front of the opposition net and screen the goalie and battle opposing dmen. Smaller players tend to play more on the perimeter and out of the heavy traffic areas to avoid direct contact from bigger players and that is why they play the wing most often in the NHL.

I believe some people think the difference between being a center and a winger is that one skates up and down the middle of the ice and the other one along the boards.

Why do you think Mark Hunter feels that Marner will develop into a centre? He seems to know quite a bit about developing hockey players

 

[HockeyAndWings]

Yup.

Even with Marner/Nylander/Kadri/gauthier/Holland/Carrick, I am not comfortable with our center depth going forward

I'm hoping that Marner becomes the franchise center that this team has been lacking for a long time.

I'm in agreement, I don't think our center depth is good enough right now, and is still an area that will need to be improved in the future.

 

[Pyrophorus]

I wonder how many people will remember this photo?

He was supposed to be a Center when he was drafted. Playing Center in the NHL, no guarantees until they do it.

http://bruins.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8473548&view=news

He was THE C at UMinn