Do we have our 1-2 punch down the middle?

[HockeyAndWings]

I wonder how many people will remember this photo?

He was supposed to be a Center when he was drafted. Playing Center in the NHL, no guarantees until they do it.

http://bruins.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8473548&view=news

Kessel is not a C, and for good reason. Kessel picks up his defensive play during the playoffs and when the games matter, but Kessel is not a defensive stalwart by any means, nor is Kessel a big player that likes to come into contact with other players or has the size to be a good possession player.

When you're not a 2-way player or a possession player it's very difficult to be an effective center.

 

[ConnorTO]

ugh i dont think mitchell is a center

 

[Trapper]

Kessel is not a C, and for good reason. Kessel picks up his defensive play during the playoffs and when the games matter, but Kessel is not a defensive stalwart by any means, nor is Kessel a big player that likes to come into contact with other players or has the size to be a good possession player.

When you're not a 2-way player or a possession player it's very difficult to be an effective center.

Being a center is hard work and you have a lot more responsibility.

 

[PuckMagi]

Stamkos - Kadri - Holland - Gauthier

Might not even need Nylander and Marner to be centers.

 

[HockeyAndWings]

ugh i dont think mitchell is a center

Marner doesn't have to be a possession player, but if he wants to be a center at the NHL level, he is going to need to have a good 2-way game in addition to being good on faceoffs and being able to produce offensively and have good vision.

 

[dubey]

ugh i dont think mitchell is a center

ugh he is

 

[MapleLife*]

Stamkos - Kadri - Holland - Gauthier

Might not even need Nylander and Marner to be centers.

You mean Stamkos - Matthews - Holland - Goat

 

[Backhandshelf81]

Marner doesn't have to be a possession player, but if he wants to be a center at the NHL level, he is going to need to have a good 2-way game in addition to being good on faceoffs

List of centers not good at faceoffs: Malkin, Seguin, Johnson, RNH, Stepan, Zibanejad, Scheifele, Nielsen, Girgensons, Bjugstad, Couture, Granlund

All had sub-50 FO%.. some were especially poor. Malkin with 42% FO. And yet, several of those guys were, still, rightfully considered proper two-way players. Doesn't matter if you win faceoffs if you don't have any hockey sense to know what to do afterward.

 

[91Kadri91*]

Marner doesn't have to be a possession player, but if he wants to be a center at the NHL level, he is going to need to have a good 2-way game in addition to being good on faceoffs and being able to produce offensively and have good vision.

Marner is a possession player.

 

[Jtabo]

Could see them being like Datsyuk (Marner) and Zetterberg (Nylander). Datsyuk being the franchise center and Zetterberg being the elite winger who can play center at times if needed. Also think you will see them play apart more than together.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Marner and Nylander will be Bab's next Datsyuk and Zetterberg (I hope)

Yeah, I hope so as well. And some times Z is on Dats left wing and some times he is centering his own line. Depending on match-ups, injuries etc. I can see something like that. Then who switches to wing at timer if not both I dont know.
Nylanders game seem to be that of a center who controls the play even do he can play effectively as a winger to. Marner on the other hand is also a natural C, imo, but he is a bit more gritty and active and could do well on the wing as well.

Best thing is probably to separate them until we really need a goal or for when we have a PP. That way both players can be the main guy on their line setting up his line mates, controlling the play, like they both want to do. They both want to be the difference maker. Keeping them separated with one line each but also give them time to develop together for emergencies late in games when we need goals will allow them to become those difference makers.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

ugh i dont think mitchell is a center

I guess Strome won't be a centre either. Marner is probably among the best in his own zone within the top 10. If he's a winger, it won't have much do with defensive ability but rather coaching preference.

Hossa is an elite defensive forward despite being a winger.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Johnson 5'9"
Duchene 5'11"
Crosby 5'11"
Giroux 5'11"
Datsyuk 5'11"
Zetterberg 6´
Tavares 6´
Stamkos 6´
Backstrom 6´


Are just some of the 1st line centers who dont have "the size" to be first line centers...

I am perfectly fine with both Marner and Nylander as our top 2 centers. Brains, wheels, hands and attitude is way more important than anything else and our kids gots lots of it all.

 

[Joey24]

I really think Logan Brown is going to beast this season. Guy has all the tools to be a franchise player

Imagine coming away from the draft with Chychrun and Brown. It would be a dream come true if Toronto walked away with both these guys.. Picking Chychrun with their top3-4 pick and drafting Brown with a pick they pickup in the 13-10 range if his draft stock doesn't rise and he goes where most mocks have him in and around the 12-13 range. I expect he's a top 6 pick tho.

 

[Mess]

Hunter seems to believe that Marner can be developed into a center in the future.

However that was in response to a question about the team needing centers and his draft strategy so he might have said that simply to douse the flames as the reporter was asking about team needs.

You have to be defensively inclined to play center so Marner has teh better odds of becoming one over Nylander who is not seen as having much of defensive 2-way game.

 

[IWD]

Hunter seems to believe that Marner can be developed into a center in the future.

However that was in response to a question about the team needing centers and his draft strategy so he might have said that simply to douse the flames as the reporter was asking about team needs.

You have to be defensively inclined to play center so Marner has teh better odds of becoming one over Nylander who is not seen as having much of defensive 2-way game.

Doesn't he? I read somewhere here that his two-way game has become very good.

 

[Mess]

Doesn't he? I read somewhere here that his two-way game has become very good.

All players are expected to backcheck to some degree but the responsibilities of a winger are much less than a center and that is why some players end up at that position due simply to not being defensively inclined. Players that are wired for offense tend to prefer to play better with the puck than without it.

Nylander's skillset is he is offensively talented and Leafs played Willie almost entirely as a winger in the AHL last year.

 

[WTFMAN99]

All players are expected to backcheck to some degree but the responsibilities of a winger are much less than a center and that is why some players end up at that position due simply to not being defensively inclined. Players that are wired for offense tend to prefer to play better with the puck than without it.

Nylander's skillset is he is offensively talented and Leafs played Willie almost entirely as a winger in the AHL last year.

Nylander did play well at centre though in the SHL, along with the few shifts he got at the World Jrs.

The other thing that I suspect happened with Nylander is, he's an 18 year old kid who just came to North America and you have an AHL team in the middle of trying to make it to the playoffs, may not have wanted to rock the boat and put him on the wing as that is easiest.

I think if he is back in the AHL next year, you may as well play him at centre, let him develop his game as a centre in North America, if you see it isn't working, cease and go back to wing with him, or if its working, that is huge for us going forward. Can't really lose.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Kessel is not a C, and for good reason. Kessel picks up his defensive play during the playoffs and when the games matter, but Kessel is not a defensive stalwart by any means, nor is Kessel a big player that likes to come into contact with other players or has the size to be a good possession player.

When you're not a 2-way player or a possession player it's very difficult to be an effective center.

All I am saying is its not an easy position to play at the NHL level. This is why wingers that also may play Center are no guarantees.

JVR also played Center in College at New Hampshire to as well as Kessel at U of Minnesota.

Both are wingers now at the NHL level, both have tried to play Center at the NHL level to mixed results.

Let's play Nylander and Marner where they are comfortable, at this point it looks like on the wing. If they show otherwise, then it's a win for us, otherwise we let them excel on the wing. Just like JVR and Kessel are much better on the wing.

Playing Center in a developmental league is much different than playing Center in the NHL. Much less being an elite one.

 

[ACC1224]

Marner as the next Datsuyk is something I've been told for a couple years now.

 

[Mess]

Nylander did play well at centre though in the SHL, along with the few shifts he got at the World Jrs.

The other thing that I suspect happened with Nylander is, he's an 18 year old kid who just came to North America and you have an AHL team in the middle of trying to make it to the playoffs, may not have wanted to rock the boat and put him on the wing as that is easiest.

I think if he is back in the AHL next year, you may as well play him at centre, let him develop his game as a centre in North America, if you see it isn't working, cease and go back to wing with him, or if its working, that is huge for us going forward. Can't really lose.

Its often more about style then anything else.

When drafted Nylander had a reputation of playing more an individual game then a team game, holding the puck and not using his teammates enough.

A center has to be a puck distributor to make his wingers more effective and while Nylander can make plays he tends to think the game more as the one that wants to score the goals and dangle with the puck and that leans more towards playing the wing and being the finisher for a playmaking center.

Marner on the other hand is a great puck distributor, and thinks the game at a level where he is often a few steps ahead of his teammates and as such more inclined to become a center in the future than Nylander. This being able to anticipate the play is not only useful offensively, but also helps without the puck defensively, knowing where your assignments are without the puck in defensive zone coverage and anticipating the opposition moves as the play unfolds to be able to make proper reads and reacts to break up plays and regain puck possession.

The draw back of both at present is size and strength and with development, fitness and diet over the next few years they will get stronger as they fill out and mature.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Its often more about style then anything else.

When drafted Nylander had a reputation of playing more an individual game then a team game, holding the puck and not using his teammates enough.

A center has to be a puck distributor to make his wingers more effective and while Nylander can make plays he tends to think the game more as the one that wants to score the goals and dangle with the puck and that leans more towards playing the wing and being the finisher for a playmaking center.

Marner on the other hand is a great puck distributor, and thinks the game at a level where he is often a few steps ahead of his teammates and as such more inclined to become a center in the future than Nylander. This being able to anticipate the play is not only useful offensively, but also helps without the puck defensively, knowing where your assignments are without the puck in defensive zone coverage and anticipating the opposition moves as the play unfolds to be able to make proper reads and reacts to break up plays and regain puck possession.

The draw back of both at present is size and strength and with development, fitness and diet over the next few years they will get stronger as they fill out and mature.

SHL - 21GP - 20 pts, 12 assists
AHL- 37GP - 32 pts, 18 assists
World JRs - 7GP, 10 pts, 7 assists

Seems to have more assists. Nylander has excellent vision...and having seen him play a lot (live) I can tell you his passing game is ridiculous.

I feel like what you have here is a scouting report before Nylander was drafted.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I have to say.

This thread is ironic, we could have drafted an outright Center this draft. The only way today to get a possible #1 franchise Center. And we are still having these debates of where is our #1 and #2 Center. Draft them.

Some of us made a case for Strome, Barzal, Zacha, and last year even Larkin. And sure Mcdavid, Eichel and Strome were picked before we got a shot at taking them. But it looks like we will be talking about drafting that ellusive number Center till next draft all over again.

Now for people saying Marner or Nylander are sure fire Centers in the NHL, just remember Kessel and JVR played Center in College before they were drafted. There are No guarantees.

This is why I rate Centers higher in drafts. They are hard to find. So if they are available, you get them.

 

[Mess]

SHL - 21GP - 20 pts, 12 assists
AHL- 37GP - 32 pts, 18 assists
World JRs - 7GP, 10 pts, 7 assists

Seems to have more assists. Nylander has excellent vision...and having seen him play a lot (live) I can tell you his passing game is ridiculous.

I feel like what you have here is a scouting report before Nylander was drafted.

You can have playmaking wingers also, and most players have more assists than goals in their stat totals. Can you think of many players that have more goals than assists in a year?

Kessel as more assists then goals every year, but it doesn't make him a center even though he was drafted as one and played it in junior and at college. He is considered a finisher and goal scorer first and foremost as he is among the NHL leaders in shots on net in a year.

Assists and puck distributing is only a part of the offensive side of the game.. To be a center face-off ability and winning % is vital to play the position.. If you can't win 45-55% of your face-offs in comparison to other centers then your simply giving the opposition puck possession in all zones. A player that plays wing regularly doesn't take draws and as such is not getting better at that skill. Becoming proficient in the dot comes with practice, experience and through repetitions. Its not a skill set that all players can master to be effective at winning them. Becoming a #1C requires you not only to win them but doing it against the best in the business when you go head to head.

Defensive zone coverage and responsibility is night and day between a center and a winger also, so you have to be highly motivated to play well without the puck and aggressively backcheck to help out your defense or they will be outnumbered on the attack. You most often have to be the 1st forward back on the play when puck possession is lost as your main defensive responsibility in our own zone is the opposition center on the attack. So good 2-way centers hustle back defensive without the puck as well as they play with the puck offensively.

 

[ULF_55]

Marner-Bozak-Kessel
van Riemsdyk-Kadri-Nylander

1-2 punch

And you don't have to tank or trade for anyone!